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Follow up:
I ended up tossing the 555 and american red batches- I made a separate post about that, but in the end, what I'm learning (still learning) is that flavoring is the key to everything .. (obviously), but most flavors I would think I would like, I don't, and others that I was unsure about were amazing.. descriptions of flavor concentrates never seem to match - that's my point. I have 40+ bottles of flavor, yet only "love" about 7 of them. Mixed on maybe 10, and utterly hate the rest. Sure bets are your strong flavors like cinnamon, clove, spearmint (my god that's a strong one, mix 2% !!)..
The flavors are subjective.. for every tobacco flavor out there, no description is adequate, and you will be able to swing a dead cat and hit 100 people who love it and 100 people who hate it. This is true of most flavors out there, especially the dessert ones.
So don't be defeated if most of your batches end up in the drain.. especially at first. I've tossed probaby 80% of my first week batches, and easily more than 50% since. At week 3, I'm still tossing about 50%, but now I feel I'm fine-tuning and not making many of the basic mistakes as I did in weeks 1 and 2. I love variety, so just having 2-3 great recipes isn't good enough, I want more!
I've been going at this for a couple hours per day now, looking to be a grand-master within a month or two
I seriously love vaping
I ended up tossing the 555 and american red batches- I made a separate post about that, but in the end, what I'm learning (still learning) is that flavoring is the key to everything .. (obviously), but most flavors I would think I would like, I don't, and others that I was unsure about were amazing.. descriptions of flavor concentrates never seem to match - that's my point. I have 40+ bottles of flavor, yet only "love" about 7 of them. Mixed on maybe 10, and utterly hate the rest. Sure bets are your strong flavors like cinnamon, clove, spearmint (my god that's a strong one, mix 2% !!)..
The flavors are subjective.. for every tobacco flavor out there, no description is adequate, and you will be able to swing a dead cat and hit 100 people who love it and 100 people who hate it. This is true of most flavors out there, especially the dessert ones.
So don't be defeated if most of your batches end up in the drain.. especially at first. I've tossed probaby 80% of my first week batches, and easily more than 50% since. At week 3, I'm still tossing about 50%, but now I feel I'm fine-tuning and not making many of the basic mistakes as I did in weeks 1 and 2. I love variety, so just having 2-3 great recipes isn't good enough, I want more!
I've been going at this for a couple hours per day now, looking to be a grand-master within a month or two
I seriously love vaping
After. We're not suggesting it's necessary, but it was one of the things the OP of the original thread mentioned. I've found while dripping you often get the flavour this way, and juice that tastes good on the drip tip usually tastes good when vaped. Juice that is too strong and needs diluting can be picked up easily without having to vape it for an hour.
A week ago I would have shot the idea down in flames, now I'm agreeing it's both part of the dripping experience, and an indication of how the juice is going to vape longer term.
I've had some success I think (but I've said that before).
I decided to approach three flavours I haven't had much success with in the past. I found them either too weak, or way too strong to be vapable. Since then I got a phoenix atomiser, and I'm finding my tastes are changing. The main change in my taste is that I'm just finding the tobacco flavours that I really liked just too strong and heavy now.
Background to the three flavours:
FA RY4: I found this really weak. At 20% I could taste it, but there were others that I liked more. I couldn't see the point.
FA Dessert Ship: Waaay too strong. I was doing a 20 drop test and one drop of this in 19 blew my socks off, and my hat, and my undies. It was terrible. I liked the gingery taste but after short while is was too much. I made a mistake and took it to work to vape during the day - disaster.
Liq Vanilla Bourbon: I thought I would really like this one, and it was nice on the first 20 drop test - I could taste the bourbon. After two vapes in the clearo however the chemical vanilla taste was so strong I thought I would never want vanilla in anything ever again.
Fast forward two weeks and I find I'm having trouble with my regular tobacco flavours now. They are too strong and heavy and I'm just not enjoying the flavour. Maybe my taste buds are sharpening up. I had promised to revisit the FA RY4 with the new Phoenix, and realising how much more sensitive my taste is now, it seems like a good time.
I did a *40* drop test and added one only (2.5%) drop of RY4. I could just taste it, barely, but it was promising. Added another drop (to 5%) and I could definitely taste it. I didn't feel the need to add another one. The flavour was very mild, but suited my new palate and was not objectionable, just a bit ho-hum boring. By this time it was getting harder to taste anything, so I had a rest from vaping while I thought about it. If the Desert Ship and the Vanilla Bourbon tasted nice on the first hit but were too strong to vape, maybe I just needed to use them very sparingly.
To this end I made up 5ml of the 5% RY4 and added 1 (one!) drop of the Desert Ship. It really lifted the flavour of the RY4, quite nice with just a hint of ginger spice. I don't think I would go stronger after the first disaster I had with it. I was finding the flavour a little harsh however. The spice note was hitting at the end and was too dry - the aftertaste was becoming a little unpleasant.
Enter the Vanilla Bourbon. We all know that Vanilla is a finishing note - it tends to hang on and work with other flavours. I added just one drop of this to my 5ml batch and it was a complete game changer. I wish the bourbon was a bit stronger as it would work very well in here - might have to get some of the PA Bourbon and see if I can make that work in here as well. Next order I think.
I'm only on my third refill of the Phoenix and am about to clean out a CE5 to fill with this. Here's hoping I've made something I can live with for the next few weeks at least. There's another vaper in the family; I'm looking forward to seeing what he thinks of it and this is the first time I've made something that I think someone else might like too although I know he tends more to fruits.
Yah! Score one for the ghetto ninja DIY. Lesson 101: Use a little restraint; you might like your food flavours strong, but vaping is not eating and what you think will be more exciting when stronger just becomes overpowering and a total disaster.
I decided to approach three flavours I haven't had much success with in the past. I found them either too weak, or way too strong to be vapable. Since then I got a phoenix atomiser, and I'm finding my tastes are changing. The main change in my taste is that I'm just finding the tobacco flavours that I really liked just too strong and heavy now.
Background to the three flavours:
FA RY4: I found this really weak. At 20% I could taste it, but there were others that I liked more. I couldn't see the point.
FA Dessert Ship: Waaay too strong. I was doing a 20 drop test and one drop of this in 19 blew my socks off, and my hat, and my undies. It was terrible. I liked the gingery taste but after short while is was too much. I made a mistake and took it to work to vape during the day - disaster.
Liq Vanilla Bourbon: I thought I would really like this one, and it was nice on the first 20 drop test - I could taste the bourbon. After two vapes in the clearo however the chemical vanilla taste was so strong I thought I would never want vanilla in anything ever again.
Fast forward two weeks and I find I'm having trouble with my regular tobacco flavours now. They are too strong and heavy and I'm just not enjoying the flavour. Maybe my taste buds are sharpening up. I had promised to revisit the FA RY4 with the new Phoenix, and realising how much more sensitive my taste is now, it seems like a good time.
I did a *40* drop test and added one only (2.5%) drop of RY4. I could just taste it, barely, but it was promising. Added another drop (to 5%) and I could definitely taste it. I didn't feel the need to add another one. The flavour was very mild, but suited my new palate and was not objectionable, just a bit ho-hum boring. By this time it was getting harder to taste anything, so I had a rest from vaping while I thought about it. If the Desert Ship and the Vanilla Bourbon tasted nice on the first hit but were too strong to vape, maybe I just needed to use them very sparingly.
To this end I made up 5ml of the 5% RY4 and added 1 (one!) drop of the Desert Ship. It really lifted the flavour of the RY4, quite nice with just a hint of ginger spice. I don't think I would go stronger after the first disaster I had with it. I was finding the flavour a little harsh however. The spice note was hitting at the end and was too dry - the aftertaste was becoming a little unpleasant.
Enter the Vanilla Bourbon. We all know that Vanilla is a finishing note - it tends to hang on and work with other flavours. I added just one drop of this to my 5ml batch and it was a complete game changer. I wish the bourbon was a bit stronger as it would work very well in here - might have to get some of the PA Bourbon and see if I can make that work in here as well. Next order I think.
I'm only on my third refill of the Phoenix and am about to clean out a CE5 to fill with this. Here's hoping I've made something I can live with for the next few weeks at least. There's another vaper in the family; I'm looking forward to seeing what he thinks of it and this is the first time I've made something that I think someone else might like too although I know he tends more to fruits.
Yah! Score one for the ghetto ninja DIY. Lesson 101: Use a little restraint; you might like your food flavours strong, but vaping is not eating and what you think will be more exciting when stronger just becomes overpowering and a total disaster.
Really nice post. You now have made me curious but I have to restrain myself from ordering yet another batch of flavours
I ordered 13 samples from PA and I just can wait for them to get here (IF they get here coz i got priority mail as shipping and they do not guarantee for package wich sucks). When they arrive I will have my way with them mwhaha ha.
Best of luck.
You first add the flavours that u like in an empty bottle, then you add the base with / without the nicotine. I do it this way to avoid flavours from getting stuck in the drip cap of the bottle. I then shake it up vigurously, drip in my dripping RBA and vape until I`m convinced it sucks
)) If you dont have an RBA (rebuildable atomizer) you can just remove the wicking material form a cartomizer and drip right into it. If you get it right than do NOT hesitate to share it with the rest of us ghetto jedi style mixers
Edit: You can view how it-s done here
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Really nice post. You now have made me curious but I have to restrain myself from ordering yet another batch of flavours
When you're ready, the amended 30ml recipe is here: Light Tobacco 30ml 16mg 66/34 by fabricator4 - e-Liquid Calculator on Lars' recipe site.
I'm currently 3ml into the 5ml sample I made up this afternoon. You'll notice I've backed off the Desert Ship a little. When you buy it, you'll only need the tiny sample bottle, and you probably won't need to buy any more for a long time.
I also felt it was missing some complexity and added one drop of an already mixed black coffee that I had here. Bingo! The final piece fell into place. I'm looking forward to seeing how it vapes over the next week. It should have changed a little in the half full bottle by about Wednesday and I'll know where it's heading. You'll notice that I'm now diluting to 16mg and aiming for a lower VG content. The 24mg base that I originally got for my ninja experiments is now too strong for me, and I've already started dropping it. It's messed up the ninja experiments but that's OK, I just know I need 66% of the base and throw everything else in then add PG to bring it up to the required level. The ninja rides.
This is the lowest VG limit that that I can get to with my current nic base. I'm missing the vapour a little but the flavour is a bit cleaner. I'm hoping that the Vivis will wick the lower VG a bit better, but will get around to re-building the atties and sorting them out at some point.
Waiting is the worst bit. I check the tracking very few hours and torture myself. Postal service tracking is close to useless anyway. Join Lars' recipe site while you are waiting, you might get a few more ideas.
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If you dont have an RBA (rebuildable atomizer) you can just remove the wicking material form a cartomizer and drip right into it. If you get it right than do NOT hesitate to share it with the rest of us ghetto jedi style mixers
Did it, no worries. It's partly what convinced me that I needed a real drip atty. I also got a hacksaw and cut the cartomiser case right down, leaving the coil hanging out. Instant dipping coil! You can dip and taste your 20 drop test without using very much (much less than one drop!) so you don't mess the ratios up too much.
Tip: dip the coil and then fire up the battery while sucking the vapour off the coil with a short straw (I always get the short straw!). The flavour is very intense at 3.7V, I recommend doing it at 3.4 or maybe less.
Warning! First time I did this I was enjoying it so much I misjudged how quickly that little bit turns into vapour and let it go dry while sucking on the straw, which directed the dry hit right to the back of my throat. I swear I thought I'd cauterised my adinoids!
BTW, the problem with using bottom breathing cartos for drip attys is that if you flood them you get juice all over your battery contacts. I try to avoid that if I can, but yeah it happens anyway.
When you're ready, the amended 30ml recipe is here: Light Tobacco 30ml 16mg 66/34 by fabricator4 - e-Liquid Calculator on Lars' recipe site.
I'm currently 3ml into the 5ml sample I made up this afternoon. You'll notice I've backed off the Desert Ship a little. When you buy it, you'll only need the tiny sample bottle, and you probably won't need to buy any more for a long time.
You'll notice that I'm now diluting to 16mg and aiming for a lower VG content. The 24mg base that I originally got for my ninja experiments is now too strong for me, and I've already started dropping it. It's messed up the ninja experiments but that's OK, I just know I need 66% of the base and throw everything else in then add PG to bring it up to the required level. The ninja rides.
This is the lowest VG limit that that I can get to with my current nic base. I'm missing the vapour a little but the flavour is a bit cleaner. I'm hoping that the Vivis will wick the lower VG a bit better, but will get around to re-building the atties and sorting them out at some point.
Waiting is the worst bit. I check the tracking very few hours and torture myself. Postal service tracking is close to useless anyway. Join Lars' recipe site while you are waiting, you might get a few more ideas.
Nice calculator BTW. I was getting confused about the drps. per ml. Using 20 drps per mil 1+19 = 5%. 1+39= 2.5%. Now the 5% RY4(using 20drpsml=100drps)with with 1 drp(1+99=1%).
But I see you are using 50 drps. per ml?? What am I missing here OR what am I getting wrong???
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Done it in the past, works great. The carto's I have, have a sleeve covering the atomizer so I didn't have a flooding problem. BTW, what did you mean about "to avoid flavours from getting stuck in the drip cap of the bottle". Do your flavours come in drip tip bottles(plastic)? Does this mean you are not using an eye dropper? Makes a difference.You first add the flavours that u like in an empty bottle, then you add the base with / without the nicotine. I do it this way to avoid flavours from getting stuck in the drip cap of the bottle. I then shake it up vigurously, drip in my dripping RBA and vape until I`m convinced it sucks
If you dont have an RBA (rebuildable atomizer) you can just remove the wicking material form a cartomizer and drip right into it. If you get it right than do NOT hesitate to share it with the rest of us ghetto jedi style mixers
...
But I see you are using 50 drps. per ml?? What am I missing here OR what am I getting wrong???
Indeed, grasshopper.
The 20 drops per ml is a horrible myth being perpetrated by enemies of the ghetto ninja system (the juice barrons). It's a flat-out lie.
It was on my very first 20 drop test when I was trying my very first cherry tobacco vape juice. 18 drops of base, two drops of concentrate. Vape a drop, add one drop of concentrate. Repeat this vape-add two more times. That's still twenty drops, right? 20 drops is one ml, my CE3 bottom coil clearos takes 1ml. Suck up the new juice in to a syringe and and notice that it's not even half a ml, no wonder it looked like a piddling little amount in the bottle. Put it in the CE3. Nope, definitely not 1ml. Not half a ml.
Take the plunger out of the 2.5ml syringe. Plug bottom hole with thumb, and drop PG into the syringe up to the 2ml line, counting drops. Holy flying drip tips vapeman, that was 108 drops! 108 drops divided by 2 gives 54 drops per ml. Do the same exercise with VG and get 46 drops per ml, since it's slightly thicker; not as much difference as I was expecting actually, maybe it is the heat in the vapelab. Ninja rules say I can take the average between PG and VG and use the mean figure as long as (a) it's not out by more than 10% and (b) I remember this fact should it actually be important to do so - 50 drops per ml it is. Hooray! the juice barrons will not win today.
Sorry, I've vaped way too much of the Special Light Tobacco 16mg super ADV in the last 7 hours. Should I actually be dripping 1+ml per hour for that long? Didn't someone mention cleaning out a CE5 for tomorrow? Is my Phoenix atty supposed to be that warm? Do I need a coffee? Yes! "Atty-man, get out from under the table and go put the espresso machine on!"
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Indeed, grasshopper.
The 20 drops per ml is a horrible myth being perpetrated by enemies of the ghetto ninja system (the juice barrons). It's a flat-out lie.
..."
So in the future, your recipes will be using 50 drpsml, Batman? Future conversions from drps to ml's will be using that figure? I guess when using ejuicemeup it should also use 50?
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So in the future, your recipes will be using 50 drpsml, Batman? Future conversions from drps to ml's will be using that figure? I guess when using ejuicemeup it should also use 50?
My recipes will have 50 drops/ml. Yours however, may not. You cannot walk the path of the ghetto ninja until you have done the test, because your dripping dropper may have a different drip/drop coefficient.
Go now, and do not return until you know how many drops you drip, otherwise you will forever be trying to recreate the perfect recipe that you created the last Sunday, around tea time, because the exact recipe has been lost, was it 20 drops? what is 40? All is lost! Woe!
When you return you will know how may drops you drip to the ml and will be able to enter this figure into any juice calculator. Perfection will be yours!
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Nobody intimidates me!
( with glass eye dropper )
PG 74/2=37
VG 40/2=20
NicBase 60/40 66/2=33
Ave 30
TFA Espresso Flavor 74/2=37
TFA Bubblegum ( Juicy Fruit style ) 89/2=49.5
TFA Caramel Cappuccino 72/2=36
Ave Rounded 40 (40.8)
FA Coffee Espresso flavor 84/2=42
FA Hazelnut flavor 72/2=36
FA Lemon Sicily flavor 87/2=48.5
Ave Rounded 42 (42.1)
Generalized Average Rounded 37(37.3)
PG/VG/NBase30+FA42=72/2 36
PG/VG/NBase30TFA40=70/2=35
So I'd say my DrpsPml = 36 sen say
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Wump! (sound of "sen say" falling off his perch)
Excellent job, if a little more enthusiastic than I was expecting. 20 drops for the thick stuff? Hmmm
Yeah, pretty thick stuff.
And the My recipe is @60/40 using 19mg 50/50:
And your recipe is:
I'm trying to compare but its making my head hurt.
Drops are different, but, ml's(flavors) about the same??? Something seems off. I'll try to convert using ejuicemeup sometime later!
Enough fun for a Sunday afternoon.
Here is another( PDF ) "drop" method I just remembered. Put together by a long time vaper here on ECF(str88 I think).
Might find it interesting.
Might find it interesting.
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