The Elephant in the Room

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Jman8

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I was of course speaking legally. The extremists on here don't seem to think there should be age limits, but videos like this will ensure there will be..Yes, it is sad the extremists think children should be allowed to use tobacco products...

Not as sad as the hypocrites who were smoking/using tobacco when they were under 18, and now think it's totally cool to deny those under 18 from doing the same thing they did.

These extremists are a huge reason why there is a black market that caters to kids.
 

stevegmu

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Not as sad as the hypocrites who were smoking/using tobacco when they were under 18, and now think it's totally cool to deny those under 18 from doing the same thing they did.

These extremists are a huge reason why there is a black market that caters to kids.

Kids buy cigarettes on the black market... :facepalm:
 

Jman8

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I don't see how its sad trying to stop or warn an under age or legal age from making the same mistake most of on here made

Cause some and arguably vast majority, don't (really) see it as a mistake.

To me, the mistake is increasing your age and then giving into ageism, but denying that and pretending like your position isn't based mostly to entirely on hypocrisy.

Furthermore, the position isn't one of simple warning, but of absolute forbiddance. Under the position that would allow it, there would be nothing to stop guidance / warnings. Forbidding it, while saying it is okay for these other people to do it (who seemingly enjoy it immensely), makes the position weak and/or incredibly shallow. Thus, not guidance, but confusing at the very least, and temptation when looked at honestly.

Would also be interesting, for sake of discussion, if we lived in a shared reality where forbiddance actually worked. Instead, it continues to show up as utter failure and way to manipulate certain adults on a whole bunch of political issues.
 

TomGeorge

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Kids buy cigarettes on the black market... :facepalm:

Do you think the 11 year old kid in the video goes to 7-11 and asks for a pack of smokes? or do you think there is an older high school loser who steels his dads and sells them to young kids? The black market isnt an actual place you go to buy all things illegal
 

rbrylawski

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Do you think the 11 year old kid in the video goes to 7-11 and asks for a pack of smokes? or do you think there is an older high school loser who steels his dads and sells them to young kids? The black market isnt an actual place you go to buy all things illegal

The fact that in some of his videos, he smokes with his mom in the room, likely indicates his mother probably buys them for him. She should be arrested for child neglect.


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TomGeorge

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The fact that in some of his videos, he smokes with his mom in the room, likely indicates his mother probably buys them for him. She should be arrested for child neglect.


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I totally agree, but that wasnt the point of my post. Even that would be considered the black market if he paid her for them...maybe with allowance money

"A black market or underground economy is the market in which goods or services are traded illegally. The key distinction of a black market trade is that the transaction itself is illegal. The goods or services may or may not themselves be illegal to own, or to trade through other, legal channels. Because the transactions are illegal, the market itself is forced to operate outside the formal economy, supported by the established state power"
 

Plastic Shaman

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I totally agree, but that wasnt the point of my post. Even that would be considered the black market if he paid her for them...maybe with allowance money

"A black market or underground economy is the market in which goods or services are traded illegally. The key distinction of a black market trade is that the transaction itself is illegal. The goods or services may or may not themselves be illegal to own, or to trade through other, legal channels. Because the transactions are illegal, the market itself is forced to operate outside the formal economy, supported by the established state power"
I don't know if one terrible mother qualifies as a market or economy.
 

TomGeorge

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I don't know if one terrible mother qualifies as a market or economy.

They way in which he acquired the cgs, circumnavigated the current legal system set up, therefore he acquired them through a backdoor, black market means.

There is also more than just this kid smoking and vaping. If there wasnt I dont think this would be an issue that is being talked about... I am positive, that not all of the kids smoking have a "cool" mom who buys them smokes. They have to turn to the black market (probably not a guy in a trench coat peddling stolen watches and loosies)
 

PapaSloth

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They way in which he acquired the cgs, circumnavigated the current legal system set up, therefore he acquired them through a backdoor, black market means.

There is also more than just this kid smoking and vaping. If there wasnt I dont think this would be an issue that is being talked about... I am positive, that not all of the kids smoking have a "cool" mom who buys them smokes. They have to turn to the black market (probably not a guy in a trench coat peddling stolen watches and loosies)

Definition of "market:"

  • a regular gathering of people for the purchase and sale of provisions, livestock, and other commodities.
    "farmers going to market"
    an open space or covered building where vendors convene to sell their goods.
    synonyms: marketplace, mart, flea market, bazaar, fair; archaicemporium
    "browsing through old postcards at the antiques market"
  • an area or arena in which commercial dealings are conducted.
    "the sale of cruisers in the American market continues to plummet"
Based on these definitions, I think you have the "black" part, but not necessarily the "market" part.
 

Jman8

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Buying, or obtaining goods, on the black market may actually be a nicer experience than buying on an open market. Those who think it is only dark and seedy either have no experience with the black market or are thinking some fictional account on 'black market' is what it must be like throughout the entire world.

If it is dark and seedy (and very well could be), it is likely because local/national government has essentially declared war on the item and/or wants only its channels to be the sanctioned sellers who are likely very okay with the high taxation aspect.

If you've ever downloaded something illegally (i.e. music you didn't pay for), then you've possibly engaged in the black market. How dark and seedy was that experience for you?
 

Plastic Shaman

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Buying, or obtaining goods, on the black market may actually be a nicer experience than buying on an open market. Those who think it is only dark and seedy either have no experience with the black market or are thinking some fictional account on 'black market' is what it must be like throughout the entire world.

If it is dark and seedy (and very well could be), it is likely because local/national government has essentially declared war on the item and/or wants only its channels to be the sanctioned sellers who are likely very okay with the high taxation aspect.

If you've ever downloaded something illegally (i.e. music you didn't pay for), then you've possibly engaged in the black market. How dark and seedy was that experience for you?

I guess it's a matter of perspective, but I don't see copyright infringement as part of the black market. I'm sure many people would come up with different definitions of the black market; however, the way it is being used here makes the term lose it's meaning. Under these definitions, any kind of theft, or dealing goods in a way that violates civil or criminal statutes, would be considered part of the black market.

To illustrate my point, let's pretend a store owner decides that they are not going to comply with a regulation or tax. Would that mean that anyone who buys goods from the store owner is now participating in the black market? Under these definitions, I suppose it would. However, I think this kills the meaning of the phrase. Just something to think about.
 

VapinWolf

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I guess it's a matter of perspective, but I don't see copyright infringement as part of the black market. I'm sure many people would come up with different definitions of the black market; however, the way it is being used here makes the term lose it's meaning. Under these definitions, any kind of theft, or dealing goods in a way that violates civil or criminal statutes, would be considered part of the black market.

To illustrate my point, let's pretend a store owner decides that they are not going to comply with a regulation or tax. Would that mean that anyone who buys goods from the store owner is now participating in the black market? Under these definitions, I suppose it would. However, I think this kills the meaning of the phrase. Just something to think about.
As a former store owner I assure you that if I had sold a single pack of cigarettes with just one tax stamp missing (state, county, city, it varies by jurisdiction how many are on each pack) that is considered a black market transaction.
Same applies to copyright infringement. Any transaction that bypasses the legal requirements is considered a black market transaction. :vapor:

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Plastic Shaman

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As a former store owner I assure you that if I had sold a single pack of cigarettes with just one tax stamp missing (state, county, city, it varies by jurisdiction how many are on each pack) that is considered a black market transaction.
Same applies to copyright infringement. Any transaction that bypasses the legal requirements is considered a black market transaction. :vapor:

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Wouldn't almost all of have engaged in the black market at some point? Most of us, whether knowingly or not, have watched something on sites like Youtube that engages in some form of copyright infringement. So are all of us, as well as Youtube, participants in the black market?
 
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