Super Easy DIY Method

[Kabooma]

rdix33 - yeah I ordered specific concentrates, not pre-mixed blends. They are little 10ml bottles of flavourart, crooked labels and all..

Last night I kept mixing the cherry over and over in 1ml 50/50 base. I couldn't even taste the cherry until I was up to 1ml concentrate.. a 100% ratio to the base!! I had to add another 20% to get enough flavor to really taste it.. and it was awful.. tasted like dime store imitation extract. I did the same with the "mellow tobacco" flavor.. got full flavor at the 100% mix ratio, and it tasted like a wet generic light cigarette (30%) and 70% like a grocery store paper bag.. almost like cardboard, but with paper elements to it.

I'm very sensitive to smells and tastes. Not in a bad way, I was a chef apprentice in my early days and am considered one of the best cooks in my family because of my fanatical attention to robust flavors. Most pre-mixed blends I've bought I would say are strong, some to the point that I've had to dilute them with base. I'm basically framing all that in an effort to paint the picture to you guys just how weak the ecigexpress concentrates are. Keep in mind, I ordered 3 different brands through them, and all of them were weakened, although the FA were by far the most diluted.

Most of them ended up in the trash last night after literally dozens of 1ml tests.

I ordered from wizard labs this morning. Their prices kill ecigexpress's anyways, and I've heard nothing but good about their quality

 

[red_m1ke]

I was up to 1ml concentrate.. a 100% ratio to the base!! I had to add another 20% to get enough flavor to really taste it.. a

lol, waste of money and most of all waste of time. I`m so sick of this kind of stuff happening everywhere. I want to get what I pay for and nothing else. That happened to my in one of the stores here in my country and after long arguments i got my money back but unfortunatly no one pays for my time...

 

[rdix33]

I was actually about to place an order with ECx, but after reading this, I think I'll steer clear. I got my first couple batches from Wizard and high desert, and I'm very satisfied with both. I just continue to do business with them.

 

[fabricator4]

OK, so I tried just about everything when it comes to steeping and mixing liquids and not even one of them is vapable. I let them sit for 2 weeks, then I read in this forum about ultrasonic steeping and ordered one and still couldnt get any result. I am so frustrated that I made an account after reading this post and posted some random stuff just so I can post here.

HELP!

If it's not vapable before steeping, then it probably won't be vapable after steeping either. Steeping isn't a magic bullet that takes a foul juice and makes it into something wonderful in a few weeks . You will hear stories though - "It thought the XYZ juice from that company was awful and left it on the shelf for 2 months, Now it's wonderful!" I'd suggest that it's more to do with the perceptions and tastes of the vaper than anything really wonderful happening to the juice.

Oh, things do happen sometimes - acid notes can tone down and blend with the base notes more. Overly bright notes can blend and mute. Unvapable does not turn into wonderful.

"Dry and flavourless" Sounds more like a wicking problem or an atty/voltage problem. What are you testing at, what voltage etc. When testing you should always start at very low volts and work your way up. The actual volts will depend on the coil resistance, but for a 2.2 ohm coil I start at 3.2 V (v.v low up to about 4.2V or 8W :- dry and flavourless with many liquids)

This thread is more about the technique than it is about creating flavours, but I'll add my thoughts on it here.

1. You can't blend if you don't understande the flavours you have. Start with just a few flavours that you want to work with and do a 20 drop test on each one. (If the flavour is a real stong or overpowering one this will not dilute it enough - go to 40, or 80 if you have to). Next, start off dipping and tasting at the lowest (1 drop) mix. If you really can't taste it or get an idea of what the flavour is doing, add another drop. Make notes each and every time you add a drop: you really won't remember all of the details after the third one.

2. Once you've tested just two or three individual flavours that you want to mix start thinking about how they will work together and what you want to achieve. BTW if one of the flavours was really great on it's own, by all means pick the dilution you liked best and just go with that for a while; your job is done.

3. Now that you have a plan and an idea of what you want to create do another 20 (or 40) drop test at the mix that you think will work. If it seems OK, then put it in a 1ml bottom coil clearo or a drop atty and vape yer head off with it.

4. If it's still working for you, (nothing overpowering, flavours seeming to work OK) then mix up a 10ml batch and start your steeping process. Go straight to a 1 week steep, and sample every few days to find out what is happening. The flavours will start to change a little - some will come forward and some will go to the background. New characters and notes may start to develop. You may tweek a recipe slightly after you find out how it works out, but smoke a couple of ml first - Somthing that is interesting on the first vape can get pretty yucky after using it for a few hours.

5. Repeat steps 2-4 until you have your perfect juice. Once you know you are going to like it, make up 30 ml batches and get them steeping.

 

[darkhood]

Everything fabricator4 said is right on ^^^. Also cherry's right - I got my card hacked from either ecx or aqv, pretty sure it was aqv but it doesn't matter - ecx is definitely watering down their flavors lately so I suggest going somewhere else. Their base is still very good and you can get bottles there, etc but all the FA flavors I've gotten from them recently have been weaker than normal. There are plenty of other sites to get FA stuff from though, a few are even linked in these comments by myself.

 

[red_m1ke]

"Dry and flavourless" Sounds more like a wicking problem or an atty/voltage problem.

I make my own coils in a vision eternity at 3ohm on a Vmax at 3.0 - 3.3 Volts, I use 1 mm folded in 4 silicka wick so I dont think it may be an atty problem. I was thinking that maybe I`ve put too much 5 drops of Virginia in 5ml / mix?

Start with just a few flavours that you want to work with and do a 20 drop test on each one.

20 drops of base per 1 drop or flavour or 20 drops of flavour into a 5ml mix !? Sry, but I dont understand this.

Thank you very much for takeing the time and explain it to me. I greatly appreciate it and that is some good advice. I allways thought that even if i dont tase anything, given enough time to steep it will be ok, but now ...

Oh, and some other thing: How do I try the liquid? I put one drop of flavour, shake a little then test? Then repeat until its ok ?
Sry but I`m really noob, and with this beeing THE SUPER JEDI MIXING Diy I may have come to the right place ) I just took Caramel, Oba Oba, Seven Leaves and coconut and started mixing 10 5ml bottles of different flavour % ratios

 

[fabricator4]

I make my own coils in a vision eternity at 3ohm on a Vmax at 3.0 - 3.3 Volts, I use 1 mm folded in 4 silicka wick so I dont think it may be an atty problem. I was thinking that maybe I`ve put too much 5 drops of Virginia in 5ml / mix?

I think I see your problem. Where did you get the "5 drops" from? I'll bet you believe all of those calculators and advice on the net that says that one ml is 20 drops?

This is not true. I've tested this with my dropper bottles and PG, and PG based flavours, and it's not even close. My own figure with my equipment is 54 drops to the ml. If you have a similar situation then 5 drops of PG based flavour in 5ml would equate to about 1.85% of flavour in a 5ml batch. No wonder you can't taste it.

First thing to do is to test how many drops you _really_ have in a ml. Not everybody's drop size is the same. Use something like a 4ml syringe or something else that will measure to the ml very accurately. Since most flavours are PG based, feel free to use PG for this test, but do keep in mind that to be accurate that you really need to perform this test on the concentrate in question.

Next, remove the plunger and drip PG or concentrate into the syringe (plug the hole otherwise it will run out) and count how many drops takes the level to 2ml. Halve this and you will have the number of drops per ml. The reason we do 2ml (at least) is to even out any errors in measurement. Now that you've got your conversion factor in mls you will know how many drops you _really_ have to the ml. I'll bet it's not 20 which is what most sites and caclulators will try to tell you.

Since you're rebuilding, review all of your procedures. In particular make sure you are not wrapping the wire too tightly on the wick. If you do it can choke the wick and stop the juice from reaching the coil. Looser is better as long as the wire is in contact with the wick.

I suspect your real problem is the small amount of flavour you are using in a 5ml batch however.

20 drops of base per 1 drop or flavour or 20 drops of flavour into a 5ml mix !? Sry, but I dont understand this.

A "20 drop test" is a standard test to have a first run at a flavour or mix. It's 'resolution' is only 5%, this is, if you've only got 20 drops total then one drop of flavour added is 5%. That is, 19 drops of base and one drop of flavour will give you a 5% dilution of the flavour you are testing.

If you have very stong flavours then feel free to use a "40" drop test or any other method that suits you. The main objective is to approach it very methodically and in such a ways as you can investigate the flavourings at different concentrations to make the most of a small sample. If you get it wrong or too strong, just wipe it up with the tissue and start again. 20 drops is actually less than half a ml for me. Expect to do these kinds of tests three or four times before you get a combination and concentration scheme that might be worth upscaling to a 10ml trial. Because you now have a more accurate measure of how many drops that you need to the ml, you'll be able to upscale the recipe accurately.

Remember that with the drop test you will be adding drops and sampling drops, so the accuracy is going to go out the more you do this. You'll need to frequently start from scratch and test the dilution that you think you were at. So, say you think you need 10% of one flavour and 5% of the another, you'd redo the test with 17 drops of base, 2 drops of the first flavour, and one drop of the second flavour.

Thank you very much for takeing the time and explain it to me. I greatly appreciate it and that is some good advice. I allways thought that even if i dont tase anything, given enough time to steep it will be ok, but now ...

Oh, and some other thing: How do I try the liquid? I put one drop of flavour, shake a little then test? Then repeat until its ok ?
Sry but I`m really noob, and with this beeing THE SUPER JEDI MIXING Diy I may have come to the right place ) I just took Caramel, Oba Oba, Seven Leaves and coconut and started mixing 10 5ml bottles of different flavour % ratios

Yes, you add the drop of flavour, make sure it is very well mixed, then try vaporising one drop of liquid. I like dipping for this. I have a carto that I've removed the filler and cut down so that the coil is exposed. I dip the coil in the test solution and fire it up, sucking the vapor through a straw to prevent burning my lips. Others prefer to use a drip atty, and in fact I've got one coming in the mail.

If you're modifing a carto this way it's vitally important that you dont have a short circuit. If the coil leads touch the side of the metal cartridge then a short can take out any unprotected electronics or even damage the battery. Maybe don't do it this way unless you understand it and the risks, but it does give you a very strong indication of the flavour while using very little of the test sample and so increasing accuracy.

 

[darkhood]

I've covered steeping and everything else being talked about here already so I think I'll just bow out at this point and let fabricator take over if he wants lol. All I'll say is that my own personal method for mixing involves zero calculations, zero planning, zero note-taking and simply relies on my gut instinct, smell and initial taste - steeping will improve a juice but it's not a cure-all by any means - if a juice sucks mixed fresh the best it can ever be is mediocre in my experience.

I start w/ a few drops per ml, shake, smell and add more from there. I use a 306 bridgeless atty to taste test but honestly at this point I don't even need to do that anymore - if a juice smells good 9/10 times it'll taste good so I'm at the point now where once I shake it and the smell is there that's all I need to know it's good.

I said this before but it's worth repeating, think of this as cooking - seek to balance flavors, rely on your knowledge of what goes well together and trust your nose and instincts - do that you won't fail. Unless you can't cook to save your life then perhaps it's best to just buy vendor juice or use a calculator although I gotta tell ya every flavor is diff't - some I have need 10 drops per 1ml, others if you use more than 1 you'll ruin the batch. I'm pretty sure those calculators only work well for mixing up nic base but I don't know for sure cuz I've never used one...

Personally I just use the force.

 

[fabricator4]

I've covered steeping and everything else being talked about here already so I think I'll just bow out at this point and let fabricator take over if he wants lol.

Ah, I think I'm done for the night. It's quite late here, 25 minutes to Sunday.

Personally I just use the force.

Sometimes the force works too

 

[darkhood]

Thought I'd share my new recipe and break it down, might help some ppl w/ mixing flavors idk.

Not gonna give the ratios cuz I don't know them, like I said I don't take any notes and don't care about recreating mixes exactly cuz it's more fun to just come up w/ new ones. This mix came about organically and morphed into my new "adv" (until it's all gone then I'll just make something else, since making this though I've vaped nothing else, been almost 5 days now and I'm failry confident I could do it again and have something just as good if not better - my juice just keeps getting better and I'm not saying that to gloat or anything - keep doing it and you'll keep improving).

(in descending order of amount) royal + oba oba + cookie + hypno mist + honey + cocoa + ylang ylang + oakwood + whipped cream.

Here's how I got there - royal and oba oba go w/ pretty much anything, add hypno mist and you get a nice exotic vanilla tobacco flavor. From there I added cookie to give it a bakery sort of flavor, since cookie's sweet I added oakwood to balance it out (oak being a woodsy, earthy type flavor). From there I added cocoa and whipped cream (hot chocolate) and balanced it out w/ ylang ylang (a sort of exotic vanilla flavor) and honey. Along the way after every 2 balanced flavors added I would shake it and take a whiff to see where it was at but that's what it's all about - balance. If you can balance flavors you can make great juice.

The result here is a balanced, not-too-sweet "adv" type flavor where no one ingredient stands out - it's complex and interesting, I rly can't get enough of the stuff. It was good when I first mixed it and keep in mind I kept tweaking it till it smelled like I wanted (again, if it smells good it'll taste good) but after 5 days now it's just getting better and better and I can honestly say w/o ego at this point it's the best juice I've ever had besides (my fav) hypnotic mist.

Balance, follow your instincts and trust your nose, this is the way of the ghetto jedi

 

[aubergine]

I wish we did this in teaspoons...

 

[darkhood]

3 drops = 1 teaspoon

 

[aubergine]

darkhood, i truly love you.

<--- total idiot.

(But I'm a very good cook by all reports, and I cook like darkhood mixes. Batter on the ceiling...)

 

[Faylool]

Three drops from what size dropper. I maybe missed something. Easy enough to figure out. Drip drops into teaspoon and count

 

[darkhood]

wth that's not very nice. what i get i guess for trying to help ppl. whatever.

 

[darkhood]

Three drops from what size dropper. I maybe missed something. Easy enough to figure out. Drip drops into teaspoon and count

jesus i was j/k.

 

[darkhood]

the whole point of this is to skip any and all measuring...if u have to measure it just count the # of drops, exactly.

 

[darkhood]

whatever, i'm done. passed on my method, answered a million pm's and questions...goodbye and good luck everyone.

 

[aubergine]

darkhood... I'm so sorry that my silly question provoked any sort of tension in anyone. I'm kind of confused - you did see by the arrow that I was calling myself a total idiot?
I think you can't imagine how many people deeply appreciate this thread.

 

[red_m1ke]

I think I see your problem. Where did you get the "5 drops" from? I'll bet you believe all of those calculators and advice on the net that says that one ml is 20 drops?

I use 40 drops / 1ml of juice as a standard with FA flavours, and for the base a just use a 2.5 ML syringe.

Since you're rebuilding, review all of your procedures. In particular make sure you are not wrapping the wire too tightly on the wick. If you do it can choke the wick and stop the juice from reaching the coil. Looser is better as long as the wire is in contact with the wick.

Your are so right on this one, and may be right but I cant really tell when I wraped to hard or too lose.
Again thank you so much for your time, i will be trying this when I finish typing and will report back when I`m satisfied with what I`ve found. I`m so glad I posted in this forum

All I'll say is that my own personal method for mixing involves zero calculations, zero planning, zero note-taking and simply relies on my gut instinct, smell and initial taste

JEDI ULTRA DIY in action !!!

Personally I just use the force.

Holy wack, unlyrical lyrics Andre, you're Fu**in' right...

To the rapmobile, let's go...