Straight up Antifreeze in our vapor...more bias reporting.

[Uma]

If I am putting antifreeze in my body then why do my bones lock up so much in the cold.

hahaha good one!

I keep getting confused on this issue. But I am always calmed when I remember this that someone posted: It would take 6,600 bad carts EVERY DAY in order to hurt/kill a typical 150 lb human. This is equal to almost 2 GALLONS of eliquid PER DAY. We vapers would have to vape 6,600 x 18 (only 1 in 18 is bad), or vape 2 gallons x 18 (36 gallons a DAY) in order to FIND a bad cart based on their 1-18 find.).

 

[bruther]

PG is one of the main ingredients in K-Y jelly and I would imagine that stuff's been ingested quite a few times.

 

[Bluesun62]

And Steak is used in the production of poop! These people need to get a life.

 

[Sathane]

As I sit here right now listening to Howard Stern on Sirius talking to Gary the ...... who is coughing; Howard was asking Gary if he's still smoking and Gary said he's using E cigs. Howard says to him, "those are dangerous, if you're going to smoke you should be using regular cigarettes, not the ecigs and they are pure poison!" I couldn't believe he said that. WTF

I've never considered Howard Stern a valid source of good advice, on any topic...

 

[Silic0nJ3sus]

PG antifreeze isn't just any old antifreeze, its rv antifreeze. The the same stuff is used to winterize washing machines. I just wonder if any of these reporters or researchers have ever actualy seen the ingredient list for cough syrup...

Sent from my DROIDX

 

[Bustastew]

Use your friend to get that stupid reporter fired!

 

[Vocalek]

This story is a direct lift from the one that aired in Albany last week. Most people won't read past first 3 paragraphs and I like the quote about this legislation killing people. And it does say "trace amounts" of antifreeze which is accurate.

NO. "Trace amounts" is accurate, but "antifreeze" was not.

Propaganda 101 - To turn public opinion against something, carefully select terminology that evokes fear or loathing. "Antifreeze" sounds so much more frightening than "tobacco humectant" now doesn't it?

And instead of specifiying "Tobacco-Specific Nitrosamines" (TSNAs), which can be carcinogenic in large amounts, skip to the scary part and say that you found "carcinogens"

Propaganda 102 - Carefully tell only part of the truth. Do not let on that when it comes to toxins and carcinogens, the dose makes the poison. Don't tell the public that the trace amounts of DEG were so miniscule that they presented zero danger of actually being toxic.

Don't bother to mention that the largest quantity of TSNAs found in a cartridge matches the quantity of TSNAs in an FDA-approved patch or 5 pieces of nicotine gum -- about 8 nanograms. Now eventually, the >100,000 nanograms of TSNAs in a daily dose of smoke will cause cancer--maybe after 20 years or so of smoking. So you would have to vape, wear a patch, or chew 5 pieces of gum daily for 250,000 years to match the quantity taken in from smoking for 20 years.

When you tell the whole truth, it kind of puts things in their proper perspective, doesn't it?

 

[Vocalek]

PG antifreeze isn't just any old antifreeze, its rv antifreeze. The the same stuff is used to winterize washing machines. I just wonder if any of these reporters or researchers have ever actualy seen the ingredient list for cough syrup...

Sent from my DROIDX

People, please. Get this straight. When you read about "antifreeze" in connection with electronic cigarettes, the reporter is not talking about the e-liquid base chemical Propylene Glycol (PG). They are talking about the FDA reporting that they found 1% Diethylene Glycol (DEG) in one of the cartridges and referring to the trace of DEG as "an ingredient used in antifreeze."

So when you write to a reporter or comment online about a story, if you go on and on about how safe Propylene Glycol is, it leaves people scratching their heads. "Why is s/he talking about that?"

You can read the FDA's press release here: FDA and Public Health Experts Warn About Electronic Cigarettes

Yes, PG also is used in antifreeze....Antifreeze manufacturers replaced DEG with much safer PG years ago for use in automobiles, because PG won't poison your pets. DEG is still used in some industrial applications for antifreeze. The FDA considers PG to be "GRAS" (Generally Recognized as Safe), but DEG is is toxic in much, much lower quantities.

 

[PlanetScribbles]

Has anyone considered turning the tables on these ......, and goin' viral with blogs, tweets, facebook, in fact any darn way it is possible, about how it has been shown and proven that all NRTs contain cancer causing carcinogens and nicotine, a deadly toxin that can be fatal to children, humans and animals? I'd tweet that stuff in a flash

 

[tobarger]

PG is one of the main ingredients in K-Y jelly and I would imagine that stuff's been ingested quite a few times.

I not sure what you just said, but I like it.

 

[Turnkeys]

I believe it's DIETHYLENE GLYCOL in antifreeze??

The FDA report stated it found DEG (diethylene glycol) in one sample tested.

What the FDA failed to state is, DEG is found in tobacco cigarettes at much higher levels than found in the one sample they tested.

Vocalek quoted the level equalivalancy in another post, derived from the recent study by Zachary Cahn, and Michael Siegel (I think.) At the DEG levels found in that one cart (of 18) a person would need to use 6,600 carts in a day to reach toxic levels. I did the conversions, 223 ounces. That's just over 1.7 gallons.

I just registered on this new site to comment, and the confirmation's taking forever. I'm SO sick of this repeated spewing of disinformation.

Another of the many uses for PG (gleaned from wikipedia) is a base for injectable meds that do not dissolve in water.

FYI: Those wanting to comment on this site's article, instead of waiting like I did, check your e-mail's spam folder for the confirmation.

 

[Turnkeys]

People, please. Get this straight. When you read about "antifreeze" in connection with electronic cigarettes, the reporter is not talking about the e-liquid base chemical Propylene Glycol (PG). They are talking about the FDA reporting that they found 1% Diethylene Glycol (DEG) in one of the cartridges and referring to the trace of DEG as "an ingredient used in antifreeze."

So when you write to a reporter or comment online about a story, if you go on and on about how safe Propylene Glycol is, it leaves people scratching their heads. "Why is s/he talking about that?"

You can read the FDA's press release here: FDA and Public Health Experts Warn About Electronic Cigarettes

Yes, PG also is used in antifreeze....Antifreeze manufacturers replaced DEG with much safer PG years ago for use in automobiles, because PG won't poison your pets. DEG is still used in some industrial applications for antifreeze. The FDA considers PG to be "GRAS" (Generally Recognized as Safe), but DEG is is toxic in much, much lower quantities.

It may also be noteworthy that according to Zachary Cahn, and Michael Siegel's paper, of the 16 studies they reviewed, only two of those detected trace levels of TSNA's.

I don't trust a damned thing the FDA releases, but I do trust gas chromatography.

 

[Turnkeys]

I'm curious as well why it appears that absolutely zero research was done before repeating the disinformation the FDA and legislatures are regurgitating? In the July 22,2009 FDA study, only 1 of the 18 cartridges tested showed any traces of diethylene glycol. However DG was not found in the vaporized content. Toxicity of this compound is estimated between 1-1.63 grams per kg of bodyweight and 1ml per kg of bodyweight. Even using the conservative estimate, the amount of liquid in a single cartridge is 1ml. If the DG found in the single cartridge was a trace, then in the least it is not worthy of mention, and at most an indication of manufacture error. The sample was from a Chinese supplier and none have been discovered since.

I am quite happy that Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal was able to quit using nicotine patches. But her success is the exception that proves the rule. Statically if a smoker is unsuccessful in kicking the habit within the first year of smoking, their chances of success go down to 5% using traditional methods. During the past 20+ years, I have tried a scheduled reduction of the amount I smoked each day, nicotine gum, patches, hypnotherapy and herbal supplements. After the first day trying an e-cigarette, my tobacco use went down by 90%. In less than a week I was tobacco free. I still use nicotine, but I also still use caffeine and occasionally alcohol. I no longer cough in the mornings, I can breath deeply without wheezing, have increased stamina and my sense of taste and smell have increased dramatically.

I do support restricting sales to those under 18, but I am an adult. I choose to use nicotine in a manner less harmful than smoking tobacco cigarettes. “a preponderance of the available evidence shows them to be much safer than tobacco cigarettes and comparable in toxicity to conventional nicotine replacement products.” [Zachary Cahn, and Michael Siegel]
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/centers-institutes/population-development/files/article.jphp.pdf

This is a country of choice. I've made mine. Leave it alone and stop disseminating disinformation.

ps: I spent about an hour researching to check my facts. How long did it take you to repaste this article?

I wonder how many (if) of the reporters spewing this crap actually read the replys...

As always, comments welcome.

 

[ckc]

Rosenthal countered, "If people want the easy way to just get addicted to another nicotine delivery system, I hope soon they'll have to look elsewhere."

Is Rosenthal starting to push NRT for long term use?

 

[Turnkeys]

Is Rosenthal starting to push NRT for long term use?

I didn't get that impression at all.

 

[kristin]

IMPORTANT FACTS:

1. The claim about "antifreeze" is NOT about the PROPYLENE glycol, it's about DIETHYLENE glycol.

2. The FDA found approximately 1% diethylene glycol in one cartridge of 18 tested.

3. The FDA did NOT find diethylene glycol in the VAPOR.

4. The FDA did NOT "randomly" test a lot of samples. They only tested 18 cartridges of 2 brands from the 2 companies that were SUING THE FDA. Unbiased research? I think not.

5. The amount of diethylene glycol found is NOT considered toxic.

6. Diethylene glycol is RARELY used in most antifreeze. The most common ingredient is ETHYLENE GLYCOL. Just google the two and you'll see diethylene glycol rarely comes up as the ingredient in antifreeze - most often mentioned is ethylene glycol:

"Ethylene glycol's low volatility, water solubility, and freeze point depressant characteristics result in its primary use as an automotive engine coolant. Coupled with proven corrosion and foam inhibitor systems, it forms the basis for the familiar all-season antifreeze/coolant.......Diethylene glycol and propylene glycol can also be used as antifreeze/coolants, but they are more likely to be mixed with ethylene glycol"
http://www.huntsman.com/performance_products/Media/EG-_DEG-TEG_Brochure_(full).pdf

7. Diethylene glycol is NOT commonly used as a humectant in U.S. cigarettes anymore. The most common humectant is propylene glycol. And a 2002 study determined that the addition of PG as a tobacco humectant did not increase health risks: Toxicologic evaluation of humectants added to ciga... [Inhal Toxicol. 2002] - PubMed result

 

[maureengill]

Boy....Linda Rosenthal really must learn to think outside "what worked for her"....if everything worked for everyone we wouldn't need more than say 1 patch, or 1 inhaler, or 1 losenge, or 1 (wellbutrin, chantix, zyban)pharma product. Typical EX-SMOKER mentality....I did it that way so it must work for everyone...idiot. Even worse...she proposed the e-cig ban bill....

From Linda Rosenthal's website...
“I introduced this legislation to combat the proliferation of these devices, which are being aggressively marketed online and over the counter,” said Assemblymember Rosenthal. “The health effects of e-cigarettes are at best unknown, and undermine legitimate tobacco prevention and cessation efforts. In addition to protecting the Cancer Services Program in the NYS budget and advocating for a more preventive health system, this bill is a major component of my legislative health agenda for 2010.”

 

[mark40511]

I wasn't saying that..............But a LOT of people listen to him and I was shocked that not only the fact that he said e cigs are pure poison, but the fact that he said if you're going to smoke, smoke real cigs, as if real cigs were less dangerous......As a matter of fact, on the wrap up show they were talking about Sal using Ecigs and I think Gary told him they were poisonous too.......Isn't it crazy that more caution is advised about ecigs than real cigs......Wild!

 

[Crumpet]

Boy....Linda Rosenthal really must learn to think outside "what worked for her"....if everything worked for everyone we wouldn't need more than say 1 patch, or 1 inhaler, or 1 losenge, or 1 (wellbutrin, chantix, zyban)pharma product. Typical EX-SMOKER mentality....I did it that way so it must work for everyone...idiot. Even worse...she proposed the e-cig ban bill....

From Linda Rosenthal's website...
“I introduced this legislation to combat the proliferation of these devices, which are being aggressively marketed online and over the counter,” said Assemblymember Rosenthal. “The health effects of e-cigarettes are at best unknown, and undermine legitimate tobacco prevention and cessation efforts. In addition to protecting the Cancer Services Program in the NYS budget and advocating for a more preventive health system, this bill is a major component of my legislative health agenda for 2010.”

See, that's the real point of all of this: we want you to quit smoking, but we want you to do it OUR way, which means suffering through withdrawal and totally giving up something that gives you pleasure. Because the Puritanical Code (the new PC) says that there is redemption in suffering and it is a form of atonement for being such a filthy, disgusting person all those years. They cannot stand to think of people as 'getting away with it' when they've tried to make you as miserable as possible. They especially can't stand for you to 'get away with it' when they didn't have this technology available to them way back when. Why should you have it any easier than they did? No one is saying Linda Rosenass can't use e-cigs,too, if she wants to relive some of the fun parts of smoking. Is she afraid she'll fall back into the black whole of addiction if she is tempted to ever try using one? Should that really even be a concern? I'm also tried of hearing about people trying to circumvent smoking bans (in other words, to not be totally under their control). E-cigs do no such thing, because 'smoking' bans were intended to protect people from second hand smoke. Since there IS NO SMOKE with these, it isn't getting around the ban at all. Smoke is still banned. You don't get to call vapor smoke just because it sort of looks like smoke. You can have your own opinions, but not your own facts. God, I hate these people.

 

[RubenX]

The problem is that Linda needs to help out her friends @ the cancer hospital... without smokers, they'll have no patients:

(from Linda's Website - The 3rd from left to right)