The Darwin From Evolv!!!

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mwa102464

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Arch,
I will not attempt to correct anything Credo said because everything in that post is correct. However, I can add to it a little bit.

Many will argue that watts are watts and from the electrical perspective - they are correct. However, it is clear that many have preferences and some of them (me included) are adamant about their preferences. I have seen many who swear by LR and will not vape anything else. Personally, I do not like anything LR and have not liked LR gear since about 2 months into my vaping experiences.

EVERYTHING vaping is completely subjective. In any combination of device(s), batteries, attys/cartos, juices and/or regulation (of any type) - if you change any component the vape experience will change at least to some degree. 510 LR is different from 901 LR as is 306 LR, 801 style LR etc. The same goes for standard resistance and higher resistances. Change from IMR batts to non IMR batts when using LR gear and you will see differences in the vape as well. Obviously, changing juices will change everything as will if you merely change the VG/PG ratios in the very same juice.

I like to think of the vape experience more like cooking. If you cook the very same food, with the very same seasonings all at the very same temperature and just change the cooking surfaces - you will see differences in the food taste, texture, etc. For example - if you were to do this side-by-side comparison using an aluminum pan, a cast iron pan, and a grill - all same food and same temps - you will see the final cooked food will be different from each cooking surface. With vaping, we are sort of cooking the juices and the various ingredients in those juices respond differently to different heat levels (in vaping watts are expressed as heat) and so - to me - switching the same Ωs but different model attys is like the cooking analogy using the different pans/cooking surfaces. To take this analogy one step further, as Credo has indicated, higher resistances will give you more range to the achievable watts scale and therefore more access to a wider range of temperatures (vaping watts). LR gear is designed to simulate/imitate higher voltage vaping using lower volts so by its very design it limits you to the upper range of vapable watts.

Some people may even find they like one style atty/carto in LR, another model in standard resistance and yet another in higher Ωs. Some may find they prefer certain juices in certain attys/cartos in one of the various Ωs ratings and yet others in something completely different. It is all completely subjective and as I have posted in the past, there really is no "better/best" there is only YOUR "better/best". So you sort of have to experiment and see what YOU like.

For the first year+ I vaped pretty much only tobacco and tobacco/menthol juices. I tried pretty much every atty and carto on the market and many different devices (including several variable voltage devices). After many comparisons, I concluded that I (for my tastes) did not enjoy tobacco/tobacco-menthol juices in cartos and that I preferred one atty model/version/Ωs over all others. Then I switched to fruit and sweeter juices and found I prefer those in cartos (again with one model and Ωs level preferred above all others).

So, experiment and have fun - you will find what YOU like better/best and that is all that matters.
:toast: and Happy :vapor:

There is one caveat to this though Nebs = you wrap a coil with 32AWG Kanthal @ 2.6ohms, then you wrap a coil with 36AWG Kanthal @ 2.6ohm, both coils have the same ohms, which one will vape better ? Just messing with ya, but there is a difference in the vape, and Watts are not now the same Watts to make the same vape.
 

hifistud

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There is one caveat to this though Nebs = you wrap a coil with 32AWG Kanthal @ 2.6ohms, then you wrap a coil with 36AWG Kanthal @ 2.6ohm, both coils have the same ohms, which one will vape better ? Just messing with ya, but there is a difference in the vape, and Watts are not now the same Watts to make the same vape.

That's the differentiating factor - the topography of the coil. Are more turns better than fewer for the same wattage, or is the reverse true? That's not a factor that can be evaluated objectively - but it's an area of research I want to look at further, to determine the characteristics of various topologies of coils. It's geek's paradise!!
 

MediocreTrombonist

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That's the differentiating factor - the topography of the coil. Are more turns better than fewer for the same wattage, or is the reverse true? That's not a factor that can be evaluated objectively - but it's an area of research I want to look at further, to determine the characteristics of various topologies of coils. It's geek's paradise!!

Please let us know the results when you do look further, as I've heard many people voicing their take on the issue. And with consistent wattage devices like Darwin it is a very pertinent topic.
 

cuseguy

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That's the differentiating factor - the topography of the coil. Are more turns better than fewer for the same wattage, or is the reverse true? That's not a factor that can be evaluated objectively - but it's an area of research I want to look at further, to determine the characteristics of various topologies of coils. It's geek's paradise!!

You guys make my head hurt!
But in the best possible way of course:)

Sent from Samsung Galaxy Nexus via Tapatalk
 

rustybikes

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That's the differentiating factor - the topography of the coil. Are more turns better than fewer for the same wattage, or is the reverse true? That's not a factor that can be evaluated objectively - but it's an area of research I want to look at further, to determine the characteristics of various topologies of coils. It's geek's paradise!!

At the risk of making CG's head continue to hurt, another variable has occurred to me.

I got a REO Mini from the classies a couple weeks ago, and liked it so much that I went ahead and got a Grand. When I got the Mini, I stocked up on supplies a little, specifically getting enough atties to use and have spares. FWIW, I got SmokTech 510LRs at 1.7Ω. When the Grand got here, I grabbed one of the atties in my stash and started happily vaping. I did notice that my Grand seemed to be running a little cooler than my Mini, which got me thinking - what's different? Same voltage (confirmed with a multimeter), same atty, same juice, etc. Because this is a Darwin thread.. I double-checked both atties with my Darwin and confirmed that they are both holding at 1.7Ω. To complete my data-points, I swapped the atties between my Mini and Grand, and the warmth followed the atty.

Which brings me to my point.. The atty from my Mini is about 2 weeks older (daily-driver, so it's getting used), and as it's aged (so far), the draw has gotten ever-so-slightly heavier. The slightly lower airflow allows the vapour to warm just a little bit more than on the new atty. So, my theory is that while watts are, indeed, watts, there are way too many other variables involved to precisely predict how the heat is percieved on a particular atty.

Thoughts?
 

Credo

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At the risk of making CG's head continue to hurt, another variable has occurred to me.

I got a REO Mini from the classies a couple weeks ago, and liked it so much that I went ahead and got a Grand. When I got the Mini, I stocked up on supplies a little, specifically getting enough atties to use and have spares. FWIW, I got SmokTech 510LRs at 1.7Ω. When the Grand got here, I grabbed one of the atties in my stash and started happily vaping. I did notice that my Grand seemed to be running a little cooler than my Mini, which got me thinking - what's different? Same voltage (confirmed with a multimeter), same atty, same juice, etc. Because this is a Darwin thread.. I double-checked both atties with my Darwin and confirmed that they are both holding at 1.7Ω. To complete my data-points, I swapped the atties between my Mini and Grand, and the warmth followed the atty.

Which brings me to my point.. The atty from my Mini is about 2 weeks older (daily-driver, so it's getting used), and as it's aged (so far), the draw has gotten ever-so-slightly heavier. The slightly lower airflow allows the vapour to warm just a little bit more than on the new atty. So, my theory is that while watts are, indeed, watts, there are way too many other variables involved to precisely predict how the heat is percieved on a particular atty.

Thoughts?

No doubt about it. I've yet to ever have two atties or cartos (even like brands/models) that vaped exactly the same, and with age, they changed as well (some for the better, some for the worse).

Darwin has prolonged the life of a bunch of stuff I'd have tossed before though. For instance, I still have a cheap SmokTech Atty that started out at 2 Ohms (I got it for a known atty killer liquid that I only vape a few minutes a week anyway). When I first push the button this thing meters at over 4 Ohms! As it heats, it drops to 2 Ohms (takes about a second for this to happen). The Darwin keeps it flat though! I can watch it start at over 6v and drop to something more like 4.2 as the atty smooths out. With any other PV than the Darwin, this atty would have been trashed useless months ago! No other PV that I know of can do this ;)
 

NebulaBrot

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At the risk of making CG's head continue to hurt, another variable has occurred to me.

I got a REO Mini from the classies a couple weeks ago, and liked it so much that I went ahead and got a Grand. When I got the Mini, I stocked up on supplies a little, specifically getting enough atties to use and have spares. FWIW, I got SmokTech 510LRs at 1.7Ω. When the Grand got here, I grabbed one of the atties in my stash and started happily vaping. I did notice that my Grand seemed to be running a little cooler than my Mini, which got me thinking - what's different? Same voltage (confirmed with a multimeter), same atty, same juice, etc. Because this is a Darwin thread.. I double-checked both atties with my Darwin and confirmed that they are both holding at 1.7Ω. To complete my data-points, I swapped the atties between my Mini and Grand, and the warmth followed the atty.

Which brings me to my point.. The atty from my Mini is about 2 weeks older (daily-driver, so it's getting used), and as it's aged (so far), the draw has gotten ever-so-slightly heavier. The slightly lower airflow allows the vapour to warm just a little bit more than on the new atty. So, my theory is that while watts are, indeed, watts, there are way too many other variables involved to precisely predict how the heat is percieved on a particular atty.

Thoughts?
My first thought, as I started reading, was to wonder what types of batts you are using in the two reos. LR gear demands more amps. For example (according to Ohms Law Calculator): 1.7Ω on 3.7 demands 2.1 amps and produces 8 watts while 1.7Ω on 4.2 (fully charged) demands 2.4 amps (produces 10.3 watts). For comparison, 3Ω on 5 volts demands only 1.6 amps and produces 8.3 watts. so I wondered if you were using IMR batts as most others may not be able to push 2.4 amps demanded under the fully charged scenario. if you are using different batts in the two different devices (even with the same Ω), if one cannot push the needed amps you would experience voltage drop-off to the level to satisfy Ohms Law at the level of the available amps.

However, when you stated the heat followed the atty (older one), I speculate that the older atty may have some build-up and the airflow may be slightly more restricted as a result. Less airflow (even tho same atty) could result in a warmer vape.

Obviously none of this is definitive - merely speculation. But the theory is sound. An interesting test for you might be to put both attys on Darwin and leave the watts setting fixed and see what happens. Another variable could possibly be if you are using two different juices or the same juice. Different juices could possibly contribute (if you are using different juices and the juice followed the atty) it is possible this could be another factor. But if the only variable is the older vs newer atty - most likely airflow may be your issue.
 

rustybikes

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Yes - same batteries. I usually run IMRs in the Mini, but I don't (yet) have any for the Grand. What I do have are the TrustFire protected batts for each rig, so I used them for this test. They seem to be fine pushing 2.4amps as described. And yes, the same juice is loaded up in each REO - Dekang RY4, FWIW. My money's definitely on airflow being the variable here.

I will have to try what you described with the Darwin. With the variable power behaviour that it excels at, it would eliminate another possible variable. Sure, I measured the batts in the REOs before I started (4.20v for the record), but it's not hard to imagine one discharging ever-so-slightly faster than the other.

Thanks for the sanity-check on all this. I've seen several threads on this topic, with lots of discussions/arguments - watts is watts, LR vs. HR, coil windings, coil wire gauge, PG/VG combinations, ambient temperature, and so on. But I don't recall seeing much talk about the atomiser platform (carto vs. atty) itself, nor like-device comparisons like I did. I want to say I have seen mention of things like Cisco vs. Boge vs. Joye, and those differences would be enough to explain the perceived difference in heat. I suspect that even different manufacturing lots from the same manufacturer would have subtle differences.

Bottom line - I'd have been perfectly content to leave the topic in the "personal preferences" bin, but then it came up here and got me thinking about it again. Still, my go-to advice on the subject remains "Tweak the voltage until it feels/tastes perfect to YOU. No one else matters." I do find it mildly annoying (and interesting) that we lack the language to accurately/usefully describe how fast my draw is, or what the temperature of the vapour is. It really is all completely subjective.
 

hifistud

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Please let us know the results when you do look further, as I've heard many people voicing their take on the issue. And with consistent wattage devices like Darwin it is a very pertinent topic.

The advent of GG's Odysseus has the potential for making that particular bit of research a tad easier to undertake. Haven't got mine yet - I'm holding out for the full bifta, but yes, it will be sitting atop either a Darwin or something with a Kick in it, and then the fun shall begin...
 

Liv2Ski

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Sanctuary = Darwins loaded, Cold Duvel (Belgian Ale), some Neil Young, Dead, Allman Bros at volume 60 pounding the Bose speakers and melting one hell of a week away. Wife and kids are out, cellphone powerd off and nobody can get me woooooohooooooo. Only thing missing is a hot pole dancer down here in the cave. Happy vapes all and welcome to the weekend!
 

hifistud

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At the risk of making CG's head continue to hurt, another variable has occurred to me.

I got a REO Mini from the classies a couple weeks ago, and liked it so much that I went ahead and got a Grand. When I got the Mini, I stocked up on supplies a little, specifically getting enough atties to use and have spares. FWIW, I got SmokTech 510LRs at 1.7Ω. When the Grand got here, I grabbed one of the atties in my stash and started happily vaping. I did notice that my Grand seemed to be running a little cooler than my Mini, which got me thinking - what's different? Same voltage (confirmed with a multimeter), same atty, same juice, etc. Because this is a Darwin thread.. I double-checked both atties with my Darwin and confirmed that they are both holding at 1.7Ω. To complete my data-points, I swapped the atties between my Mini and Grand, and the warmth followed the atty.

Which brings me to my point.. The atty from my Mini is about 2 weeks older (daily-driver, so it's getting used), and as it's aged (so far), the draw has gotten ever-so-slightly heavier. The slightly lower airflow allows the vapour to warm just a little bit more than on the new atty. So, my theory is that while watts are, indeed, watts, there are way too many other variables involved to precisely predict how the heat is percieved on a particular atty.

Thoughts?

Indeed, airflow has to play a large part. At a given temperature constantly held, only a certain amount of liquid can possibly be vapourised fully. That will mix with the air being drawn over the coil assembly, and thus the density of the resultant aerosol will vary with airflow. It also follows that greater heat equates to the ability to create a denser aerosol at greater airflow, assuming an adequate supply of juice. My feeling is that this is an area of atomiser design that can happily take much more research than has heretofore been undertaken. Lord only knows what variations may spring from it all, though - there may be even more confusion that here already is!
 

ime5000

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It's been a while since I've been around here. Hectic Christmas and by the way. Happy New years darwinians! I have some stories to tell. Hut not the time. Just wanted to say hi. Didn't get to read all of rusty and begs posts. But yea I want an attys with lasers too. Right right?

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Kristian

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OK, I have been refreshing the Darwin page every day, at least once a day for the past 3 weeks waiting for them to be back in stock. Were they in stock and I missed it? Do they have a waiting list? When was the last time they had any available? Did they stop production? I sent a message through the contact link. I did not receive any return contact.
 

Killjoy1

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They're still being made, Kristian, don't worry about that ;-) It's just that the production capacity is limited so occasionally there are periods like this where they aren't available for a little while


@Rob, I too have, in one of my fanciful moods (aka bored and beered), pictured a laser-powered atty that fires in perfect time with the glorious 9th
 
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