The end of microcoils?

[tchavei]

Personally (opinion based on just empirical observation), I will continue to use titanium coils exclusively AND I will continue to mildly torch them.

Why? Subjective observation has shown me that one can't control heat properly by dry burning titanium. Titanium dioxide will form rather quickly on the surface. My personal opinion is that this is caused by the heating + exposure to surrounding oxygen.

When I mildly torch my coils, it's much harder to produce that grey dull layer of TiO2. Under normal vaping conditions, even after 40 days of 24/7 use, a blue/gold torched titanium coil will stay blue / gold without a hint of the titanium dioxide.

Is TiO2 bad? I believe it's not as bad as people paint it but... Just to be on the safe side, I avoid forming it deliberately on my coils.

My two undervalued euro cents

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[beckdg]

Yeah, I have but I was protected because I was vaping.

Does San Francisco count?

Either way, I think I'll protect myself.

Tapatyped

 

[Magaro]

I'm referring to the USC study that is being discussed in the thread you linked. Keep in mind, though, that that is not the only study that detected heavy metals in e-cig vapor. It appears to be a real phenomenon.

Another study used a very janky looking cartomizer with a nichrome wire that was soldered to a silver coated copper wire. However, they did find nickel and chromium in the vapor (which is what nichrome is composed of) which suggests that there is some leeching of metals from the wire. The levels of the metals were similar to or exceeded cigarette smoke, so we can't merely brush it off as "background noise."

Another study found that vaping caused a 2-4 fold increase of aluminum in indoor air (Kanthal has aluminum in it).

Remember that heavy metals are cumulative, so there is really no "safe limit" for these metals as it's all about chronic exposure. The less the better. I am going to keep on vaping, though.

You're not implying that aluminum is a heavy metal, are you? Because that would be, more or less, actually completely wrong.

 

[zoiDman]

You're not implying that aluminum is a heavy metal, are you? Because that would be, more or less, actually completely wrong.

With an Atomic Number of 13, Al does seem like one of the Lighter Ones.

But I think I get the Gist of what BigEgo is say'n.

 

[MacTechVpr]

…Kanthal was designed as a heating element. Its oxidation ensures its durability and resistance to corrosion. As acknowledged by Dr. Fasalinos ceramic insulates (isolates) the base metal/s deterring metallic oxidation of the vaped product. Such a wire/wind not properly oxidized would then exhibit all the primary metal exposure as the alternatives, to both product and the airstream...

@Magaro if I could pick your brain a minute (or anyone with some info please). Dunno if you caught my above earlier post and specifically the point on Kanthal oxidation? Assuming uniform wire surface oxidation what's it take or the likelihood of the underlying metal bypassing an alumina barrier?

How would you go about getting an answer to this question? What would be the parameters for consideration?

Hope I'm not putting you on the spot and more will kick in.

Thanks and good luck.

 

[Magaro]

@Magaro if I could pick your brain a minute (or anyone with some info please). Dunno if you caught my above earlier post and specifically the point on Kanthal oxidation? Assuming uniform wire surface oxidation what's it take or the likelihood of the underlying metal bypassing an alumina barrier?

How would you go about getting an answer to this question? What would be the parameters for consideration?

Hope I'm not putting you on the spot and more will kick in.

Thanks and good luck.

The aluminum oxide scale which forms on Kanthal is virtually impervious to diffusion by Iron or Nickel. That's why Kanthal heating coils of all kinds last so long. The oxide is highly resistant to spalling, and has very high electrical resistivity, making coils resistant to shorting.

 

[Magaro]

For anyone who would like to know more about Kanthal, here is a great place to start:

http://www2.kanthal.com/sandvik/097...1-A-2-3 appliance handbook US.pdf?OpenElement

 

[Punkndrublic]

This has been one of the most interesting, educational and informative threads. Thanks to everyone for contributing.

 

[Caterpiller]

So sorry, Caterpillar... Do you need a good recipe for crème brûlée?

It's becoming clear that we need an alternative to Kanthal, Ni200 and Titanium.

So as not to loose the entire value of my recent purchase of a soldering torch, and while searching for a alternative coil material, I have started building my coils from the pack of solder that was included in this set.

It is suprisingly easy to work with a produces attractive coils!

Unfortunately each coil is only good for one high intenisty vape burn - and there is a distinct metallic flavour to the vapour.

The search continues...

 

[tw33k]

Anybody else read this? Metals emitted from e-cigarettes are NOT a reason for health concern

 

[Monotremata]

No doubt about it. Aluminum is particularly entertaining.

Have you ever been stuck in LA traffic on a smoggy day behind an 18-wheeler?

I rest my case. Until further notice.

HAH! I spent the last 5 years living out in the Coachella Valley, before that I was up in Ventura for 10. Out in Coachella I was shocked I could actually SEE the night sky and pick out constellations again.. Around 10 at night Orion used to hang right over our front yard it was awesome. Just moved back to the good old IE at the beginning of the month and guess what, cant see CRAP in the night sky out here. Even in the daytime, its a different shade of "blue" than Coachella was. Was driving down to Walnut for a job interview today and yep, got stuck behind a rig while I had my window down (and vaping).. That thing was spitting out the most ungodly fumes from its exhaust I had to look and see if my car was on fire or something.. I dont know but, after a year of vaping and the improvement my body has undergone from quitting smoking, Im thinking we have worse things to worry about than this issue.. Do you see how tiny our coils are? Compared to the exhaust that comes out of one of those rigs or a school bus? I dont know anyone that takes vapes that big do you??

 

[etherealink]

No, he doesn't--other than suggesting vaguely that you should throw away a pan that's been overheated.

Wrt common sense, that's a bit problematic for me here. I have very little common sense that's of any use when it comes to metallurgy... When Dr. F makes a study and finds diacetyl in our eliquids, I can apply common sense, because I know that using less or avoiding it altogether will minimize my risk of exposure to potentially harmful chemical.

But this is different--one opinion is that oxidation is not only necessary for proper functioning of the coil but that it also protects the vaper from unnecessary exposure (if I understand this correctly). Dr. F, on the other hand, warns adamantly that any form of heating a dry wire, torching or pulsing, will necessarily damage the alloy and release dangerous metals into the vapor. For starters, there two kinds of kanthal wire on the market--annealed and not annealed. I use the latter. Does it mean that people using annealed kanthal are doomed from the get-go? And those who use non-annealed wire--should they use it as is? Just wrap a coil, wick and vape? My common sense is not helping...

And then there is this study by Dr. F, which seems to show that there are no significant dangers from metals in vapor:

Metals emitted from e-cigarettes are NOT a reason for health concern

How were those coils prepared and tested? Have they been heated at any point during production? I have no idea.

Last night I saw this on Dr. F's facebook page:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...2IHAAg&usg=AFQjCNHnyGm0Ca_-sx4AWemlRMxi4TRT6Q

Konstantinos Farsalinos: There was a study finding heavy metals. It is possible that some types of wires are better than others. Unless tested, how would someone know?
November 21, 2013 at 3:46pm

I give up...

Oh good god, how many damn times t here did he blatantly state that he didn't want to do anything and that someone else needed to do it for him?!?

And you wonder why the study was never done and his crowdfunding is useless...

I'll just inhale heavy metal, thanks.

I'm out.

 

[etherealink]

Good article that touches a bit on tootle puffing vs cloud chasing as well as the original topic of dry burning and metal inhalation.

I noticed that too. Summing up; thou shalt not dry burn & thou shalt only tootle puff, never chase the dreaded clouds.

/sarcasm

 

[etherealink]

No doubt about it. Aluminum is particularly entertaining.

Have you ever been stuck in LA traffic on a smoggy day behind an 18-wheeler? [emoji38]

I rest my case. Until further notice.

Hey now, I drive an 18 wheeler and it's certified for clean idle by the state of California... do the math on that one!

Oh, and don't be around when *it* dry burns! And yes, it really does periodically lol

 

[Troll from behind]

So what all this fuss is basically about, is the age old truth, that it's safer not to vape than vape yet again, but this time it isn't about gennies or nicrome.
All this article does, is make me think I ought to drop my watts and rise my nic, going through 10+ mls a day can't be good for you in a long run.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[oplholik]

Now that @Troll from behind, sounds reasonable to me.
Of course I'm a low watt user anyway.

 

[Lessifer]

Or you could try mid level watts with mid level nic, and just vape less.

 

[beckdg]

Hey now, I drive an 18 wheeler and it's certified for clean idle by the state of California... do the math on that one!

Oh, and don't be around when *it* dry burns! And yes, it really does periodically lol

Mine will usually only start the dry burn right before I'm going to stop and park it for a bit.

More than half my regens are done parked at the truck stop... not by choice.

I'm sure my nightly neighbors enjoy my company... and some heavy metal fumes.

Tapatyped

 

[Katya]

For anyone who would like to know more about Kanthal, here is a great place to start:

http://www2.kanthal.com/sandvik/0971/internet/s003237.nsf/F6421C7808255963C12572BB001C8704/$file/1-A-2-3 appliance handbook US.pdf?OpenElement

Thanks Magaro. Interesting read. Above my pay grade, mostly, but I found the different applications of kanthal embedded in ceramic (ceramic tiles) promising. Should it turn out that using bare wire (annealed or not, spaced or touching, with or without the protective aluminum oxide scale) in our coils does indeed pose a danger (especially with constant contact with potentially corrosive eliquids, as Dr. F seems to believe), maybe a ceramic coil is the answer? Ceramic might provide an inert surface on which to vaporize the eliquids. I have no idea how practical (or costly) that might be, but the technology clearly exists--and ceramic coils would be much longer lasting than bare-wire ones, methinks.

 

[CMD-Ky]

After reading all of this, I will change a little. All dry burning will be conducted in short intervals with rather depleted batteries on my REO allowing the coils only to begin a soft glow in a dim room. [My thanks for the color chart.] It seems to me this has been "much ado about nothing".