SXmini M Class (TEMP CONTROL)

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dam718

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One of the ways to see if you are having a hot leg issue is to try the water test.

Throw some new dry wicks on the build. re-establish the baseline resistance with the new wicks. Set temp to around 400F. Go around mid power on the Joules, 25 should be fine.

Then saturate your wicks with water. A LOT of water... LoL

Usually when I am doing this I have the wicks really long so I can kinda run the wicks under the faucet while I am testing for total saturation the whole time I am firing. You may not be able to do this with a vertical build like that.

What you should observe when you fire is that the temp should rise up to somewhere around 200-220 (boiling point of water) and stall out, never getting much higher... Maybe a little higher or a little lower, but it should most certainly NEVER reach 400.

If you're still popping off the temp control, observe your coils for any glowing anywhere. If they are glowing anywhere, that is the source of your rapid increase in resistance, and thus the SXmini believes the temp of the coil has also increased. The most common point I have found glowing is the legs. And that has only been with 30AWG wire, and only when I was using more than ~17-19J of power. 10-15J was fine. Twisted 30AWG didn't give me any issues at all, and I would suspect that 28AWG would fare better than 30 as well. All my builds were clean, non contact coils and shouldn't have experienced hot legs at all, but they did. Maybe that's the 30AWG nickel being a bit more sensitive to the conductivity of the juice than Kanthal or NiChrome is?

Also, high VG juices are going to need to be vaped at higher temps. So if you're using a 100% VG juice, I would say a temp from 500-550F sounds about normal. That's where the juice starts to vaporize. Use the Joules setting to control the heat and density of the vapor.
 

dam718

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One other question - when I use powerful and powerful+ in kanthal mode it hits hard immediately then backs off after a few seconds like it should. In joules mode with nickel it starts weak, bumps up after a second, then bumps back down after a few seconds. Why would it do that?

I've observed this as well. In temp control mode, I leave mine on standard. In the PBusardo review video it shows there being less voltage applied in powerful, and even less still in powerful+ during the first 2 seconds in temp control mode. Doesn't make much sense. In standard it ramps up to the proper voltage within the first second and stays steady. Looks like the powerful/powerful+ modes don't work as intended in TC, at least with the current firmware revision.
 

Croak

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Regarding airflow, if it's just flowing up one side of those coils, the average resistance thing becomes a factor...it's going to be cooled on one side, but hotter on the other, and that's going to play hell with your resistance average.

What's this average thing, you ask? Well, you know that these mods monitor the increase in resistance to get an idea of the temperature of the coil. But they do it by the average resistance of the whole loop (mod, atty, coil, legs). So if there's inadequate or imbalanced airflow, it's going to skew the average.

Then, adding a second coil to the mix increases the chances of inaccuracy, because it's nearly impossible to get two coils firing identically, and there's just plain more wire in the loop.

A good TC build, IMHO, is one that tries to minimize the variables as much as possible. Single coil, uniform airflow, consistent wicking, solid 510 connection, minimal leg length, solid terminal connections. Fall short in one of these, and you start having problems. Something like the Kanger Subtank Mini is the poster child for this sort of thing, as are dual vertical coils that don't have "chimney" airflow.
 

dam718

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Boiling point of PG is ~371F
Boiling point of VG is ~554F

I use a 50/50 juice, and my temp levels out around 460F.

Now, I'm not sure if the scale would be linear as you add VG to PG as far as how it effects the boiling point, but doing some silly math I just calculated:

554-371 = 183 - So there is a difference of 183F between the boiling points.

If adding 50% VG to the PG increases the boiling point of the juice by half the delta, then that calculation would be

371 + (183 * .5) = 462.5F

So, **IF** it is a linear change, for your juice being 30PG/70VG

371 + (183 * .7) = 499.1F

Take that for what it's worth. Like I said, I'm not sure if it's a linear curve or not as you add VG to PG, but I'd say it's a close approximation.
 

Jbryant705

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I can really appreciate people who get as detailed and mathematical as you into this whole thing. I've had some people tell me to stop worrying so much and just vape. But that's just not who I am. I'm mathematical and a perfectionist. Seems we have something in common
 

TheotherSteveS

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How could you do a dual vertical without chimney airflow? Or maybe mine does. My airflow is close to the middle of the coil. It's not starting near the base from what I can tell.

So if I want to try a single coil 28g build what do you suggest? How many wraps of 28g on a ⅛" bit do you think?
I think Croak means airflow through the centre of the coil rather than around the outisde - think of the atlantis coils where the wick is wrapped around the coil rather than going through the middle!
 

Jbryant705

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My answer is that I wouldn't do a dual vertical with nickel. :) Seriously. Just have to accept the fact that not all good Kanthal atomizers make for good nickel atomizers.

I saw a guy on Facebook having success with 12 wrap 28g on 2.5mm dual on his Origen so I haven't given up hope. And I've seen people do successful nickel builds with mesh on Origennys. My only attys right now are a tugboat v2, Origen v3 dripper, and Origen v2 genny. And I've been considering selling one to get a Marquis. I'm a big fan of verts. So this is rather disappointing if that's the case.
 

WideO

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I got a shipping notice last night, and 30 minutes later my VF threw a wobble (as if it knew? ;) ): the Down button is constantly firing, it auto-scrolled to 1 W, and then down to the DNA serial number. Nothing I did (remove batteries etc) could cure it. Apparently not an uncommon problem, so I guess it's going back for repair.

The SX did arrive about an hour ago. Imagine my "what the heck?" moment when - while starting to adjust watts - they were going down without touching the button... Took me 3 seconds to realize that was the gravity sensor at work. :D Ho hum.

Anyway, kanthal works great, and my first build on the Lemo2 - which I had ordered at the same time - for some reason works miles better than all my previous tries in the last 5 months. I did a six wrap/3mm/28 tempered/spaced coil, SX clocked it in at 0.081 (that seems about right). Great vape at 20J/400F with airflow 1/4th open. Firing without taking a puff shows a temp hoovering around 370F. I know these indicated temps are relative, but just by feel/vapor production/taste (I'm highly allergic to even the slightest bit of scratchiness of the vape) I would say that this is working just fine.

I quickly noticed that the Powerful and Powerfu+ modes in Joules are a bit erratic (slower ramp-up instead of faster - consistent with Phil's graphs) - probably a bug. Nothing major, as Standard works perfectly fine.

Next test will be NI on the KF4 (with the fix from SteamTuners): despite all imperfections I love the taste I get from the KF, so it would be great if I get that one to work consistently. Will also try a slightly lower resistance (close to the 0.065) to see if it gets even better (might need 26g for that though, especially if I go for 4mm)

Device looks great and smaller than I expected. No sleeve imperfections it seems. Battery cover is a bit of a drag. Heavy, sure, but I don't seem to mind.

Overall first impression quite favorable.
 

dam718

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Keep in mind, the SXmini can fire a bit lower than the DNA40 as well. So you have a bit more wiggle room. You could get away with dual 10 wraps of 28AWG on your 1/8" bit and be good to go. Give or take depending on the reading you get from your SX. Mine has been fairly spot on with the Steam Engine calculator. When dealing with resistance this low, you have to consider different batches of the same size wire will have minor fluctuations in the resistance per foot as well. That could be where you're seeing a variance between what the SXmini is reading as opposed to the calculated resistance from steam engine. And, the ambient temp of the room where you're setting the resistance could play a factor. You keep it cold in your house? :)
 

Croak

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I saw a guy on Facebook having success with 12 wrap 28g on 2.5mm dual on his Origen so I haven't given up hope. And I've seen people do successful nickel builds with mesh on Origennys. My only attys right now are a tugboat v2, Origen v3 dripper, and Origen v2 genny. And I've been considering selling one to get a Marquis. I'm a big fan of verts. So this is rather disappointing if that's the case.

I own a Marquis. Love it with Kanthal. Absolutely awful results with Ni200. Air comes in from the back and then up, leaving the front hot. Coil legs are very long. That huge mass of metal that the positive post is on acts a a big heat reservoir.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk
 

Jbryant705

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I own a Marquis. Love it with Kanthal. Absolutely awful results with Ni200. Air comes in from the back and then up, leaving the front hot. Coil legs are very long. That huge mass of metal that the positive post is on acts a a big heat reservoir.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk

Well that makes me sad [emoji17]. What drippers do you recommend for nickel? Or should I just get a subtank? Lol
 

TheotherSteveS

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We that makes me sad [emoji17]. What drippers do you recommend for nickel? Or should I just get a subtank? Lol

Magma, single coil with both air holes fully open. Easy, stable, effective, good juice capacity, doesnt leak (if you put some extra cotton in the well its even better). Good clones available! What's not to like?!?! lol.

In fact, I have had good success on a lot of different RDAs in cluding mephisto v3, manta v2, even a veritas but all were single coils!! Dual coils do work and there are a few people who have posted to that effect but, as Croak says, they are more difficult to use because the sensitivity of the TP mod to slight variances in temp and therefore resistance means that the buolds have to be, essentially, perfect!
 
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jpcwon

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What's up guys,

I just took delivery of a new M Class and I absolutely love it! Temp control works excellent and it's just a great mod all around. I just have one minor issue with mine. The gravity sensor is backwards! So when I want to increase wattage/Joules I have to tilt to the Left, and to decrease I have to tilt to the right. I was just wondering if this is normal? I tried changing the screen orientation to see if this has an effect, but it does not. Thanks for any help you guys can give me!
 

Braddahbill

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What's up guys,

I just took delivery of a new M Class and I absolutely love it! Temp control works excellent and it's just a great mod all around. I just have one minor issue with mine. The gravity sensor is backwards! So when I want to increase wattage/Joules I have to tilt to the Left, and to decrease I have to tilt to the right. I was just wondering if this is normal? I tried changing the screen orientation to see if this has an effect, but it does not. Thanks for any help you guys can give me!

Thats how mine works, when you hold it vertical and I think the vertical orientation is the correct way to hold it when using the gravity sensor.
 
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