SXmini M Class (TEMP CONTROL)

[Shel]

Also, for the record, all I have ever used are the purple eFest batteries. I have six of them, and they all work like a dream. Been using them in the SX and they have worked fine as well. I'm a heavy user, and I am squeezing about 5 to 6 hours out of one battery, around 22,000 joules.

I also received my SX Mini M class yesterday, and I'm loving it! Really fantastic device.

I spent about two weeks, debating in my head wether or not I should pick up the SX. I'm fortunate in that I can easily afford it, but I'm very frugal (ok... cheap) and don't want to spend money on a mod, if it's really not going to be that much better then the istick 50w I've been using for several months.

Well, I can tell you, the SX delivers a MUCH more pleasant vape, especially with the different modes.... I also set up on TC coil, and enjoy that function as well. Love how the ohms are shown to the 100th, love the display of remaining battery life in volts, I could go on and on. Simply a fantastic device!

Haven't yet drained my first battery, an LG HE4 2500 mAh, but my joules are showing (how often do I get to say "My joules are showing", in a sentence ???) 23,500, and my battery is at 3.5v. Not sure how accurate it is to use Joules to gauge how much power your battery delivered, but it seems like it should be a good indicator!

I'll have to see if the joules show a similar number whenever the battery is about to die.

 

[refuzeandrezizt]

I also received my SX Mini M class yesterday, and I'm loving it! Really fantastic device.

I spent about two weeks, debating in my head wether or not I should pick up the SX. I'm fortunate in that I can easily afford it, but I'm very frugal (ok... cheap) and don't want to spend money on a mod, if it's really not going to be that much better then the IStick 50w I've been using for several months.

Well, I can tell you, the SX delivers a MUCH more pleasant vape, especially with the different modes.... I also set up on TC coil, and enjoy that function as well. Love how the ohms are shown to the 100th, love the display of remaining battery life in volts, I could go on and on. Simply a fantastic device!

Haven't yet drained my first battery, an LG HE4 2500 mAh, but my joules are showing (how often do I get to say "My joules are showing", in a sentence ???) 23,500, and my battery is at 3.5v. Not sure how accurate it is to use Joules to gauge how much power your battery delivered, but it seems like it should be a good indicator!

I'll have to see if the joules show a similar number whenever the battery is about to die.

I was in the exact same boat as you, and like you, I am very happy that I took the leap. This SX is a beautiful thing, both in looks and function.

The three times I have swapped the batteries, I have been around 22,000 joules. When I put them on the charger, they were at 3.4 volts. I have been using the device all day today at work, since 6:30am this morning and it is now 3:00pm, I am showing 11,253.5 joules used, and still have a little over 1/2 battery left. These purple eFest batteries have served me well.

 

[2legsshrt]

OK didn't mean to upset anyone can you tell me this. Does the M in Joules mode show you the applied voltage used to achieve the temp when you fire it. With that and the resistance you could calculate the amperage

 

[ahgnus]

I also received my SX Mini M class yesterday, and I'm loving it! Really fantastic device.

I spent about two weeks, debating in my head wether or not I should pick up the SX. I'm fortunate in that I can easily afford it, but I'm very frugal (ok... cheap) and don't want to spend money on a mod, if it's really not going to be that much better then the IStick 50w I've been using for several months.

Well, I can tell you, the SX delivers a MUCH more pleasant vape, especially with the different modes.... I also set up on TC coil, and enjoy that function as well. Love how the ohms are shown to the 100th, love the display of remaining battery life in volts, I could go on and on. Simply a fantastic device!

Haven't yet drained my first battery, an LG HE4 2500 mAh, but my joules are showing (how often do I get to say "My joules are showing", in a sentence ???) 23,500, and my battery is at 3.5v. Not sure how accurate it is to use Joules to gauge how much power your battery delivered, but it seems like it should be a good indicator!

I'll have to see if the joules show a similar number whenever the battery is about to die.

I use Samsung 25Rs, and I get around 24000J before low voltage warning. But I usually change the bettery out when I start feeling the battery sag at around 21000J. (I vape at 410F/35J/0.07 ohms/standard.) I can up my mode to powerful/powerful+ to compensate and get the same consistency vape, but it doesnt give you much run time after it any way. I just swap it out. I have gotten about 25500J by tweaking and milking past low voltage warning but it over-drained the battery to 3.1V.

 

[2legsshrt]

Nevermind didn't mean to get anyones panties in a bunch. I'll just try it tomorrow

 

[2legsshrt]

I guess you were talking to me Tony. Chill out bud

 

[tchavei]

I could be way out of line with my way of doing it, but I always look at the display after a toot and grab the voltage it is telling me it is outputting. I enter that, with the resistance it says, and then I can see the amps and watts in the ohms law calculator. For instance, I will do it now.

Just took a toot at 425 degrees, 20J, with my .09 build. It says the output volts was 2.1. So if I put that voltage and ohm into the calculator, I see that I am pulling 23.33 amps, and 49 watts.

If I up it to 25J, it says it is outputting 2.4 volts. So those numbers give me 26.67 amps, and 64 watts.

So on, and so on. I usually just adjust the joules to taste, but that gives me an idea. Like I said, I could be (and probably am) way off with this thinking. But it works for my brain anyway. As always, YMMV.

That would be great if the resistance of the coil wasn't at like 0.25 at 400F.

That's the problem here. You don't have two fixed values to calculate the third.

Sure, one can close his eyes and pretend the base line is a constant but that's as accurate as saying "I just pushed a bunch of watts/joules/whatever through this coil and it's awesome".

Some things are better left alone.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[350ZMO]

I could be way out of line with my way of doing it, but I always look at the display after a toot and grab the voltage it is telling me it is outputting. I enter that, with the resistance it says, and then I can see the amps and watts in the ohms law calculator. For instance, I will do it now.

Just took a toot at 425 degrees, 20J, with my .09 build. It says the output volts was 2.1. So if I put that voltage and ohm into the calculator, I see that I am pulling 23.33 amps, and 49 watts.

If I up it to 25J, it says it is outputting 2.4 volts. So those numbers give me 26.67 amps, and 64 watts.

So on, and so on. I usually just adjust the joules to taste, but that gives me an idea. Like I said, I could be (and probably am) way off with this thinking. But it works for my brain anyway. As always, YMMV.

Let me try it this way.

Assume for the moment that the coil was cooled down to ambient where you pressed and held the + and - buttons and got .09. The .09 is the base resistance. It does not display the real time resistance as it changes with temperature. Only the base resistance. So for the instant in time you first press the fire button you read 2.1V. Those numbers would be true. However, a few thousands of a second after that and the .09 isn't .09 anymore even though that is what is displayed.

Assuming nickel wire and the .09 was at 70F or 21C, the resistance at 425F or 218C, assuming it got to 425F, would be .09 x (1 + .006 x (218-21)) = .196

So if it got to 425F and was showing 2.1 volts then the resistance was actually .196 ohms. Power at that point is 22.5Watts and current was 10.7Amps at that instant in time. Not allowing for inefficiency or in other words additional power consumed by the chipset.

The TCR of Nickel is .006.

HTH

 

[Vlad1]

I got that. And I agree. As an actual owner of both I do believe its correct to compare vapor production experience or performance or likes/dislikes or preference or whatever you want to call it. Like comparing Ford Eco Boost to a Dodge Hemi. They both move down the road. And WRT to that, I can say the wife and I prefer the M class over the 40s. I put them on USB charge at night when we go to bed, wake up set the resistance and we vape all day no buzz outside of the nicotine. Clearly the technical approach to temperature is very different and in our case preferable. I can't explain it, am waiting for Friend Phils review but there it is.

I am hesitant to say this because I know it will generate a lot of hoopla but in the interest of just liking what works and wanting to connect with opinions of other owners of both on their experiences, our vapor production experience is almost like the M class seems to do what John said in smokeyjoes' interview that they don't do. Specifically temperature regulation. IE where you expect the output to maintain at a constant level instead of like a on/off or bang-bang. Like a cruise control where it maintains speed within 10% versus on/off surging of speed like within 90%.

Remember this in that interview?:

"The DNA40 is a temperature protected system, not a temperature regulated system. In a temperature regulated system you might say: “Okay, I’m going to keep this playing at 410 degrees,” but you would have literally minimal to no control over how much vapor comes out: if that temperature’s above the boiling point it will simply boil off everything that gets to it immediately, which isn’t really what you want: that’s not very controllable."

Which made and still makes sense. Makes me wonder if the M class really *is regulating temperature or at least trying to. As I think others have said a "smoother" vape experience. That's as good a word I can think of as any. Oh and we prefer and use soft mode.

Maybe Joe will interview YiHi.

Sure wish there was an emoticon of a yellow face pulling the pin on a hand grenade and running away...

Ya'll have fun!

I'm confused with what your stating in what I've put in bold. But as for the regulation IMO they both are doing temperature limiting just through a different approach. Could be wrong idk I'm sure the experts will tell us all in short time. Your phrase above bang-bang was in a doc I read the other day that Retird linked in the Technical thread which may be of interest to you as it seems this may be what the SXmini is doing "differently" from the DNA. “ripple regulator” or “bang-bang controller”The Advantages of Pulse Frequency Modulation for DC/DC Switching Voltage Converters | DigiKey

Take a look at the other thread if your interested there's a bit of information supporting that may be what it's doing at least to a layman. We'll know more with more thorough in depth analysis of the traces / charts. But yea, it is sooooo smooth.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...yihi-sx350j-technology-discussion-thread.html

 

[refuzeandrezizt]

Eh, I knew I was in left field kicking dust... but I usually am. Thanks for the clarification though, and now that I stop and think about it, it makes perfect sense. Oh well.

 

[HolmanGT]

I guess you were talking to me Tony. Chill out bud

2legs,

I don't really believe Tony was giving you a bad time. He was just answering your question "can I use the baseline resistance to calculate the wattage". To which he is saying no because that it the resistance at room temp. As soon as you fire the Mod the coil temp will rise substantially and so will the resistance.

So the calculated wattage if you use the baseline résistance will be way higher than it is when you are actually producing vapor.

Caveat: I am not trying to put words in Tony's mouth just to let you know that I am absolutely positive he didn't mean to offend you in any way but to answer your question in this somewhat tense subject.

Regards,
George

 

[2legsshrt]

Yep I see the problem now thanks Tony for pointing that out. The formula still wouldn't work since the resistance rises with heat applied. Like I said I will just try it and see. I have a couple of 25amp batteries if it kicks out battery to low or what ever it says.

 

[ahgnus]

2legs,

I don't really believe Tony was giving you a bad time. He was just answering your question "can I use the baseline resistance to calculate the wattage". To which he is say no because that it the resistance at room temp. As soon as you fire the Mod the coil temp will rise substantially and so will the resistance.

So the calculated wattage if you use the baseline résistance will be way higher than it is when you are actually producing vapor.

Caveat: I am not trying to put words in Tony's mouth just to let you know that I am absolutely positive he didn't mean to offend you in any way but to answer your question in this somewhat tense subject.

Regards,
George

I agree that this discussion can get heated. And I've always thought that PC and Apple comparison was appropriate for sxmini and vs40R, mod comparisons not 350J vs evolve dna40 discussion.

With that said, I think that both companies, Yihi and Evolv, made their efforts to make end-user experience more pleasant in their chip applications. Yihi by giving more option to user to enter variable intheir equation, namely the manual base resistence setting, and Evolve by making it more fool proof through automatic refinement feature. I think the pros and cons of each method are yet unclear or even irrelavent in current vaping landscape for most users, and i am sure we will all discover together and share the industry-leading techs in life-saving vaping industry.

 

[350ZMO]

I'm confused with what your stating in what I've put in bold. But as for the regulation IMO they both are doing temperature limiting just through a different approach. Could be wrong idk I'm sure the experts will tell us all in short time. Your phrase above bang-bang was in a doc I read the other day that Retird linked in the Technical thread which may be of interest to you as it seems this may be what the SXmini is doing "differently" from the DNA. “ripple regulator” or “bang-bang controller”The Advantages of Pulse Frequency Modulation for DC/DC Switching Voltage Converters | DigiKey

Take a look at the other thread if your interested there's a bit of information supporting that may be what it's doing at least to a layman. We'll know more with more thorough in depth analysis of the traces / charts. But yea, it is sooooo smooth.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...yihi-sx350j-technology-discussion-thread.html

Yeah I've been reading it. Limiting and regulation are different. Regulation is like a cruise control on your car. Regulation is trying to hold a value and will adjust throttle up and down to maintain the power at that level +/-10%. Limiting is like an rpm limiter where at certain rpm it drops ignition while momentum keeps going and until rpms slow down then it comes back on. There is a noticeable gap and associated surge and oscillation with a limiter. It's not trying to maintain a set rpm it just drops power when a certain rpm is reached. In other words Evolv stated they don't do temperature regulation because "isn't really what you want". I was tongue in cheek wondering if YiHi is trying to do temperature regulation. That might account for the smoothness and the frequency modulation. Need Joe to interview YiHi!

 

[Vlad1]

Yeah I've been reading it. Limiting and regulation are different. Regulation is like a cruise control on your car. Regulation is trying to hold a value and will adjust throttle up and down to maintain the power at that level +/-10%. Limiting is like an rpm limiter where at certain rpm it drops ignition while momentum keeps going and until rpms slow down then it comes back on. There is a noticeable gap and associated surge and oscillation with a limiter. It's not trying to maintain a set rpm it just drops power when a certain rpm is reached. In other words Evolv stated they don't do temperature regulation because "isn't really what you want". I was tongue in cheek wondering if YiHi is trying to do temperature regulation. That might account for the smoothness and the frequency modulation. Need Joe to interview YiHi!

I think I understand what your saying now. Initially I thought you were saying:

You prefered the SXmini m
That the SXmini may do Temp Regulation
Regulation really isn't what you want
You wondered if the SXmini m is regulating and it's smoother

In that order and it seemed to go full circle to me. So I was confuzzled. lol

To bad Pbusardo didn't get to take a tour of Yihi plant while he was over there. I would have been interested in that for sure.

 

[nic_fix]

I just wanted to pop in and say I love both the s class and m class. so glad I can rely on something because dna40 has not provided that for me. the m-class in particular is just great. I wish someone could put the 350j in a very fancy mod. the sx mini is very nice anyways. yippy for yihi!(okay that's corny but you know I dig it).

 

[2legsshrt]

Now I have another stupid question. Is anyone in the US selling tempered wire yet? I just set up my tank Kanger STM and I had a heck of a time with standard 28awg so I went to the only tempered wire I had 29awg and got it the first time. 1 less wrap and came out to .12 on the button. So I am pretty much ready for the vape mail tomorrow.

 

[HolmanGT]

Now I have another stupid question. Is anyone in the US selling tempered wire yet? I just set up my tank Kanger STM and I had a heck of a time with standard 28awg so I went to the only tempered wire I had 29awg and got it the first time. 1 less wrap and came out to .12 on the button. So I am pretty much ready for the vape mail tomorrow.

Legs,

Not that I know of. I am not sure why not it seems to me if someone here started stocking it they would be able to sell it as quick as they could stock it.

 

[puffon]

Now I have another stupid question. Is anyone in the US selling tempered wire yet? I just set up my tank Kanger STM and I had a heck of a time with standard 28awg so I went to the only tempered wire I had 29awg and got it the first time. 1 less wrap and came out to .12 on the button. So I am pretty much ready for the vape mail tomorrow.

No, but someone mentioned they spoke to Temco, and they are looking into it.

 

[dr g]

The max wattage of the SX in temp mode is 50w + the powerful mode boost, which puts it around the 60w available in wattage mode.