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The Electronic Cigarette Trade Association (Ecta)

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Mindfield

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Oh, jeez. Don't tell me. Mr. NicFits?

EDIT: I am NOT referring to CapitalNicFit or NicFitNation here. I mean that other crazy anti-nic stalker idiot we've encountered before. Please do not E-mail either of these under the impression that they're the one with the fake ECTA page. It's not them.
 
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Switched

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Well that really siphons buffalo cajonas, now don't it :( Just as we were heading in the right direction.

Not sure if it was considered ect... but most important sites have bought and registered their names, in all variants to prevent this from happening e.g dot com, dot org, dot ca ect... and the misspelling of the acronym for re-directs etc... etc... a tad expensive in the beginning but worth its weight in gold down the road. Disregard this communiqué if already in place. :)
 

Mindfield

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i really think that you might want to rephrase that to describe our resident stalker... considering that we have a vendor who sells under NicFitNation.

Er, yeah... I guess I should qualify that: I don't mean Shadi. I mean the other NicFits guy. The insane, stalkery, rabidly, gibberingly anti-nicotine one. :)
 

kanadiankat

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Unlike internet registries - the Federal government does not allow names to be registered with slight variants or anything that could lead to conflicts. ECTA is a legal and registered organization and we are looking into legal steps to stop and prevent this person from continuing.

If he would like to express his opinions online - that's up to him - under his own name and identity - not under ours.

Also - please be careful not to fill this thread with info on this person - as ECTA will have announcements and important information to communicate in the coming weeks.
 

Switched

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Unlike internet registries - the Federal government does not allow names to be registered with slight variants or anything that could lead to conflicts. ECTA is a legal and registered organization and we are looking into legal steps to stop and prevent this person from continuing.

If he would like to express his opinions online - that's up to him - under his own name and identity - not under ours.

Also - please be careful not to fill this thread with info on this person - as ECTA will have announcements and important information to communicate in the coming weeks.
That is good to hear Kat. ECTA is ours now how many domains has it be registered at? I do not need nor want and answer.

AFAIC please be quiet until you folks can provide us with answers ;)

PS: If you think I have pointed questions or I am tough, wait until you deal with the hill.

BTW I don't go googoo gahgah, I react to substance.
 

kanadiankat

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So? What's going on? Any news on this subject from the vendors out there?

Announcements will be made soon in this thread. At the moment all the participants are busy with the holiday rush - so progress is expected to be a bit slower during December.

Several actions have already been initiated and will be announced as soon as we are able to do so.
 

Switched

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Announcements will be made soon in this thread. At the moment all the participants are busy with the holiday rush - so progress is expected to be a bit slower during December.

Several actions have already been initiated and will be announced as soon as we are able to do so.
Absolutely true and supported. OTOH the government never rests!
 

woooozzaa

Senior Member
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Jun 10, 2009
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I know this might not be my place to comment as I am completely oblivious to political activities and to Health Canada's real stand on ecig related matters, but I did feel like sharing my feelings on the subject. Moderators please feel free to edit/delete this post if it offends or derails the thread in any way.

That being said, I believe that if HC did not take the decisions it did, ecigs and eliquids would most likely have been completely banned altogether by now. I, in contrary to what I feel most people do towards HC, am grateful that our hardware was left accessible while nic liquid is hard to access. I am not foolish as to think the party as not enough leverage to outlaw these completely, and believe they did so for our interest. These units have great potential and I find it hard to believe they could deny it. They do seem to hammer down any (nic) seller that starts to get too recognized in effect forcing only the educated few to cling to the wagon, thinning the herd. Given the same choice as to introduce ecigs in my family is in no way comparable to dealing with an entire country, but I did feel very cautious and went to great length explaining the health and safety issues to the best of my abilities before even considering supplying anyone I know with hardware. And may I add, still don't have a complete peace of mind at times. The thought of having eliquid freely available to the general public is completely unacceptable IMO. Although I support vaping, the fact is eliquids, even in our daily quantity and concentration is a potential hazard our government will not accept us handling, period. One doesn't need much imagination to see the consequences this could have on an uneducated mass, child proof caps or not. As far as hardware being classed as it is, I humbly accept that I am too weak to overcome my addiction and do view my device as a sort of unapproved medical accessory to control said addiction. So again in all my ignorance I will back HC on this one too and again thank them for letting me have a shot at it for now.

My idea or take on the subject might sound ridiculous and far fetched, but as anyone ever approached HC with a permit/card holding proposition? Where one would have to writtenly or verbally pass an approved test to gain permission at consuming/handling nicotine in this form. It is the way we are allowed to handle anything else that is potentially dangerous in this country be it a hunting gun or vehicle. A higher class permit and education towards the matter could grant the holder access to an increasing diversity of supplies, that could be audited and monitored by the approver. Which in turn could be classified based on the risk/danger level to the individual's health and well-being, as well as others, based on the knowledge they've acquired on said subject. A simple example is separating regular protected electronics from battery mods, and high concentrated nicotine forms and DIY supplies to an even higher class, again "requiring" a greater understanding and awareness of the dangers implicated in using said materials and substances.

I do understand the frustration behind our current situation in Canada, and I do strongly agree that it is our right to consume nicotine by free will, but fighting or trying to force our way to a "right" seems ridiculous to me. However we could gain "privilege" to do so legally demonstrating our understanding and responsibilities as individual vapers in an approved test as mentioned. Now how much would a permit/card like this have to be worth to cover the administrative cost beats me, but I would most likely pay for a such privilege.

Again, pardon my intrusion into the delicate matter. This whole post might not make much sense, I am French and poorly educated, but I did feel an urge to share.
 
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Switched

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I understand and support your position in some way, as an intelligent and thoughtful post. OTOH, I have difficulty with pay as you go routine all to prevalent in today's TAX infrastructure. Let me explain,

I have spent 32.5 years in the service, defending this great nation, handled and shot a plethora of weapons, yet, I am not grandfathered in and must take a weapons handling course should I wish to acquire an FAC, which I allowed mine to expire years ago (no need to have one), or have to take a "boating safety course" for my 12 foot fishing boat equipped with a 4HP (4 stroke (environmentally conscious), or have to pay a special vehicle tax because I drive a pick up. <---- I already pay more at the pumps towards road maintenance. Although this seems logical to the avg small car driver, the mis-appropriation of funds levied at the pumps should be their focus not the fact that I drive a pick up (for good reasons).

An another example. ATVANS (atv association Nova Scotia) helped create and build a trail system in NS, which is now for the sole purpose of pedestrians. Not happy campers here, whilst in Que their trail system for ATVs and snowmobiles is supported by the province with the government working hand in hand with their citizens.

We have to be very careful which can of worms we open in order to gain approval. Just my opinion.
 

SloHand

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Sep 8, 2011
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Thoughtful post yes but you need to ask yourself, "where does it stop". I once mused that airline passengers should have to take (and pass) a course before being given access to fly on an aircraft. Ridiculous!

There are thousands of items that we all have access to everyday that could kill us. Some regulated and others not and yet we still hear of tragedies as a result. I've read on these boards of some small incidents with those that do DIY but none that I'm aware of resulting in hospitalization, or worse, death.

At present, you just need to be 19 years or older to purchase any of big tobacco's or big pharma's products, why should the vaping community be treated any differently? How are our items more dangerous than other nicotine products? Vapors are not the only ones that use rechargeable batteries?

All that being said, I'm in total agreement to regulations that are put in place at the source. Regulations for those that make the ejuices, regulations for those that sell our products and I would think that sellers would want these regulations (BoxElder?) to ensure they are providing the public with a safe product. Also, one seller on these boards has suggested that any liquids sold in concentrations higher than 36 mg should be banded, is this reasonable? I think so.

My :2c:
 

Cokeybill

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There are many DIYers that use higher than 36mg. The idea of stopping anyone from doing what they want with what they want is not a freedom expession. These DIYers are not newbs. They have been doing this to lower their costs to vape and get what they want to vape. My wife vapes 36mg although I don't(12mg) and she says it is still too weak. I have read posts of some that vape in the 40s. Some want a higher nic, some want to vape at a cheaper price. This isn't a resolution that will taken well by some. If you are comfortable mixxing at 100mg and have been experienced in doing it for a while, I see no problems. I do see a problem with a lack of education on doing so and doing so in a safe manner. The only problem that I see is getting regulated nic, at any level.
 

Pipeous

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gov't passes. I remember when I got my dangerous goods certificate when I was running freight. open book test with the answers highlighted. everyone passed. I was hauling hospital coolers, flammables, explosives, hell I did a run with 6200lbs of alcohol lol... (1 ton cube van to whistler... front wheels were lifting off the ground on bumps)

and 7/11 was pickier about delivery times of food than safeway was... odd that huh?
 

kanadiankat

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Oct 14, 2010
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www.electrovapors.com
That being said, I believe that if HC did not take the decisions it did, ecigs and eliquids would most likely have been completely banned altogether by now. I, in contrary to what I feel most people do towards HC, am grateful that our hardware was left accessible while nic liquid is hard to access. I am not foolish as to think the party as not enough leverage to outlaw these completely, and believe they did so for our interest.

First thank you for your thoughtful post. It is well written.

This has been discussed before. Unfortunately - HC and the FDA are not acting in your interests and the result has been something very difficult to work with.

Absolutely nothing stopped HC from regulating this industry from the beginning. Had they taken that step - we would see a handful of approved eliquid manufacturers making products for wholesale and a world of hurt and lost energy and issues and problems and potential problems would not have existed. Of course there are always regulatory issues but those could have been dealt with - and the industry would likely have looked similar to what it is now - just much more prevalent and organized.

It is the duty of HC to do this. They refuse to. There may be many reasons for this - we can all speculate - but chances are only a handful of HC heads are privy to this information (I have my own theories - and I don't wear a tin-foil hat).

Here are some of the issues:

1) Eliquid makers cannot get permission or approval right now because HC refuses to classify eliquid as eliquid. Instead they have classified it as a new, untested drug. With this classification - it is impossible for any eliquid to ever receive approval. (It would take chapters and pages and lawyers to explain why).

2) This all - in spite of legislation that HC sponsored saying otherwise. (That non-natural nicotine is no longer a schedule F drug). When sponsoring that legislation - HC claimed that it was for everyone's greater good. Apparently "everyone" has since been limited to a single pharmaceutical company's bottom line. It no longer includes you or me. Whether that pharma company is interested in making eliquid - remains to be seen - but it's unlikely - as they are the makers of a rival product (which Health Canada advertises on their page about ecigs).

3) Your hardware is not safe. HC intends to ban any hardware that is made for, advertised for or even could be used with nicotine. This is done by twisting the law. The law places electronics in the hands of provincial authorities. HC is claiming that ecigs are medical equipment.

As it stands right now - HC is only willing to permit ecigs that are sold as novelties - as things you use while using NRT's (nicotine replacement therapies) to quit smoking - or that you carry around as a toy.

The FDA tried this very same thing in the US. It was taken before the courts and the FDA had their backsides handed to them by the original case judge and the subsequent appellate judges.

The issues go deep. Deep into politics.

They have nothing to do with looking out for our health or welfare or product purity or protection from harm.

Health authorities around the world are charged with looking out for people's health. It is their duty and their jobs to ensure that products meet specifications, to set guidelines and to ensure that businesses are working within them. Instead we have a health authority refusing to do it's job in order to ensure that whole industries are shut out because they threaten a ruling monopoly.

Ecigs are not the only head on this chopping block either. Vitamins were right up there also a couple years ago and still remain in the threatened zone. Energy drinks (which suffer the same classification as ecigs) are about to go under the microscope as well.
 
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