The Elephant in the Room

[Jman8]

I smoked while using the gum and patch. So yeah, I found them completely useless. vaping is the ONLY thing that has gotten me completely off cigarettes.

I find this to be very common for vapers. I am not one of those vapers. The only thing that has gotten me completely off of cigs is cold turkey. Three times. Now that "three times" is a little humorous until you realize that I once went cold turkey longer than any vaper alive today has quit smoking via vaping, so currently, for me, cold turkey is the method that I KNOW will completely get me off of smoking longer than any vaper/ex-smoker has quit smoking. I find that matters.

I do find that vaping has consistently reduced my desire / cravings for smoking, and am now a moderate smoker. I like that label a lot. Perhaps some day I will not, and will choose, I think rather easily, to stop smoking and continue to only vape. Or I may choose to go cold turkey altogether from nicotine usage at all, as I have done previously.

I see this relating to this topic because people say that if a child starts vaping (nicotine), they may develop dependence/addiction and a dependence on nicotine is inherently bad, or equals bad parenting / protection toward a child. I think that point could use further exploration, and fortunately we (society) is choosing to study just how harmful (or risky) is it to be dependent on nicotine even if not smoking. While the ideal of "don't be dependent on anything ever" is a wonderful proposition, it is so extremely rare that I encounter a person not addicted/dependent on something that I no longer feel like we are discussing reality of life on earth when such an assertion is put forth. Kids are very likely (like 99.9% likely) to be already well addicted to sugar before they try nicotine, that it would seem odd/irrational to claim the nicotine addiction will be that which messes them up for life.

With proper gear, and free reign of juice (with whatever level of nic in it), I believe anyone, of any age, would be able to either greatly minimize the effects of smoking on their system, if not eliminate it. So if the current state of affairs around smoking/cigs is going to be about the same going forward, then it would seem highly imprudent to not have greater access to vaping gear to all persons who are observably in a segment of the population that takes up smoking. If zero 15 year olds in the last 10 years are taking up smoking, then I would see little (though some) reason for making sure they have equal access to vaping. Yet, in reality that I've lived in for around 45 years, 13 and up (to 18) is age when many, if not overwhelming majority of people start smoking. But you can't smoke if you are under 18. And yet, under the paradigm of "you can't smoke if you are under 18," there are smokers in that subset of the population who are routinely able to obtain cigarettes, as if no law that the adult population passes really PREVENTS minors from smoking.

Just as no law will prevent minors from vaping. But minors that are vaping will be not purchasing on the open market. NRTs are available on open market. Some even offer their product to 12 and up, thus establishing that a minor is very much permitted to use nicotine, as if there isn't a dispute to be had here and instead is seen as a form of protection toward minors.

 

[rbrylawski]

I find this to be very common for vapers. I am not one of those vapers. The only thing that has gotten me completely off of cigs is cold turkey. Three times. Now that "three times" is a little humorous until you realize that I once went cold turkey longer than any vaper alive today has quit smoking via vaping, so currently, for me, cold turkey is the method that I KNOW will completely get me off of smoking longer than any vaper/ex-smoker has quit smoking. I find that matters.

I do find that vaping has consistently reduced my desire / cravings for smoking, and am now a moderate smoker. I like that label a lot. Perhaps some day I will not, and will choose, I think rather easily, to stop smoking and continue to only vape. Or I may choose to go cold turkey altogether from nicotine usage at all, as I have done previously.

I see this relating to this topic because people say that if a child starts vaping (nicotine), they may develop dependence/addiction and a dependence on nicotine is inherently bad, or equals bad parenting / protection toward a child. I think that point could use further exploration, and fortunately we (society) is choosing to study just how harmful (or risky) is it to be dependent on nicotine even if not smoking. While the ideal of "don't be dependent on anything ever" is a wonderful proposition, it is so extremely rare that I encounter a person not addicted/dependent on something that I no longer feel like we are discussing reality of life on earth when such an assertion is put forth. Kids are very likely (like 99.9% likely) to be already well addicted to sugar before they try nicotine, that it would seem odd/irrational to claim the nicotine addiction will be that which messes them up for life.

With proper gear, and free reign of juice (with whatever level of nic in it), I believe anyone, of any age, would be able to either greatly minimize the effects of smoking on their system, if not eliminate it. So if the current state of affairs around smoking/cigs is going to be about the same going forward, then it would seem highly imprudent to not have greater access to vaping gear to all persons who are observably in a segment of the population that takes up smoking. If zero 15 year olds in the last 10 years are taking up smoking, then I would see little (though some) reason for making sure they have equal access to vaping. Yet, in reality that I've lived in for around 45 years, 13 and up (to 18) is age when many, if not overwhelming majority of people start smoking. But you can't smoke if you are under 18. And yet, under the paradigm of "you can't smoke if you are under 18," there are smokers in that subset of the population who are routinely able to obtain cigarettes, as if no law that the adult population passes really PREVENTS minors from smoking.

Just as no law will prevent minors from vaping. But minors that are vaping will be not purchasing on the open market. NRTs are available on open market. Some even offer their product to 12 and up, thus establishing that a minor is very much permitted to use nicotine, as if there isn't a dispute to be had here and instead is seen as a form of protection toward minors.

I'm not going to add anything more about teens and vaping. I think that's been discussed to death. I can tell you I also quit smoking cold turkey once. I was off nicotine for a full two years. The first three months were pure unadulterated he!!. I was so awful to be around people offered to buy me a pack of cigarettes. I was almost invited (well more like begged) to pack my things and leave. Things finally got better, but I'd wake up every single day dreaming of smoking a cigarette. I'd go outside at work just to watch people light one and secretly pretend I was enjoying that first pure drag of smoke into my lungs. Two years after quitting, the economy took a nosedive (remember the great recession, anyone?). I lost my job I'd had for 16 years and the great income that came with it. I walked up to the first smoker I saw and I remember saying these words exactly........."give me one or die!" And they did. I smoke a full pack that day and just went right back to a pack a day addiction. I was VERY disappointed in myself. I allowed a bad time in my life to put me right back where I was and trust me, after two years of not smoking, I felt good, I had more energy, I didn't cough and wheeze, I could run, workout at the gym, sleep better, taste food better. Still, for me smoking was such a powerful addiction, it took control of me again.

Now, it's been over two years since I had a smoke. I feel good again. I don't cough or wheeze. Food tastes great. And I don't snap at people. I haven't been invited to move out of my home since I started vaping! For me vaping is the right option. Whether I'm addicted to nicotine for the rest of my life, I get enjoyment from Vaping, yet I trust it's not nearly as horrendous to my health as smoking was.

I do not want to smoke. Period. Even though I enjoyed it.

 

[Jman8]

I'm not going to add anything more about teens and vaping. I think that's been discussed to death. I can tell you I also quit smoking cold turkey once. I was off nicotine for a full two years. The first three months were pure unadulterated he!!. I was so awful to be around people offered to buy me a pack of cigarettes.

Sorry to hear it was so difficult for you. I understand why it could be. My 2nd time cold turkey was a little on the hellish side. My first time was, for me, a spiritual awakening (that I see no reason to downplay) and was super duper easy to stop. I never felt forbidden from having one and yet was very much in non-smoker mode for several years. Had my moments of being ANTZ like in this period but not to level of being vocally anti. When I started after having stopped for 8 years, it is easy to 2nd guess that choice, though I see it as choice and did think I could just have the few I wanted one evening and I'd stop indefinitely. That didn't work out so well, but was mostly on enjoyable side for being a smoker again, then.

Now that I am moderate smoker, I look at stopping in way different mindset than I used to. I always wanted to be able to be moderate smoker who could take it or leave it and didn't have incessant cravings for smoking, which I always considered the norm. Tonight, after social smoking a few, I had that experience of (slight) panic when you realize you only have 1 left in a pack. Then that was quickly followed by reminder I am moderate smoker. In the past, it would've been minutes or an hour at most that I would've bought a new pack. Now, I'm thinking 3 days from today will be okay time for next pack, or after cold spell is snapped in my neck of the woods. I find it really cool / interesting / celebratory to have 1 smoke left in my 3 week old pack and not feel any sense of desperation or urgency in having to get more.

I realize if you are one that has struggled with smoking cessation, that moderate smoking is playing with fire and hard to fathom. In my first year of vaping I thought it possible and had some glimpses at it, but really never obtained moderate smoker status, averaging a pack every 2 to 5 days. In the last few months, or around 8, I like that I average a pack every 3 weeks, and while it works out to about one a day, reality is it is more like 2 to 4 in a day every 4 days or so. I often smoke half at a time as moderate smoker.

I strongly prefer vaping, but still find I can enjoy a smoke, without craving it.

What this all has to do with OP (children vaping), I'm not exactly sure, but felt like sharing anyway.

 

[Vermonster13]

When have you seen a list of all the ingredients in cigarettes? The FDA has the list for each brand but they aren't public knowledge because they are considered proprietary trade secrets. So give the FDA control and you'll likely know less about what is in your juice than you do now.

 

[Alto101]

When have you seen a list of all the ingredients in cigarettes? The FDA has the list for each brand but they aren't public knowledge because they are considered proprietary trade secrets. So give the FDA control and you'll likely know less about what is in your juice than you do now.

Very good point. Nothing the FDA is proposing will actually benefit us. The FDA is not out to protect us or to improve our vaping experience in any way.

In an ideal world I would welcome reasonable regulations however the FDA is not capable of doing this if left to their own devices. I am feeling optimistic that the FDA's power will be limited for at least the next two years due to the change in Congress. I am hoping that the industry will continue to grow over the next two years and become better organized and represented. I would also hope for better self-regulation and more real science being done.

 

[WattWick]

When have you seen a list of all the ingredients in cigarettes? The FDA has the list for each brand but they aren't public knowledge because they are considered proprietary trade secrets. So give the FDA control and you'll likely know less about what is in your juice than you do now.

Not really arguing with you. I get that this reply is only borderline relevant to your post.
Not a list for each brand out there, but there is a list of additives used in cigarettes from 1994.

List of additives in cigarettes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Among all the stuff I don't know anything about, I find it interesting to note that two of the additives are Glycerol and Propylene Glycol. So much for the smokers playing the anti-freeze card

 

[Jan Graskewicz]

I still believe if you make something for adults only you are only waving a red flag in front of the kids. No alcohol, they will find a way to drink. No smoking. They will find a way to smoke. Same with vaping. On the other hand I don't think they will Vape long. Too much work. Filling, refilling, cleaning, changing coils, etc. The kids will get bored. Doesn't make you high or anything. Just tastes good.


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[stevegmu]

The society we live in isn't willing to see children vaping... Should they start vaping en masse, there will be bans, actual bans, not just calls to action which never amount to anything...

 

[Jman8]

Vaping. It's what's for breakfast!

With our custom ingredients and fine nutrients (nicotine free of course) your child can get all the essential vitamins and minerals in the morning to carry them through the whole day. We are committed to getting rid of obesity one child at a time. Doctor recommended, and mother approved.

 

[towelie]

weird coincidence when I was searching youtube for this VUSE cigalike...this kid seems to have moved on from smoking to vaping....

 

[rbrylawski]

weird coincidence when I was searching youtube for this VUSE cigalike...this kid seems to have moved on from smoking to vaping....

He's what? Maybe 10 years old? I'm sorry but that's just sad, at least to me it is......


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[towelie]

I read the comments and understand he's 11. Now some here would say this is EXACTLY why they want regulation forced on us, yet if you look at his channel its full of vids of him smoking, which is already regulated. He doesn't care, neither does his mom. How do you regulate that? Right, you can't.

 

[QU1T]

weird coincidence when I was searching youtube for this VUSE cigalike...this kid seems to have moved on from smoking to vaping....

This is horrible to look at, for me anyway.

 

[rbrylawski]

I read the comments and understand he's 11. Now some here would say this is EXACTLY why they want regulation forced on us, yet if you look at his channel its full of vids of him smoking, which is already regulated. He doesn't care, neither does his mom. How do you regulate that? Right, you can't.

Well if his mom knows what he's doing and has no issue with what her 11 year old son is doing its even sadder. Just out of curiosity I checked out one of his vids of him smoking a cigarette. Sad is all I can say.....


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[stevegmu]

The Internet is probably his father figure. Just wait until the FDA sees this... I am surprised youtube allows vid of illegal activity. I am sure plenty on here will say he should be allowed to vape though...

 

[towelie]

This is horrible to look at, for me anyway.

Kinda the point of the thread imho as bad as this is, and it is bad; its better than the other vids of him smoking KOOL's for me personally.

Well if his mom knows what he's doing and has no issue with what her 11 year old son is doing its even sadder. Just out of curiosity I checked out one of his vids of him smoking a cigarette. Sad is all I can say.....


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In this vid he says he got the VUSE with a coupon, obviously addressed to his mom. Other vids he smokes in the house while his mom is in the other room. Oh she knows alright.

The Internet is probably his father figure. Just wait until the FDA sees this... I am surprised youtube allows vid of illegal activity. I am sure plenty on here will say he should be allowed to vape though...

I am not saying he should or shouldn't be allowed in a philosophical utopian collective argument; I am showing that he is indeed allowed to vape and smoke regardless of the argument or laws and regulations.

I would like to point out that this kid is vaping a product from Big Tobacco that Big Tobacco has deemed a Tobacco Product.

 

[BigEgo]

Count me in as one of the people who doesn't give a crap about "save the children." It's an old and tired argument that government always uses to restrict our rights. Am I going to encourage children to vape? Nope. Am I going to let them use my PV? No.

If I had children (I don't), I would see to it that they didn't use tobacco products. However, I am a realist and I understand that parents will never know *everything* a child does. Mine certainly didn't know everything I did as evidenced by the fact I began smoking at about age 14 or so. I would prefer it that if kids were going to experiment with tobacco that they would try vaping instead. If we can put tobacco completely out of business, then that would be a huge improvement.

My point here is that it's up to the parents. I am tired of the government restricting what I can do because "we all have to think of the children." No, it's *not* my responsibility to be a babysitter for everyone else's children. I am fine with laws restricting minors from buying tobacco or vaping equipment, but with the Internet that kind of thing is really hard to enforce these days. Again, it's up to the parents.

 

[readeuler]

Am I going to encourage children to vape? Nope. Am I going to let them use my PV? No.

Getting their sticky little fingers all over my 26 dollar mod? Not a chance!

 

[Jman8]

I am sure plenty on here will say he should be allowed to vape though...

He is already allowed to vape, per his parents. No "should" is necessary.

Always interesting how the "shouldn't be allowed to" crowd tries to reverse these things.

Talk about sad.

 

[stevegmu]

He is already allowed to vape, per his parents. No "should" is necessary.

Always interesting how the "shouldn't be allowed to" crowd tries to reverse these things.

Talk about sad.

I was of course speaking legally. The extremists on here don't seem to think there should be age limits, but videos like this will ensure there will be..Yes, it is sad the extremists think children should be allowed to use tobacco products...