The Elephant in the Room

[Tranquility Base]

There are plenty of regulations in many industries without enforcement cops at every factory or point of sale. The amount of enforcement is usually proportionate with the amount of industry compliance. Well, except for Wall Street, who can simply afford to buy the regulators.

 

[Robino1]

At the E-Cigarette Summit (live blogging happening right now http://vaping.com/ecigsummit2014/live-blog?_ga=1.115149063.1202178449.1400851829 ) There is talk about a Standardization instead of Regulation.

I agree with a Standard. I do not agree with Regulation.

The founder of ECF (SmokeyJoe aka Oliver Kershaw) is posting the live blogs.

 

[Tranquility Base]

We need to regulate our standards with some basic standard regulations here. Okay now I need a vape.

 

[stevegmu]

How would you want this regulation to be set up? Would there be an FDA official at every vape shop watching the eliquid be made? or would all juice have to come from a factory of mass produced eliguid so everything is sealed? Or would it just be the FDA watching and inventorying everything the vape shop bought?

I understand your concern but I dont see a feasible way for it to be enforced. If they just write a standard list of what can be used and in what proportions, what is going to stop people from making juice they way that they already do?

I am not trying to be snarky, I am curious what your plan would be

How is the food industry regulated? Personally I don't care about the basement brew shops of those who knowingly use suspect ingredients because they taste good and they can make money off of customers who don't know or care. I don't buy from them...

 

[TomGeorge]

How is the food industry regulated? Personally I don't care about the basement brew shops of those who knowingly use suspect ingredients because they taste good and they can make money off of customers who don't know or care. I don't buy from them...

That is exactly my point. how many stories have you heard about body parts and stuff found in fast food. Not to mention what they consider food at fast food places. How is writing laws going to stop the 2% of juice makers that are unethical? its not. so who does it help?

 

[Robino1]

That is exactly my point. how many stories have you heard about body parts and stuff found in fast food. Not to mention what they consider food at fast food places. How is writing laws going to stop the 2% of juice makers that are unethical? its not. so who does it help?

Ding, ding, ding! You get the prize~~

Regulation will NOT stop unethical people.

 

[Tranquility Base]

The Health Inspectors have been very busy in the Restaurant Industry in my land. Many with the "Conditional Pass" embarrassing sign that must be posted right at the entrance to the restaurant for all to see -- and hopefully turn around and walk away. Kiss of Death, quite often. Even a Subway got nailed. Ever watch an episode of Hell's Kitchen? I definitely want regulations and regulators in the food industry. Doesn't prevent some lazy slob serving me a salmonella sandwich, but it helps.

 

[PapaSloth]

That is exactly my point. how many stories have you heard about body parts and stuff found in fast food. Not to mention what they consider food at fast food places. How is writing laws going to stop the 2% of juice makers that are unethical? its not. so who does it help?

That's what's wrong with the world today. You ship millions of cans of chili for decades, and nobody says "boo." Then you ship one can with a human finger in it, and it's all anyone ever wants to talk about. That's less than 1ppm of human finger, on average.

 

[rbrylawski]

That is exactly my point. how many stories have you heard about body parts and stuff found in fast food. Not to mention what they consider food at fast food places. How is writing laws going to stop the 2% of juice makers that are unethical? its not. so who does it help?

So your argument is if something can go unnoticed, there's no point in trying to enforce better safer standards to begin with??

If yes, I'm grateful you're not in charge of say the DOT which has pushed out many things that have made driving a car and actually surviving an automobile accident better and safer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TomGeorge]

So your argument is if something can go unnoticed, there's no point in trying to enforce better safer standards to begin with??

If yes, I'm grateful you're not in charge of say the DOT which has pushed out many things that have made driving a car and actually surviving an automobile accident better and safer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not exactly. I asked sub what how he would have the regulations enforced, because I could not come up with a good way of doing so.

Talking about the DOT, they have cops that patrol as they get their safety equipment from a mass manufacturing plant, both of which I spitball but deemed not feasible (cost and poor quality).

I think the industry will regulate itself because they want to make money, and killing their consumers with poisonous eliquid is not the best way to do that, or we would all be dead already. And we live in a world with the internets, and information and bad reviews travel quickly. Government intervention and taxation is not going to fix anything.

 

[stevegmu]

That is exactly my point. how many stories have you heard about body parts and stuff found in fast food. Not to mention what they consider food at fast food places. How is writing laws going to stop the 2% of juice makers that are unethical? its not. so who does it help?

I can't imagine the conditions at some restaurants or in food processing if there were no regulations or oversight... The finger found in chili case was fraud...

 

[Tranquility Base]

Regulating the nic, or battery safety, is one thing, but I'm not in favor of regulating the hardware. Gets ridiculous, like "paraphernalia" laws. Shop owners getting busted for what amounts to plumbing parts and simple glassware because of "unmentionable" laws. Most e-cigs are the same, just plastic, glass and metal tubes. Any regulation virtually unenforceable should be reconsidered. A law without teeth is merely a suggestion, clutters up the courts, and provides more opportunity for abuses like selective enforcement and prosecution.

 

[TomGeorge]

I can't imagine the conditions at some restaurants or in food processing if there were no regulations or oversight... The finger found in chili case was fraud...

Yet there are still restaurants and food plants that get shutdown, even with regulations...probably the same ones that would close because no one would want to eat there anyway, without regulations. The chicken head found in a happy meal was not. (nor is what they use to make chicken nuggets)

PS how did we move from underage vaping to this? I read the first half of the thread and jumped to the end, I must have missed something.

 

[PapaSloth]

PS how did we move from underage vaping to this? I read the first half of the thread and jumped to the end, I must have missed something.

It's really a very short causal chain:

Underage Vaping -> Regulation -> Does Regulation Work?

 

[Tranquility Base]

It's really a very short causal chain:

Underage Vaping -> Regulation -> Does Regulation Work?

.... with a caboose nowhere in sight. We'll wind up with a system that settles somewhere in the middle of what everyone wants and no one will be happy, but at least that will keep 90% of the internet forums alive.

 

[stevegmu]

Yet there are still restaurants and food plants that get shutdown, even with regulations...probably the same ones that would close because no one would want to eat there anyway, without regulations. The chicken head found in a happy meal was not. (nor is what they use to make chicken nuggets)

PS how did we move from underage vaping to this? I read the first half of the thread and jumped to the end, I must have missed something.

Ok, so rather than have some regulations, just wait until people get sick or die, then the business will close. Why have labor laws or OSHA? Once enough people get hurt or killed at a factory, surely the factory will close...

 

[TomGeorge]

Ok, so rather than have some regulations, just wait until people get sick or die, then the business will close. Why have labor laws or OSHA? Once enough people get hurt or killed at a factory, surely the factory will close...

You still havent stated an effective way to enact these regulations.

 

[stevegmu]

You still havent stated an effective way to enact these regulations.

Health inspectors and the FDA... How is anything regulated? Through government agencies. To think e-liquid won't be regulated is a joke. It will be.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

Or ensure adherence via enforcement. Then someone has to pay for the enforcement.

Some folks just can't wait to pay $50 per 30ml

 

[PapaSloth]

.... with a caboose nowhere in sight. We'll wind up with a system that settles somewhere in the middle of what everyone wants and no one will be happy, but at least that will keep 90% of the internet forums alive.

That's the definition of a compromise, "everyone feels like they've been screwed equally."