I would say so, yes... Not so much in that there are two completely different electrical circuits on board, but there are two distinctly different algorithms in the firmware that perform the calculations necessary for each mode. Absolutely...
SXmini M Class (TEMP CONTROL)
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I would say so, yes... Not so much in that there are two completely different electrical circuits on board, but there are two distinctly different algorithms in the firmware that perform the calculations necessary for each mode. Absolutely...
This talk about joules vs watts has me intrigued and I can see what dr g is talking about, and I'm confused as to what the device could be doing.
I'll try to verbalize my confusion - for example - 30J is set(We can all agree that 30J = 30W*1 second)
So if I have the device set to 30J, what is the device delivering when I press the power button for .25 seconds? Vs if I hold down the button for 0.5 seconds vs 1 second?.....
Is it ramping down the power as time goes by to maintain the 30J it is supposed to deliver during that 1 second? That's scary because of the drain on the battery, but I can't see how it can do that realistically at different joule settings.
Or maybe J may not mean joules at all in the traditional sense, and it is indeed Watts, but.. Edited by ECF Moderator...
Just thinking out loud, as the geek in me is squirming its way out.
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I'll try to verbalize my confusion - for example - 30J is set(We can all agree that 30J = 30W*1 second)
So if I have the device set to 30J, what is the device delivering when I press the power button for .25 seconds? Vs if I hold down the button for 0.5 seconds vs 1 second?.....
Is it ramping down the power as time goes by to maintain the 30J it is supposed to deliver during that 1 second? That's scary because of the drain on the battery, but I can't see how it can do that realistically at different joule settings.
Or maybe J may not mean joules at all in the traditional sense, and it is indeed Watts, but.. Edited by ECF Moderator...
Just thinking out loud, as the geek in me is squirming its way out.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Civil discussion, and comparisons are to be expected..There have been complaints from other members regarding folks from "other camps" coming into device-specific TP threads, and turning the discussion into discourses on patent law, IP theft, ect.. It's not fair to members who only want information / discussion on whatever device they're interested in..
..........
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I think of it like this...
Say you were to get in your car and set the cruise control to 50MPH. You have to stop at a red light, but after you get moving you hit the resume button and BAM, you're going 50MPH again.
It doesn't know for sure that you're going to drive for an hour, or if you ever made it to the 50 mile mark, but it knows exactly how fast 50MPH is... Just because there is a time factor in the calculation for MPH doesn't mean it's not able to be measured in short spurts, or that it's not able to be measured without knowing how long you're going to drive.
I don't like to make assumptions, but here is what I think is happening.
We know that, for example, 30J is equal to 30W for 1 second. Don't get too wrapped up on the time factor. The device knows exactly how much power needs to be applied to achieve 30W per second. Are you gonna pump 30W through in .25 seconds? Nope, and that can be seen on the Joule meter in the lower left of the screen.
The reason I think Joules is preferred over Watts in the TC mode is because the load is in constant flux. You can see the voltage shooting all over the place as the temperature changes. When your car has the cruise control set at 50MPH, does the engine just stay at a constant RPM? Nope, it changes quite a bit based on load which changes if you're going uphill and downhill. I think watts is a fine measurement for a fixed resistance, and I appreciate that YiHi is thinking a bit outside the box by using a time based unit of measure that is more appropriate for a "cruise control" type of vaping experience.
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@dam718, Was trying to think of a short analogy of my thinking but you came up with one.
I think to me if you get past the historical way of thinking that 30 watts is 30 watts, when it actually it is not with temperature limiting on the other temp limiting devices.
Then the setting of 30j on the SXmini m is not necessarily always 30j either. But since the device can time the duration of the firing it can know what the joules / sec were.
Clear as mud?
I think to me if you get past the historical way of thinking that 30 watts is 30 watts, when it actually it is not with temperature limiting on the other temp limiting devices.
Then the setting of 30j on the SXmini m is not necessarily always 30j either. But since the device can time the duration of the firing it can know what the joules / sec were.
Clear as mud?
Or, keep it simple.
1. Ignore the big 'J' on the screen
2. Adjust the number up or down until you find a vape you like
3. Profit
1. Ignore the big 'J' on the screen
2. Adjust the number up or down until you find a vape you like
3. Profit
@dam817, Was trying to think of a short analogy of my thinking but you came up with one.
I think to me if you get past the historical way of thinking that 30 watts is 30 watts, when it actually it is not with temperature limiting on the other temp limiting devices.
Then the setting of 30j on the SXmini m is not necessarily always 30j either. But since the device can time the duration of the firing it can know what the joules / sec were.
Clear as mud?
I think where you're confusing people is by saying Joules / sec... That's like saying "How many MPH did you go in an hour?"
Mud is fun
Sob!! Stupid Tapatalk screwed up my long reply!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think where you're confusing people is by saying Joules / sec... That's like saying "How many MPH did you go in an hour?"
Mud is fun
Yea your probably right. Getting pretty late I can hardly think or see the screen right now. Probably should review whatever I attempted to convey tomorrow.
Let me try again. Dam718 - thanks for your reply and Fireb1rd sent me a message with a plausible explanation too. Let me try to geek this out to see whether I can understand what you're saying.
P(W)=(V^2/R) and Energy(J) = P*t, therefore energy = (V^2/R) *t.
Now since we are not setting watts here, and the resistance is changing as it heats up, the SX is initially applying maximum voltage followed by dramatically reduced voltage to be able to maintain the corresponding W/sec(which is actually joules).
(I'm just trying to understand the differences so am bringing up the other device type only from a technical standpoint.)
The other device type sets the wattage, so the voltage stays constant until temp limit is reached.
This would explain why the SX frequently doesn't hit the temp limit while the other does, and also why the SX may feel warmer from a vape standpoint.
FASCINATING. Completely two different potential approaches. However I may be completely wrong too. Can't wait for pbusardos video!
Mods - if you think this is in the wrong thread, please feel free to move it. I am simply trying to figure out the differences and not start a which is better war.
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P(W)=(V^2/R) and Energy(J) = P*t, therefore energy = (V^2/R) *t.
Now since we are not setting watts here, and the resistance is changing as it heats up, the SX is initially applying maximum voltage followed by dramatically reduced voltage to be able to maintain the corresponding W/sec(which is actually joules).
(I'm just trying to understand the differences so am bringing up the other device type only from a technical standpoint.)
The other device type sets the wattage, so the voltage stays constant until temp limit is reached.
This would explain why the SX frequently doesn't hit the temp limit while the other does, and also why the SX may feel warmer from a vape standpoint.
FASCINATING. Completely two different potential approaches. However I may be completely wrong too. Can't wait for pbusardos video!
Mods - if you think this is in the wrong thread, please feel free to move it. I am simply trying to figure out the differences and not start a which is better war.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Not so sure about that, as far as the SXmini is concerned. What I think it's doing is always applying the correct amount of voltage necessary to apply set power per second. So it's not applying MAX voltage, but instead always applying "correct" voltage to achieve the given Joule value. So set at 30J, for example, if the coil starts at .11 Ohms at ambient temperature, it will apply 1.82V for a value of 30W, which will heat the coil, and the temp will rise along with resistance. It dynamically adjusts the voltage to maintain 30W. Mine usually reads around 3.02V at the end of the fire cycle, which would suggest that the coil fluctuates in value from .11 to .3 ohms as the temperature of the coil rises. You can see it at the very beginning of the fire cycle it is a much lower voltage than what is displayed when you let the button go.
I've also come to the conclusion that the temperature isn't so much a measure of the temperature of the coil as it is the temperature at which the juice vaporizes. We often see the temperature stall out on the SXmini, and never reach our set temp. This is the vaporizing temp of your liquid, where it stalls. Once all the liquid is gone, the temp will rise up and hit the temp limit that we set, and the voltage will get shut down. If we were heating water, for example, the coil will never get hotter than 212F until all the water is gone, only then can the coil get hotter than the water. We can apply more power to the coil, which won't effect the temperature at which water changes state, but WILL effect the rate at which the water evaporates. So changing the Joules allows us to vaporize the juice faster / produce more vapor. The temp that the juice vaporizes stays the same.
Geek out on that
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This isn't exactly what or how the temp limiting is working. I've said I won't state on the board what I think. But more the statements on the vape "feels warmer than a dna40"
sorry for the comparison but to compare the first two major products in n a category is natural; especially when one is well understood and the other is a mystery.
The dna40 unlike the dna30 has a "ramp up" so when you set it at say 35w and 400 degrees it takes a few milliseconds to get to 35 w.
The sx chip on the powerful mode jumps in at your setting plus 10% for the first second I'm powerful plus it gives you -I think- the setting plus 10% for 2 seconds . I'm thinking that's the reason for the vape " feeling " warmer.
Well...it is off the bat. Hahaha
sorry for the comparison but to compare the first two major products in n a category is natural; especially when one is well understood and the other is a mystery.
The dna40 unlike the dna30 has a "ramp up" so when you set it at say 35w and 400 degrees it takes a few milliseconds to get to 35 w.
The sx chip on the powerful mode jumps in at your setting plus 10% for the first second I'm powerful plus it gives you -I think- the setting plus 10% for 2 seconds . I'm thinking that's the reason for the vape " feeling " warmer.
Well...it is off the bat. Hahaha
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What a beautiful morning.
How are you Guys and Gals? More importantly, how are your Sx's?
I spent the night hunting for the best deal here in Europe. I still feel its probably too tall/big for my delicate hands. Does anybody know of any vendor starting to work on alternative mods using the sx350j chip?
Thx
Regards
Tony
How are you Guys and Gals? More importantly, how are your Sx's?
I spent the night hunting for the best deal here in Europe. I still feel its probably too tall/big for my delicate hands. Does anybody know of any vendor starting to work on alternative mods using the sx350j chip?
Thx
Regards
Tony
My SX arrived this morning via FedEx... The two REO's (Avril and Camila) are chatting to the new SX and getting to know each other!
Lots of questions to follow after I have read the whole thread! ;-)
Lots of questions to follow after I have read the whole thread! ;-)
eerrrr...wot? Why did he leve that in the vid. He manages to get it right later... Check out that 26g coil....LMAO!
I would strongly urge anyone new to the SX350 series of chips and/or temperature controlled devices to skip this video. It will be horribly confusing as the video runneth over with wrong. 20:06 in pretty much sums up the debacle quite accurately.
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