The Clone Wars - Tearing the Vaping Community Apart

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WeirdWillie

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You do know there us a difference between a company having their items manufactured or assembled in PRC and their design, logo and name used on replicas without their permission or payment, correct?

Only the cartos I use are made in China...
Yes I do know the difference do you ?
Can you prove that their design, logo and names are being used without their consent or payment ?
Think about it the same people contracted to make the originals in most cases are making the clones.
Who is to say that the clones are just units that had some small imperfections seconds if you will that did not make the OEM cut. or sales on the originals have declined or didn't meet projected sales, therefor the original designer and or contractual clause allows the contracted manufacturer to sale said units for a discounted price, and give kickbacks to the original designer for a specified time.
This very scenario is common place in manufacturing, especially when you are dealing with companies in countries that do not recognize or care about copyrights or patents,just quick bucks.

What original designer would ever come out and say X clone selling for 1/3 is identical to the original and I'm still making money off of it, but I want you to keep buying the original because I make even more off of it.

It only makes since to play both arenas for maximum profit, there are always going to be people who buy originals but there will also be those, because of human nature to get out as cheep as possible that will never pay premium prices, so why not make money on those too, by smoke and mirror, slight of hand clone marketing.
 

Bassnorma

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Man, remember when we REALLY cared DEEPLY about an issue?! Especially one about metal tubes!!!

Dude. I made one girlfriend literally use tweezers to turn my comic book pages.

"I don't want yo' finger oils taintin' tha page, what?!"

ETA: She broke up with me.

HAHAHA...obsess much Rocket? hehehehe ;)
 

stevegmu

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Yes I do know the difference do you ?
Can you prove that their design, logo and names are being used without their consent or payment ?
Think about it the same people contracted to make the originals in most cases are making the clones.
Who is to say that the clones are just units that had some small imperfections seconds if you will that did not make the OEM cut. or sales on the originals have declined or didn't meet projected sales, therefor the original designer and or contractual clause allows the contracted manufacturer to sale said units for a discounted price, and give kickbacks to the original designer for a specified time.
This very scenario is common place in manufacturing, especially when you are dealing with companies in countries that do not recognize or care about copyrights or patents,just quick bucks.


What original designer would ever come out and say X clone selling for 1/3 is identical to the original and I'm still making money off of it, but I want you to keep buying the original because I make even more off of it.


It only makes since to play both arenas for maximum profit, there are always going to be people who buy originals but there will also be those, because of human nature to get out as cheep as possible that will never pay premium prices, so why not make money on those too, by smoke and mirror, slight of hand clone marketing.




One can't prove something which doesn't happen...

I do know Kayfuns are wildly popular in the replica/counterfeit world. Real ones are made in Germany. Svoemestro has said their design was stolen, hence the Russian, and now many other fakes.

Why would a Chinese company pay for a design or have a partnership with an original mod maker? They just steal the design, sell them as a 'clone' and keep all the money. The conspiracy theories are a joke...

I work in manufacturing and know a bit about how the manufacturing world works. Do you? It is not at all about kickbacks and secret agreements...

Your fakes use mystery metals, which is not the same quality as American or German steel...
 

mountaingal

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Clones? Authentics? None of this will really matter when we have to buy vuse cartridges:mad:and squeeze out the nic liquid to go in our atomizers or drip tips. I research what will work for me. During the day I need a small setup that can fit in my pocket ( 450mah ego-style (Clone?) battery and a protank mini). At night, a box battery and a RTA for the vaper. All I really care about is getting my nic.:glare:
 

WeirdWillie

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One can't prove something which doesn't happen...

I do know Kayfuns are wildly popular in the replica/counterfeit world. Real ones are made in Germany. Svoemestro has said their design was stolen, hence the Russian, and now many other fakes.

Why would a Chinese company pay for a design or have a partnership with an original mod maker? They just steal the design, sell them as a 'clone' and keep all the money. The conspiracy theories are a joke...

I work in manufacturing and know a bit about how the manufacturing world works. Do you? It is not at all about kickbacks and secret agreements...

Your fakes use mystery metals, which is not the same quality as American or German steel...

Again you have no proof just because someone said, does not proof make, people can say anything, but it doesn't mean it's true, and let me make it perfectly clear I'm not saying anyone is lying in fact I want to believe Svoemestro, but why hasn't he addressed the shortcomings of the authentic himself instead of letting the cloners do it ?
I personally own 4 Svoemestro kayfun 3.1, but I also have an un-badged EHpro kayfun 3.1 that is just as good for a fraction of the price.
The value of anything is not what the seller wants, but what the buyer is willing to pay, and human nature will always prevail.
Personally I buy authentic when I can, and if I feel the cost is of value to me, if not I will buy the best clone in the price range I feel is closest to the value I place on it.

If you place value on only authentic and willing to pay the premium for it more power to you live long and prosper.
But how dare you look down you're nose at people that that feel differently, and do not place as high value on authenticity, but looking for the best vape per buck value.

I saw somewhere someone was selling a used authentic kayfun lite + v2 for like $80 or something not trying to take anything away from the guy or the the atty but I also own an authentic Svoemestro kayfun lite + v2 I bought used BTW for $50, but knowing what I know now about the tight drawing, whistling SOB I wouldn't pay more than $20 thus the reason I stuck with the 3.1s people complain because they are taller because of the catch well, but by far are the best authentic variant to date.
And yes people like Ehpro are producing modified plus v2's superior to the authentic for 1/4 the price of the authentic.
Eleaf took the kayfun design to the next level with the Lemo, now there is a authentic based on an authentic yet worth twice what they cost, that doesn't happen very often.

Now take the Squape Reloaded, no supplier in the US has an authentic at all in stock, yet I got my hands on 1:1 clone with an S & W deck and 2 AFC rings for $50
Would I pay $150-$170 for the authentic NO its a decent RTA about par with a kayfun 3.1 but nowhere near worth the outrageous authentic price vapes nowhere near as good as the Lemo, for the price I'd personally buy 4 more Lemo's IMO $40-50 is all the Squape Reloaded is worth to me.

Again take the big dripper innovative design great product, but try and get your hands on an authentic, even at that for me it's not $130 great, got one off ebay less than $50 a 1:1 clone with correct deck which is about what it is worth to me.

Again value is what someone is willing to pay, not what a seller wants.
 

WeirdWillie

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I don't have any problems with my Kayfun, but I believe a new version is imminent...

When something I want is not in stock, I wait or buy something else, rather than buy a counterfeit. If I want something I can not afford at the time, I buy something less expensive or save for it...

And I fully respect that, its your prerogative, but nobody has the right to belittle, or berate someone else that feels differently, it's their prerogative and demands the same respect.
If you approve or disapprove with someones decision or purchase it is irrelevant unless your opinion is asked for, even at that it is never okay to force your belief or opinion on someone else.
 

stevegmu

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And I fully respect that, its your prerogative, but nobody has the right to belittle, or berate someone else that feels differently, it's their prerogative and demands the same respect.
If you approve or disapprove with someones decision or purchase it is irrelevant unless your opinion is asked for, even at that it is never okay to force your belief or opinion on someone else.

Where did I belittle anyone? Seems so many cloners are so defensive about their choice...
 

socalfisher

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Mar 25, 2011
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How do you even know you have an authentic anymore? You cant tell. Just cause its listed on a site claiming authentic or in a shop, how would you know? You wouldnt. There is no way to really tell if you have an authentic.

Take itaste as an example, they have a authentication form on the website to verify the authenticity of your device. A china made device with a way of tracking your actual device to be legit or cloned.
 

Rocketpunk

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Aug 14, 2012
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Arguing about opinions, points of view, et al., is circular. Nobody is "proving" anything. These things go round and round forever. Do ya'll enjoy chasing your tails? Because that's what happens when people argue over points of view. Nobody is accomplishing anything here. And in fact, what are you attempting to accomplish? Changing another person's mind, or stomping them with superior arguments, just to be right?

There is no right or wrong here. Is this the battle you've picked and chosen? What is the desired outcome of this debate?

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk
 
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