Steeping Times and an Ultrasonic Cleaner Part III

[dannyv45]

Take it how you will, but I think posting my experience may help other not make the same mistake.

I'm so sorry for your mishap and wish you'd had read my blog on steeping. Airing out is airing out or letting a mix breath. Steeping is mixing the flavor molecules with the base and are both seperate procedures and should never be combined or done at the same time. I find non alcohol mixes rarely need airing out. Some perfumey TFA flavors benefit from an airing. You should never steep with the cap off.

 

[dannyv45]

A lot of people dilute their VG with DW anyway (10-30%).
Even if tap water was used the condensate formed on the underside of the lid is basically distilled water.

Just an idea:
You can evaporate some of the water if you pour a bottle into a wider container, low heat, and gentle stirring.
Needs large surface area of exposed liquid to work best, and no open flames.
Keep under 150 F.
I read that VG will even suck moisture out of the air so...

I think the problem in the OP's case is not that water got into the mix but that some of the flavoring molecules evaporated. There's not much that can be done to save the mix in that case unless they have some of the flavoring concentrate on hand and know the recipe.

@ OP

I understand your fustration and I would not try to save these mixes it will only add to your fustration. Go knowing that your experience will help others avoid this costly mistake and it was not all for nothing. Many of us here know failure by the amount of failed mixture attempts that have gone down the drain.

 

[rowdyplace]

I asked my son, the chemist, about this and he explained that the ageing/steeping process had already included the water molecules and went on talking for 4 more minutes (all way over my head) to effectively say...

vape it if you can or dump it...That water ain't coming out...

What he said very much agrees with Danny's last post...

 

[Snipe]

Interestingly enough, I actually like uc steeping with lids off. Really seems to speed the process for flavors tha take a while to develop.

 

[dannyv45]

Interestingly enough, I actually like uc steeping with lids off. Really seems to speed the process for flavors tha take a while to develop.

As long as you understand what's happening during this process and the differences between airing and steeping then to each his own.

 

[Snipe]

Yeah - I don't do it for long, but give it a couple hours, lid open, top off to hopefully allow some of the alcohol flavor to escape. If this is particularly dumb, please let me know.

 

[jonhall2]

i joined the forum when i got interested in diy. i have been working on developing a clone recipe since may and am finally satisfied with the result. my new method of making juice works very well. i have found that flavors contain varying amounts of ethanol. to remedy this i use a uc heated to 140F to mix my base. run three 8 min cycles and let it sit in the bath until cool. once out of the water i open the bottle and let it breathe for 4 hours to let excess ethanol escape. then i steep the base until needed. i use the same process when i make base into juice. drip some of the result to see if it needs more air or just steep 24-48 hrs. i have identified the flavors that give me ethanol problems. i first thought i would decant the problem flavoring to a smaller bottle and let it breathe but opted to breathe/steep the entire base instead. get all the flavors introduced and adjusted to jump start the rest of the process. make 10ml samples of juice from base to know when it has had enough air. once the base is ready, its very easy to consistently make ready to vape juice in little as 24hrs. the amount of heat applied and length of time exposed does little to oxidate/possibly degrade the nicotine. that occurs easily enough on its own through normal steeping. in the case of single flavor juice that knowingly contains excess ethanol, i suggest breathing the flavor alone before making into juice. i wouldn't air out more flavoring than i could use in 6 mos. i feel the ethanol also acts as a flavor preservative.

 

[HappiVappi]

i joined the forum when i got interested in diy. i have been working on developing a clone recipe since may and am finally satisfied with the result. my new method ....

It appears to me you did not really read the previous 158 pages nor the previous 2 chapters of this thread, did you?

Cheers.

 

[Mone415]

It appears to me you did not really read the previous 158 pages nor the previous 2 chapters of this thread, did you?

Cheers.

Whatever works for him. If he found a way he likes tuh do it i don't c the problem with that. U ain't gotta be a thread snob.

 

[rowdyplace]

It appears to me you did not really read the previous 158 pages nor the previous 2 chapters of this thread, did you?

Cheers.

You said it (correctly), brother...

 

[jonhall2]

It appears to me you did not really read the previous 158 pages nor the previous 2 chapters of this thread, did you?

Cheers.

Is there a particular post in this thread that I should read? If so, please find it and advise me of what I am missing here.

 

[jonhall2]

What really bugs me is that folks believe they have to uc juice four hours and apply excess heat for long periods of time to fast steep. I used to work for the man that invented the laboratory bottle washer. It became the UC. Most people wouldn't believe lab glassware would be sterilized in the first three seconds after the machine was turned on. therefore they installed a timer that would do the job in eight minutes. do you see where i am going or you may need to read post 1587. Otherwise you may be wasting your time.

 

[buffaloguy]

What really bugs me is that folks believe they have to uc juice four hours and apply excess heat for long periods of time to fast steep. I used to work for the man that invented the laboratory bottle washer. It became the UC. Most people wouldn't believe lab glassware would be sterilized in the first three seconds after the machine was turned on. therefore they installed a timer that would do the job in eight minutes. do you see where i am going or you may need to read post 1587. Otherwise you may be wasting your time.

Thats great but steeping juice in a UC or crockpot has nothing to do with sterilizing anything. The reactions needed for steeping are caused by low constant temperature.

You can say whatever you like but hundreds of test results dont lie. If you dont see the benefit of it, thats fine. You have your way of doing things that works for you. So do that, and dont bother those who have invested time, careful planning with A sample, B sample, Control sample testing. If you want to close of your mind just because you think "it cant be so" then thats your choice. You are just missing out on techniques to make better juice. If you are satisfied with the stuff you make then good, you're done here.

You really shouldnt walk into a thread and call it "bunk" until you've read it, and maybe sometimes having tested it yourself.

The info in this thread has justified itself thru countless hundreds of tests. I did extensive testing (over 6 months) just to come up with the 150° steeping theory using a crockpot for 4 hours. All on my own before I even released the info to ECF. It works and tons of mixers and test results agree. Nuff said.

And also in regards to nic degradation, that has been discussed as well. What you think you know about it... from the tone of post #1587 is likely incorrect.

 

[dannyv45]

Is there a particular post in this thread that I should read? If so, please find it and advise me of what I am missing here.

Quite honestly you may not have read the whole thread but what you did read did give you enough to get going. I personally don't see a problem with what your doing.

You are warming the the mix for a very short time
removing it from heat and vibration
decanting
Recaping and continuing to steep as nessessary.

As far as the time it takes to steep depends on what your mixing. Some of my mixes take an hour and others take up to 5 hours. Steeping time depends on the mix. What everyone needs to realize is what works for some does not work for all and there's no productivity in debating whos method is right or wrong.

Carry on your going in the right direction.

 

[Blueser]

Is there a particular post in this thread that I should read? If so, please find it and advise me of what I am missing here.

I say whatever works for you, is all that matters...it's a good thing you haven't gone off the steep end and gotten all OCD...I warm my juice a little while, shake and vape and don't fret much past that...

 

[AmandaD]

What really bugs me is that folks believe they have to uc juice four hours and apply excess heat for long periods of time to fast steep. I used to work for the man that invented the laboratory bottle washer. It became the UC. Most people wouldn't believe lab glassware would be sterilized in the first three seconds after the machine was turned on. therefore they installed a timer that would do the job in eight minutes. do you see where i am going or you may need to read post 1587. Otherwise you may be wasting your time.

Only way for you to tell is to try it yourself, using the methods we explained earlier! As said earlier, this is clearly not sterilizing but rather merging the flavors together. Not the same thing, obviously LOL Have you ever made spaghetti sauce and realized how much better it is days after it's cooked? Or how much better it is after several hours on the stove, as opposed to a few minutes? Same principle I would think.

 

[jpasint]

Has anybody happened to have tested steeping at a different frequency like 20k instead of 40 or 42?
I have a UC coming that has both freqs.

I've read that the bubbles are bigger and more violent at the lower frequency so I thought that might prove more effective for our mixing purposes.

 

[bobalex]

I've read that the bubbles are bigger and more violent at the lower frequency so I thought that might prove more effective for our mixing purposes.

That sounds logical. I'd be very interested in the results. What machine? How Much did it cost? My 8 minute cycle UC is nearing the end of its life cycle and I'll be looking for a replacement.

 

[disco180]

The lower the frequency the larger the bubbles and more physical the waves become, this would be almost comparable to vigorously shaking the bottle on a vibration plate.

It is the high frequency that we desire for our e-juice because the high speed works on a more micro level that allows the waves to directly effect the juice inside the bottle with less affect on the bottle.

 

[bobalex]

The lower the frequency the larger the bubbles and more physical the waves become, this would be almost comparable to vigorously shaking the bottle on a vibration plate.

It is the high frequency that we desire for our e-juice because the high speed works on a more micro level that allows the waves to directly effect the juice inside the bottle with less affect on the bottle.

Ah-HAH!

Now I Get It.

Though I still am going to need a new UC in the future. Making up a batch tonight and I can tell it's wheezing. Still would like to know more about the dual frequency UC.