That is why US Vape industry is on the edge of destruction right now

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subversive

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I'm so glad I got away from cigarettes when I did. It's a damn shame that so many never will.

Came here after learning my PG/flavor supply shop was going out of business. So many small businesses steamrolled after being established for years. Rarely visit this site anymore.

I have decades of nic. I'm set. But this is a fight that was already lost.

One day, too late for millions, the real truth will come out and not be ignored, but I'll be a senior citizen by the time that happens.
 

DPLongo22

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I live in the state of Connecticut, where my hundreds of calls and letters are surely nothing more than comical entertainment. Two of the loudest opponents to vape are my two Senators, Chris Murphy and DICK Blumenthal.

I'll never stop, but I also don't consider myself stupid enough to believe I've done even the slightest bit of good. The Machine is strong in these states, and VERY strong in THIS miserable state.
 

Bliss Doubt

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I take it there’s not a lot of pharmaceutical ads during the nightly newscasts over there.
I don't think they allow pharma ads for consumers on TV in the UK or in the EU. We've had them in the US since 1997, which at first annoyed the hell out of doctors, having patients asking them for the latest products "as seen on TV".

The UK has actually bothered to research vaping as a smoking cessation method. They continue that, and some hospitals have opened vape shops for patients and their visitors who can't smoke in hospital. Our hospitals have McDonalds in them instead.

There was a 2020 update, and a 2021:

Vaping in England: 2021 evidence update summary
 

Bliss Doubt

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That's a shame to witness what's happening in the US. Especially when most of you guys aren't even fighting back for your rights to vape. :closedeyes:

It just isn't true that we aren't fighting for our rights. We have CASAA. When it is the various states and even cities and counties imposing bans and limitations, there is no single target where we can march in the millions, chanting and holding up signs. In this forum and the other one, we keep each other aware of petitions to be signed, letters to be written, emails to be sent. I keep my email lists of family and friends included, to help me fight, to sign petitions for me even if they never smoked or vaped.

I vape in public when I can get away with it, because it is an opportunity to educate every single person who comments or asks about it, and people do ask and comment almost every time, because of a vaguely remembered desire to know and to practice critical thinking. It's a routine: PG is used in asthma inhalers and other inhaled lung medications, VG has many internal medical applications, such as ear drops, eye drops and suppositories, both PG and VG have many applications in bath/body products, sprayed air fresheners, and in food. I concede to them that the flavors are the unknown danger, for which reason I vape unflavored when I'm around others. I explain that pure, pharmaceutical grade liquid nicotine, without burning plant matter and dangerous additives, is a mild stimulant like caffeine, and that the pure grade nic has had positive applications in the cognitive diseases of old age and in IBS. I explain to them how my chronic bronchitis cleared almost immediately by replacing cigarettes with vaping. I would say that most of the people who have bothered to engage in conversation about it, have walked away with better understanding.

When it comes to the "kiddies can get it!" danger meme, I remind people that the sale of vape products to minors is as illegal as alcohol, but that kiddies manage to get bubblegum flavored vodka, speeding tickets, shag their steady girlfriends until they have an 18 year child support onus, get scraped knees and head wounds from playing sports, run down their health with fast food, that we can't keep a clean, safe, sanitary world for the kiddies and still have our own sanity.

We can get converts and allies, but not by telling people to .... off, and not by making pronouncements on each other for our failure to win. We are always winning until we lose, and until that time, I lean on this pronouncement from modern physics: when you look at a star, it changes just by being observed by you. I stay aware, because my awareness and understanding can change things. After that, I do all I can, as do most of the others posting here.

I wish leafblowers would be as prominent in the minds of the ANTZ and nannies as vaping is, when it comes to having a clean, safe world for the kiddies.
 

DPLongo22

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Blumenthal a man of integrity and Vietnam war hero.

Honor knows no boundaries with that one. :blink::facepalm:

;):laugh:

When it comes to the "kiddies can get it!" danger meme, I remind people that the sale of vape products to minors is as illegal as alcohol, but that kiddies manage to get bubblegum flavored vodka, speeding tickets, shag their steady girlfriends until they have an 18 year child support onus, get scraped knees and head wounds from playing sports, run down their health with fast food, that we can't keep a clean, safe, sanitary world for the kiddies and still have our own sanity.

I've always believed that we'd all be much better off if legislators followed one simple and undeniable rule, PRIOR to drafting any piece of legislation. That being that laws are punitive, NOT preventative, measures.

Apparently the simplest concepts are often the ones most difficult to grasp and follow.

Orange jumpsuits for the lot of 'em. Better yet, term limits.

"Yes, Vanna. I'd like to buy an Article V, please."
 

GeekyGeezer

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It was mentioned way back in the thread, but it's a topic I'm embarrassed to admit I was totally uninformed about.

While talking to my cardiologist - who would rather I not vape (nicotine/blood pressure) but understands why I do - I commented something about "your buddies at the American Heart Association". He looked surprised and told me they weren't his buddies, that he wasn't a member, and didn't know a single cardiologist who was.

The Heart Association, Lung Association and the like are not medical associations containing doctors, researchers, and experts. They are comprised of fundraisers and executives who are paid to promote a particular view. That pay comes from donations and grants. How do you keep the money coming in? By selfserving plotlines regarding the latest crisis and "people are dying". I think from the polls and comments from people I know, most people think they are some sort of unbiased group of doctors and experts.

They absolutely are not. They are bought and paid for so they can keep their high paying jobs.
 

Skeebo

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I don't think they allow pharma ads for consumers on TV in the UK or in the EU.

I believe there are only two countries that allow pharma ads, United States and New Zealand. It's just another sad example of what's wrong with our healthcare system/cost here. (in America I mean)
 

zoiDman

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ShowMeTwice

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Better yet, term limits.

3650625.jpg
 

Territoo

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    It was mentioned way back in the thread, but it's a topic I'm embarrassed to admit I was totally uninformed about.

    While talking to my cardiologist - who would rather I not vape (nicotine/blood pressure) but understands why I do - I commented something about "your buddies at the American Heart Association". He looked surprised and told me they weren't his buddies, that he wasn't a member, and didn't know a single cardiologist who was.

    The Heart Association, Lung Association and the like are not medical associations containing doctors, researchers, and experts. They are comprised of fundraisers and executives who are paid to promote a particular view. That pay comes from donations and grants. How do you keep the money coming in? By selfserving plotlines regarding the latest crisis and "people are dying". I think from the polls and comments from people I know, most people think they are some sort of unbiased group of doctors and experts.

    They absolutely are not. They are bought and paid for so they can keep their high paying jobs.

    Same reason most doctors aren't members of the American Medical Association. Most do not subscribe to what they preach, yet the media quotes them as if they were the voice of all, or at least the majority, of physicians.
     

    Vapeon4Life

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    Same reason most doctors aren't members of the American Medical Association. Most do not subscribe to what they preach, yet the media quotes them as if they were the voice of all, or at least the majority, of physicians.
    The American Medical Association {AMA} ???

    Not too long ago:

    AMA calls for total ban on all vaping and e-cigarette products
    AMA calls for total ban on all vaping and e-cigarette products

    BUT the AMA has a rather seedy past when it comes to tobacco - So let's go back some years:
    The AMA-Tobacco Industry Research Collaboration
    The Unfiltered Truth About Smoking and Health
    "Rather than follow the lead of other major health groups and support Surgeon General Dr. Luther Terry’s call for action on the smoking and health problem, the AMA instead entered into a $10 million contract with six tobacco companies to conduct research on the effects of nicotine and other aspects of smoking. Criticized by many members, the AMA leadership defended its relationship with the tobacco industry and claimed that the funds would be used to support “independent research” that was needed for the “identification and removal of the harmful components in tobacco.”
    The AMA-Tobacco Industry Research Collaboration – The Center for the Study of Tobacco and Society

    Can you believe it? - Spent money to find “identification and removal of the harmful components in tobacco.”
    And we have it in Vaping - Why isn't the AMA a supporter of vaping as a harm reduction product ???

    Maybe if we had one of those anti billionaires on our side to make a big enough donation they might see the light !!! Money talks.
     

    Territoo

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    The American Medical Association {AMA} ???

    Not too long ago:

    AMA calls for total ban on all vaping and e-cigarette products
    AMA calls for total ban on all vaping and e-cigarette products

    BUT the AMA has a rather seedy past when it comes to tobacco - So let's go back some years:
    The AMA-Tobacco Industry Research Collaboration
    The Unfiltered Truth About Smoking and Health
    "Rather than follow the lead of other major health groups and support Surgeon General Dr. Luther Terry’s call for action on the smoking and health problem, the AMA instead entered into a $10 million contract with six tobacco companies to conduct research on the effects of nicotine and other aspects of smoking. Criticized by many members, the AMA leadership defended its relationship with the tobacco industry and claimed that the funds would be used to support “independent research” that was needed for the “identification and removal of the harmful components in tobacco.”
    The AMA-Tobacco Industry Research Collaboration – The Center for the Study of Tobacco and Society

    Can you believe it? - Spent money to find “identification and removal of the harmful components in tobacco.”
    And we have it in Vaping - Why isn't the AMA a supporter of vaping as a harm reduction product ???

    Maybe if we had one of those anti billionaires on our side to make a big enough donation they might see the light !!! Money talks.

    I'm with you, bro. I never was a member of the AMA.
     

    CMD-Ky

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    Tobacco has done a lot to elevate the income of some physicians.

    The American Medical Association {AMA} ???

    Not too long ago:

    AMA calls for total ban on all vaping and e-cigarette products
    AMA calls for total ban on all vaping and e-cigarette products

    BUT the AMA has a rather seedy past when it comes to tobacco - So let's go back some years:
    The AMA-Tobacco Industry Research Collaboration
    The Unfiltered Truth About Smoking and Health
    "Rather than follow the lead of other major health groups and support Surgeon General Dr. Luther Terry’s call for action on the smoking and health problem, the AMA instead entered into a $10 million contract with six tobacco companies to conduct research on the effects of nicotine and other aspects of smoking. Criticized by many members, the AMA leadership defended its relationship with the tobacco industry and claimed that the funds would be used to support “independent research” that was needed for the “identification and removal of the harmful components in tobacco.”
    The AMA-Tobacco Industry Research Collaboration – The Center for the Study of Tobacco and Society

    Can you believe it? - Spent money to find “identification and removal of the harmful components in tobacco.”
    And we have it in Vaping - Why isn't the AMA a supporter of vaping as a harm reduction product ???

    Maybe if we had one of those anti billionaires on our side to make a big enough donation they might see the light !!! Money talks.
     
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    KurtVD

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    That piqued my interest, so I looked up Ezekiel Emanuel, here’s a relevant bit from his Wiki page:

    The controversy surrounding Emanuel is due to claims by Betsy McCaughey and Sarah Palin accusing Emanuel of supporting euthanasia. Emanuel has opposed euthanasia.[25]These claims have been used by Republicans opposing health care reform.

    "Unintended" consequence? We (in the land of the formerly free and home of the once brave) have a "bioethicist", Ezekiel Emanuel, who is of the belief that medical treatment should end at age 75 when people are no longer contributing a value to society. Perhaps smokers are not a value to society, consequently...
     

    CMD-Ky

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    That piqued my interest, so I looked up Ezekiel Emanuel, here’s a relevant bit from his Wiki page:

    The controversy surrounding Emanuel is due to claims by Betsy McCaughey and Sarah Palin accusing Emanuel of supporting euthanasia. Emanuel has opposed euthanasia.[25]These claims have been used by Republicans opposing health care reform.

    Broaden your horizons, Zeke's comments can be found quoted, not interpreted but quoted, in many places. Find his interviews and speeches. What I said was and is correct. [And had absolutely nothing to do with euthanasia.]
     
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    KurtVD

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    As I have stated before, I was merely interested in what it was all about, i. e. I had never heard the name before. So I googled again, this time with the keyword ‘Controversy’, which led me to an article written by Emanuel himself. Even though it’s really long, I’ve read it in its entirety, and there’s nothing in there that I would deem controversial. Also he does not advocate that ‘people’ shouldn’t receive treatment after 75, but he has decided that he himself doesn’t want any medical treatment after 75. That’s a big difference. Now unless I see something where he actually advocates this position (people over 75 shouldn’t get treatment), I think the Wikipedia entry is more or less accurate.

    Edit: I will admit that there’s lots of stuff in this article that lends itself to selective quotes, which, taken out of context, would seem horrible.


    Why I Hope to Die at 75

    Broaden your horizons, Zeke's comments can be found quoted, not interpreted but quoted, in many places. Find his interviews and speeches. What I said was and is correct. [And had absolutely nothing to do with euthanasia.]
     
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