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Temperature control: looking for some advice.

Discussion in 'Temperature Control' started by Waxxiii, Jan 18, 2016.

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  1. suprtrkr

    suprtrkr ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    I am not a super duper TC guy, but that's my understanding. For example, my Koopor Plus has the SS code for 304 installed in the firmware, and I didn't get it running right until I input the TCR for 316.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Waxxiii

    Waxxiii Senior Member

    Jan 13, 2016
    Ahh man, this sounds complicated. Do I need to know this stuff?

    Another question, I might sound a bit naive but does any battery charger work ok. You know, the ones you would pick up at ASDA/Walmart for example, or would I need something dedicated to high drain batteries? Why is it better to avoid on board charging?
     
  3. suprtrkr

    suprtrkr ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Lol, you don't need to know it until you do, like if it doesn't work. But it's not a problem, because if it doesn't work, just come tell us and we'll help figure it out. To expand on the shorthand you didn't understand: 304 and 316 are two different Stainless alloys. These (among others) are all available in vape wire sizes and work just fine. All metals, including various alloys of the same metal, vary their resistance to electrical current with temperature. They do this at different rates, the technical term for which is the Temperature Coefficient of Resistance or TCR. In order for the TC algorithm in the mod software to work correctly, it must know the TCR for the wire you are using. The mod I was taking about had the code for one grade of Stainless, and I had to change it to the other to make it work. So now you know more, but you still don't need to. That TCR thing, BTW, is why some mods only do one or two kinds of wire. Newer mods have all three codes inputted and have a means of setting the TCR manually should this be required. :)

    As to chargers, I strongly suggest you buy either an Xtar or Nitecore brand charger. Where you buy them is not important; they can be safely ordered online if this is convenient, or purchased at a shop. Both are quite common and one or the other, if not both, would be available in any quality battery shop. My personal favorite is the Nitecore D4, closely followed by it's near twin brother the I4. The only difference between them that I can see-- I have them sitting side by side as I type-- is the D4 has a digital battery data readout, while the I4 makes do with a few LEDs. I also have an Xtar VC4, which is at my woman's house. That one has the digital readout as well, and it also has a brother with LEDs. The "4" in all those names refers to the number of batteries that can be charged at one time. All of the above models also come in a two battery configuration if you think this will suit you needs better. The 2 battery styles are a tiny bit cheaper. I don't like to use the onboard charger in my mods because I think the stand alone charger does a better job of charging my batteries than a dime-sized charger board in a mod; and using the vape-while-charge function tethers you to the wall with a cord, or you can't use the mod while it's charging. Lithium chemistry batteries are expensive, and dangerous if mishandled. To me it merely makes sense to take good care of them. I like the Nitecore chargers best because the Xtar ones take 5v current from a wall wart, like you'd charge a cell phone, while the Nitecore ones plug into a regular wall socket and convert voltage on board (US and European cords are available for both, of course, plus 12vdc for automobile use). Plus, while the Xtar probably has better electronics in it, it is so sensitive to input voltage it will slow charging way down if it detects a ripple in its incoming power feed. I found that feature to be annoying in practice. It can be reset just by disconnecting it and reconnecting it, and it will charge at full steam again... until the next time. But to do that, you have to notice it has started charging slowly, meaning you have to watch it. With the Nitecore, you plug it in, bung in the batteries and take them out when it's through, end of story.
     
  4. zanzi

    zanzi Full Member

    Jan 18, 2016
    Some of the dedicated chargers can charge your household NiMHs etc.
    eg - a good cheap portable fave- $6.88 Authentic XTAR MC1 PIus Single Slot Li-ion Battery Charger - 0.5A/1A output / black at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping can resurrect over-discharged batts you've left too long between uses.
    Take your time buying 4 slot chargers, cos there's a move to batts few support.
    You just need a usb wall wart with at least one .5 or 1 Amp port.
    People use 2 Amp phone chargers.

    Because I trust a dedicated charger more than I trust on-board charging-
    & the connection can wear out.
    (and if something goes wrong- quicker & easier to replace a charger than a fave mod)
    Also, convenience- swap a batt- no waiting.
    I was charging 2 of 4 batts about once a week in my 4 slot- (& iStick 30, if needed at the same time.)
    Now I charge one of my 2 Samsungs every day in the one slot-
    It's never flat, but is just a way of having a fresh, rested high-drain batt every day.
    (Until I have another TC mod, I don't use the Evic at home much- much as I love it)
     
  5. daviedog

    daviedog Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Sep 2, 2013
    Florida
    Xtar VP2
    Input 100-240 V ac
    Output 12 V dc 1000 mA

    Seperate 5 volt receptacle output to charge cell phone with 18650 in & power off..
    There is no finer charger for consumer use. VP2 2bay
     
  6. Nibiru2012

    Nibiru2012 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 15, 2013
    The Oort Cloud
    I've been doing TC (temp control) vaping for about a year now and really like it.
    The best results I've achieved are with Nickel wire and stainless steel wire. I will try a Ti coil soon to see if the Kbox does a better job than the other MODs I've tried.
    I have owned several TC Box MODs and right now I only have two: the Reauleaux DNA200 and the Kangertech KBox 120 TC.

    You'll get much better flavor vapes and control with TC coils. Plus no burnt wicking!

    For starters I recommend the KangerTech KBox 120 TC box MOD.
    I bought it strictly to try out their SS wire option and so far, for me it's the best one I've tried.
    The SS317L coils I've built are around .45 - .54 ohms. For me these give the best vape with no issues.
    The SS coils give a nice warm vape and lots of flavor too.
    Also this MOD will do TC on NiCr coils too. Personally haven't yet tried that though, IMHO I think that SS coils are replacing most other coils. I do have some Ti wire and may try a coil or two.

    There's also a 200 Watt model but if you're doing TC it will never need that high of a wattage, only in VW mode does it need it. When in VW mode going to 200 watts the chipset will revert to PWM (pulse width modulation) mode which makes the "rattlesnake" hissing sound.

    The Cigabuy website has it for $34.26 plus shipping of around $6. About a 10-14 shipping time. I ordered mine on Jan. 8 and received it on Jan. 19
    There's a coupon code 6OFFNOW that will knock the price down to $32.21

    SPECS:
    • Temperature control range: 200 - 600°F
    • Temperature control function supporting the Nickel, Titanium, Stainless steel and Ni-chrome wire.
    • Variable Wattage:7-120W
    • Spring loaded 510 threading connector
    • Support 0.05 ohm coil
    • Temperature regulation of 1000 times per second makes the taste much softer.
    • 360kHz high speed synchronous DC-DC control mode, ultra low output ripple, maximum efficiency is more than 97%.
    • Smart identification and balancing battery charging, matching any model of adapter from 300mA to 2A, the maximum battery charging current is up to 1.8A.
    • PCB with unique serial number of global anti-counterfeiting, guarantee quality.
    • Ultra low quiescent current, under the state of quiescence much reduce stand by power dissipate.
    • Safety protection include: High temperature , reverse , short circuit , low voltage , battery charging and discharge protection of single cell.
    • Adopting large number of TI Infineon and other high stability performance chips from the United States.
    • With USB upgrade function.
    • Compatible with 2pcs 18650 batteries (battery not included)
    [​IMG]
     
  7. edyle

    edyle ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    1: do you need to know about tcr?
    No.
    tcr is just the numbers for the particular type of wire you use.
    When you wrap a new coil with some wire that the mod is already calibrated for, and if you know the tcr of the wire you used, then you can input the tcr value in the mod, and the mod temperature numbers will be correct.
    Otherwise the temperature numbers will just be inaccurate, but you can still adjust up or down to taste.

    2: does any battery charger work ok.
    No.
    When it comes to safety, it's all about the lithium battery.
    Lithium batteries should be treated with respect.
    Lithium batteries are used in cellphones, laptops, cordless power tools, and you might have seen in the news some incidents involving 'hoverboard's.
    Charging is an important part of lithium battery safety.
    Don't skip on a good charger.
    Nitecore and xtar are two reputable brands.

    3: On board charging is a convenience but lithium batteries are better off with some relaxation time between charging and discharging activities
     
  8. dleister1981

    dleister1981 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 16, 2015
    Michigan USA
    my advice......if you are a vaper and your happy and content with what you do now steer clear of TC altogether. you'll never find two mods that do TC the same, theres investment in wire and cotton or coils, new tanks/rta's/rda's to use the wire because some atty's have bad conductivity for TC. AND at the end of the day its not some amazing difference in vape quality, and in some case of juice wire combo it isn't close to as good as with the same set up using VW mode with some kanthal wire/coils. if you dont switch your mod off some mods will monitor the coil for up to ten minutes which does shorten the vape time of an 18650 because its constantly sending a pulse through coil. cold weather can change your vape if the mod "learns" the coils resistance and the mod doesnt have an internal thermostat. some wire that you cant dry fire will hotspot and burn the crap out of your cotton anyway so your not saving yourself there, dual coils have to be exactly the same in terms of resistance one will hotspot and the other function as intended. then theres the question of chemical safety. i for one will not vape on nickel, its a toxic substance, and while theres no proof of leeching into vape in our purpose for it, theres no need to chance it. chemicaly created titanium oxide can be small enough to penetrate cell walls, and if it does that then it too is toxic, there is no situation where chemically created TI oxide should appear in vaping. stainless steel contains nickel, and at extreme temps can leech nickel off, once again in our realm of normal use you SHOULD be safe in that regard. you have to ask your self if the risks that are there are something you are willing to deal with for a vape that 99% of the time isnt any better or worse, with mods that can be confusing, when we're in a time you can go grab a old fashioned kanthal pre built for your subtank that will never dry hit and vapes away quite the thing.
     
  9. Hitcat44

    Hitcat44 mere Pawn in Game of Life Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 9, 2015
    Ft. Vape-WKY
    :glug:

    don't do it Cat,,,, pay no attention to the blatant jack-assery...
    remember what Twain
    said.
     
  10. dleister1981

    dleister1981 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 16, 2015
    Michigan USA
    no jack-assery, everything in my post is truth and opinions are left to the reader
     
  11. Hitcat44

    Hitcat44 mere Pawn in Game of Life Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 9, 2015
    Ft. Vape-WKY
    Yeah,,, Sure,,, Right,,, "Truth"... o_O
    Whatever You "Say".
     
  12. edyle

    edyle ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    ^^^^^^^^^^^
    To the OP;
    above is a note of caution about tc.

    Those tc mods also include vw mode, so in terms of buying a mod, getting one that also does tc makes sense.

    But as I mentioned before, there is the ijoy solo mini, which does vw, regular tc, and it also does tc on kanthal; so far it's the only device on the market doing tc on regular ohms. So you don't have to experiment with special wire and go very low ohms and voltage.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. dleister1981

    dleister1981 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 16, 2015
    Michigan USA
    yes, truth, no trash talking, no "well i think", everything i said about the wires is fact, everything i said about mods is fact, as there are some that do everything i mentioned, and my advice is the advice i would give anyone
     
  14. dleister1981

    dleister1981 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 16, 2015
    Michigan USA
    i would look at the Isolo as "taste control" for kanthal and not "temp control" as it learns you habits and uses them to guess if the coils dry
     
  15. BigEgo

    BigEgo Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2013
    Alabama
    Pick up one of these. Just google around and find the best price. Personally, I would get the 4 bay version because as you continue along your vaping journey, you will find yourself upgrading devices and charging more batteries. Such a charger should run you between $25 and $30. (Amazon has the D4 for $30).

    Onboard charging on most of these devices isn't recommended because most of the manufacturers (except for Evolv and a couple others) do not include safe charging circuits on the board. There's been numerous reports of fires from people charging directly on the mod itself (iStick50 for example -- tons of people had their mods meltdown).
     
  16. Hitcat44

    Hitcat44 mere Pawn in Game of Life Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 9, 2015
    Ft. Vape-WKY
    "Factual" ONLY in the most Basic of Senses.
    It's not your Lay Generalizations Truth takes Issue with,,, It's your obvious Bias to the Anti, blatant Obfuscations, and purposefully misleading "Scare-Tactic" Extrapolations/Connotations.
    The ECF Community is the LAST place where such "Stuff" is needed, proper, or helpful.
    Education, or Helping if you will, is NOT achieved or fostered via Agendas of Indoctrination or achieved through Propaganda laden "Advice".

    All that aside, my apologies to the OP for the corrective Aside.
    All the best in your Search for proper and helpful Advice & Direction into the world of TC Vaping. It IS worth it (and safe) I assure you.
    Check out this Thread: Titanium wire, vaping and safety
    for true Direction and Advice on Ti and TC Vaping in general. Including a lot on APVs/Mods and other TC Wire types as well. A long read yes but loaded with awesome experience and true un-biased Facts from actual knowledgable & experienced TC Vapers. Some are actual Engineers, Metalurgists, Scientists, and many others from all walks of Life who have vaped with all type of TC Wire safely and enjoyably for years.

    Whatever you decide, all the best to you, Enjoy, & Vape On :thumb:
     
  17. dleister1981

    dleister1981 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 16, 2015
    Michigan USA
    i have read the your quoted thread, and i am an experienced TC vaper, and i say this is the exact proper place for these conversations to take place, its the premise that these forums were started on, anyone starting the journey down the TC vaping path needs to be properly educated in what they are doing, theres no scare tactics there just a presentation of the truth about the wires, if i were using scare tactics i sure as hell wouldn't say "used in our purpose, you should never see this effect". theres no need to continue with the illusion that "this is newer so it must be better" when you can get just as much satisfaction from a mech mod as you can a dna 200. with all the possible dangers being added to what was a very safe alternative to smoking. the industry is move ten times the speed, or more, of the research being put into it in a real lab answering the questions that need to be answered. no metalurgist can tell you 100% that nickel wont leech, either in nickel or stainless wire, its not their field of expertise. the metals the were created as heating wires have undergone these tests 70 years ago, and the "newer"" TC wires have never been evaluated for these purposes. you implying that i have a lack of knowledge based on my opinion is a mistake. and so you know for future reference education is achieved through an under standing of all aspects of the subject of study, good, bad or other wise. i stand on my post and feel it gives the person that is thinking "should i?" or "shouldn't i?" the other side of the coin. instead of the supported "blow sick clouds brah" or "look at my coil porn" mentality that we have adopted. this is about quiting the stinkys not how cool am i because of what mod i have or how i build my coils.
    i propose it is you with the agendas of indoctrination and spewing propaganda and using a peer pressure tactic to get people thinking as you do.
     
  18. BigEgo

    BigEgo Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2013
    Alabama
    No one can say Kanthal is any safer than SS or Ti or nickel. Kanthal has Iron, chromium and aluminum in it. We do know that titanium itself is inert in the human body (unlike nickel or chromium), so there's that.

    I get your point about "needing testing," but let's not act like Kanthal is somehow "tested" because it was not created for our application anymore than SS or Ti or whatever other wire was.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  19. dleister1981

    dleister1981 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 16, 2015
    Michigan USA
    i agree with you on TI, as oxides that can penetrate the cell wall wont be present in clean wire. there are MSDS sheets on Kanthal and at most they recommend ventilation when cutting/welding it. the test were done to kanthal, but are based on temps that are well beyond what we use it for, so in all truth you are correct.
    i really feel that we need some testing done in a manner in which we use this stuff, but outside of Dr. Farsalinos i dont know of anyone doing anything to really find the health benefits/concerns
     
  20. BigEgo

    BigEgo Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2013
    Alabama
    druckle has said before that there is very little to be concerned about in regard to titanium dioxide "leeching" into our vape. It could at very high temps, but we don't vape much above 500F. TiO2, to my understanding, has high adhesion to the surface and doesn't "fall off" easily.

    It seems to me that Ti is the safest of the known wires mainly because it contains, well, only titanium. SS contains 3 or 4 metals -- Iron, Chromium, Nickel and sometimes Molybdenum.
     
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