SvoёMesto KAYFUN 4

[HBcorpse]

I second the motion. Take it to the clone thread.

I haven't seen anyone get offended and take up arms yet.
Let's quit the scaredy cat preemptive voting.
1. Nobody has started an argument.
2. Fearing the topic only fuels the idea of an argument.
3. As long as everyone has clearly stated that everyone has their own preferences, and doesn't judge anyone for their own decisions (or at least leaves their judgement off the forum), any topic should be open for discussion...especially small metal parts that turn liquid into vapor.

 

[ricks]

I haven't seen anyone get offended and take up arms yet.
Let's quit the scaredy cat preemptive voting.
1. Nobody has started an argument.
2. Fearing the topic only fuels the idea of an argument.
3. As long as everyone has clearly stated that everyone has their own preferences, and doesn't judge anyone for their own decisions (or at least leaves their judgement off the forum), any topic should be open for discussion...especially small metal parts that turn liquid into vapor.

You are getting pretty close...

 

[BNEAT]

First of all, let's call them what they really are: counterfeits! (Not sure where the idiotic "clone" term came from)

 

[BNEAT]

And second of all (sense it looks silly to have a "first of all" without a "second") my counterfeit black K4 looks and functions as good as my authentics, and probably will forever....but it's still a cheap ripoff that I'm (almost) ashamed to own

 

[Bronze]

I haven't seen anyone get offended and take up arms yet.
Let's quit the scaredy cat preemptive voting.
1. Nobody has started an argument.
2. Fearing the topic only fuels the idea of an argument.
3. As long as everyone has clearly stated that everyone has their own preferences, and doesn't judge anyone for their own decisions (or at least leaves their judgement off the forum), any topic should be open for discussion...especially small metal parts that turn liquid into vapor.

That's fine. Everyone said what they had to say now we can move on.

 

[raitizz]

So.. emm.. Q, maybe some more pics?

R

 

[Ca Ike]

I've bought Clones/counterfeits mainly because I couldn't afford much at the time and didn't know they wern't authorized repros (what a clone really is). Now I buy authentics when I can afford them. I was given counterfeit KF4's to test out for a couple local shops and bought a black clone just to have the black(being rebuilt with authentic parts as soon as I get them). Side by side with my authentic I can tell a difference. The clones are stainless but they are not the same grade stainless(there is a color difference).They are a low grade cutlery stainless at best and at worst nickel plated aluminum or aluminum alloy(eh pro confirmed they do use 316 in all but the screws which are off the shelf screws). Machining quality varies with EH pro being the best overall and Tobecco the worst. I have a couple no name clones that are horrible.

First big difference is the deck capture screws. They are machined with a broad head and a flat underside making capturing legs very easy, not off the shelf screws. All the screws in my clones are nickel alloy where the authentic is 100% stainless in all parts. All my clones except the eh pro skimp on polishing surfaces, most notably the interior of the chimney. THis does have an effect on airflow and vapor/flavor by creating turbulence/back pressure and anyone that deals with any kind of air system knows you want as smooth a flow as possible for best efficiency. Tollerances between the 10+ authentics i have measured are in the 10k inch, the clones of the same company are in the 100ths of an inch which is horrible consistency. Worse when that inconsistency is in a critical place like an airflow hole size and placement or chamber.

Same build and same juice in all, the authentic is much better. THe closest match has been the eh pro by far in both flavor and vapor once they got the few first run mistakes worked out. Now all the clones I have tried will work well but the amount of tinkering needed to get them to work makes them more expensive in the long run than an authentic. One tobecco clone has had to be completely rebuilt and machining errors fixed. If I had to pay for all the work to fix it it would be double the authentic price. The cost of getting 7 tobbecos at an average $22 each to get a good one is too close to the authentic to be worth the effort.

 

[ricks]

I

I've bought Clones/counterfeits mainly because I couldn't afford much at the time and didn't know they wern't authorized repros (what a clone really is). Now I buy authentics when I can afford them. I was given counterfeit KF4's to test out for a couple local shops and bought a black clone just to have the black(being rebuilt with authentic parts as soon as I get them). Side by side with my authentic I can tell a difference. The clones are stainless but they are not the same grade stainless(there is a color difference).They are a low grade cutlery stainless at best and at worst nickel plated aluminum or aluminum alloy(eh pro confirmed they do use 316 in all but the screws which are off the shelf screws). Machining quality varies with EH pro being the best overall and Tobecco the worst. I have a couple no name clones that are horrible.

First big difference is the deck capture screws. They are machined with a broad head and a flat underside making capturing legs very easy, not off the shelf screws. All the screws in my clones are nickel alloy where the authentic is 100% stainless in all parts. All my clones except the eh pro skimp on polishing surfaces, most notably the interior of the chimney. THis does have an effect on airflow and vapor/flavor by creating turbulence/back pressure and anyone that deals with any kind of air system knows you want as smooth a flow as possible for best efficiency. Tollerances between the 10+ authentics i have measured are in the 10k inch, the clones of the same company are in the 100ths of an inch which is horrible consistency. Worse when that inconsistency is in a critical place like an airflow hole size and placement or chamber.

Same build and same juice in all, the authentic is much better. THe closest match has been the eh pro by far in both flavor and vapor once they got the few first run mistakes worked out. Now all the clones I have tried will work well but the amount of tinkering needed to get them to work makes them more expensive in the long run than an authentic. One tobecco clone has had to be completely rebuilt and machining errors fixed. If I had to pay for all the work to fix it it would be double the authentic price. The cost of getting 7 tobbecos at an average $22 each to get a good one is too close to the authentic to be worth the effort.

Most people who have the KF4 clones say that Tobecco made the best ones.

 

[Ca Ike]

I

Most people who have the KF4 clones say that Tobecco made the best ones.

If you get a good one then they are decent but out of the several hundred I have handled for a local vape shop 80% have been junk and were sent back. Eh pro has faired better at less than 20% but you pay for the extra detail work eh pro does and eh pro does have a warrantee of sorts where they replace bad parts on request or give them to you at a heavy discount(takes a bit since your dealing direct with china), tobecco just says buy a new one. Well after returning two full shipments from tobecco with tons of hassle from them they are no longer a vendor for this shop for any of their products. Shop name is witheld in topics like these since I'm not an actual employee. I just help test new products they want to stock.

 

[ricks]

If you get a good one then they are decent but out of the several hundred I have handled for a local vape shop 80% have been junk and were sent back. Eh pro has faired better at less than 20% but you pay for the extra detail work eh pro does and eh pro does have a warrantee of sorts where they replace bad parts on request or give them to you at a heavy discount(takes a bit since your dealing direct with china), tobecco just says buy a new one. Well after returning two full shipments from tobecco with tons of hassle from them they are no longer a vendor for this shop for any of their products. Shop name is witheld in topics like these since I'm not an actual employee. I just help test new products they want to stock.

I heard different. Most people say Tobecco makes the better ones.

 

[HDMontana]

I have 4 Tobecco's. All work perfectly. Maybe I have been lucky.

HD

 

[Knifemaker]

For what it is worth, HCigar was heralded as the top of the Kayfuns.

Now for the stainless. In NO WAY are any of them cutlery grade stainless. (Nor is most kitchen cutlery or cheaper Chinese, Pakistani, and many other foreign made low cost Knives). True Cutlery grade starts at 440-C grade, with the "C" being Cutlery. And it is no where near the top grade.
Not even the much marked 440 stainless is cutlery grade. Worst of all, the much highly toted Surgical stainless is a bunk sales pitch. It's only true meaning from it's beginning was that it did not discolor or show any oxidation at 212" degrees in the steam claves used to sterilize medical instruments.

I would love to have an RTA or RDA made from one of the high grade cutlery steels. The finish would last virtually forever. Drops wouldn't dent it, and the the threading would not jwear and become sloppy. But Dream on. It expensive, hard on machine tooling, hard to finish, and the cost would be astronomical.

Even the much favored 317ss and 317ss used in the high end watch world does not come anywhere near Cutlery Grade Criteria. It is used for it's slightly higher abrasion resistance, Precise machinability rating, and high degree of finish due to it's purity and well controlled formula in the steelmaking industry. Something that is lax in many grades of stainless. Or any steel for that matter.

None of these steels are Cutlery grade simply because there is not enough Carbon in the matrix to react to heat treat. They are all SOFT by industrial terms. Although 316 is more abrasion resistant than the other 300 series ss offerings. (303-304 and others)

Even the 440A and 440B are inferior grades. What 317 does have goi 9 hg for it, is very high quality in terms of impurities, and machines well, and can be machined with a high level of finish. It does not gum and gall anywhere as badly as the other 300 grades. And it is more abrasion resistant than the other 300 ss offerings. A win win for us.

good finish with proper machining techniques, and higher purity.

Screws of Nickle steel???. Unless it is plating being talked about, I highly doubt it. Nickle steel is EXPENSIVE, with NO applications in small screws. Plated, yes. Probably. And plated does wear off. It is scrap grade screws at best!

 

[sig-cmt]

I would love to have an RTA or RDA made from one of the high grade cutlery steels.

What? An RDA milled from INFI? That would be a great match for my Busse collection...

 

[Ca Ike]

For what it is worth, HCigar was heralded as the top of the Kayfuns.

Now for the stainless. In NO WAY are any of them cutlery grade stainless. (Nor is most kitchen cutlery or cheaper Chinese, Pakistani, and many other foreign made low cost Knives). True Cutlery grade starts at 440-C grade, with the "C" being Cutlery. And it is no where near the top grade.
Not even the much marked 440 stainless is cutlery grade. Worst of all, the much highly toted Surgical stainless is a bunk sales pitch. It's only true meaning from it's beginning was that it did not discolor or show any oxidation at 212" degrees in the steam claves used to sterilize medical instruments.

I would love to have an RTA or RDA made from one of the high grade cutlery steels. The finish would last virtually forever. Drops wouldn't dent it, and the the threading would not jwear and become sloppy. But Dream on. It expensive, hard on machine tooling, hard to finish, and the cost would be astronomical.

Even the much favored 317ss and 317ss used in the high end watch world does not come anywhere near Cutlery Grade Criteria. It is used for it's slightly higher abrasion resistance, Precise machinability rating, and high degree of finish due to it's purity and well controlled formula in the steelmaking industry. Something that is lax in many grades of stainless. Or any steel for that matter.

None of these steels are Cutlery grade simply because there is not enough Carbon in the matrix to react to heat treat. They are all SOFT by industrial terms. Although 316 is more abrasion resistant than the other 300 series ss offerings. (303-304 and others)

Even the 440A and 440B are inferior grades. What 317 does have goi 9 hg for it, is very high quality in terms of impurities, and machines well, and can be machined with a high level of finish. It does not gum and gall anywhere as badly as the other 300 grades. And it is more abrasion resistant than the other 300 ss offerings. A win win for us.

good finish with proper machining techniques, and higher purity.

Screws of Nickle steel???. Unless it is plating being talked about, I highly doubt it. Nickle steel is EXPENSIVE, with NO applications in small screws. Plated, yes. Probably. And plated does wear off. It is scrap grade screws at best!

Your correct. I should have said surgical SS as that's the cheap cutlery grade I was referring to. I plan to have a friend at my local college do some metallurgical analysis on the steel tank parts I don't use, to find out exactly what they are but it will be a while until I do. He has to get board approval for the project since he wants to do it for a thesis paper on Chinese manufacturing prowess.

 

[qorax]

Can we now stop discussing counterfeits in this thread please?

 

[Ca Ike]

Can we now stop discussing counterfeits in this thread please?

Only if you have more new product info[emoji12] I need to know how soon to start saving [emoji39]

 

[Pinggolfer]

Can we now stop discussing counterfeits in this thread please?

I agree 100%, which is why there is a Kayfun 4 clone thread. I see no reason to discuss counterfeits and can not understand them being defended in this thread.

@qorax I haven't read all the news on the V5 but do you know if it will be a top filling atty and be available with the P3 connector? Thanks

 

[qorax]

I agree 100%, which is why there is a Kayfun 4 clone thread. I see no reason to discuss counterfeits and can not understand them being defended in this thread.

@qorax I haven't read all the news on the V5 but do you know if it will be a top filling atty and be available with the P3 connector? Thanks

I can't divulge much brother, but let me tell you this ~ that it'll be unique, changeable system, easy filling & access to deck, aesthetically more appealing than the K4 and might not be called a Kayfun

 

[ricks]

I agree 100%, which is why there is a Kayfun 4 clone thread. I see no reason to discuss counterfeits and can not understand them being defended in this thread.

@qorax I haven't read all the news on the V5 but do you know if it will be a top filling atty and be available with the P3 connector? Thanks

Authentic, Clone or Counterfeit, this forum is for vaping. Should not matter what, where and how much we paid for them. Just let it go!

 

[Pinggolfer]

I can't divulge much brother, but let me tell you this ~ that it'll be unique, changeable system, easy filling & access to deck, aesthetically more appealing than the K4 and might not be called a Kayfun

Has a release date been set? You wet my appetite for sure.