The end of microcoils?

[drksideken]

Off topic:

I wish some of our decision-making, life-altering, elected officials could see the discussion going on here today.

Maybe they could understand that many of us just want to enjoy vaping in a sensible, responsible, reasonably safe manner.

Maybe not, when they stick their hands in their pockets and feel all that big tobacco money.

But maybe...

Unfortunately, there are plenty more out there in the world that don't take the time to understand and research the stuff. They just kind of bumble through the process and end up getting hurt or have mishaps with their stuff. It's really far and few between, but those are the ones the money grubbing officials, ANTZ and Tobacco companies are counting on to further their cause. More discussions are definitely a good thing, but I'm afraid that the people who frequent the message boards of various pro vaping sites are still in the minority.

 

[Magaro]

well, broken down into ions then. NaCl (salt) breaks down into sodium and chloride ions in water. If we melt metal it breaks down, possibly into ions or 'free ions' which are hazardous to our health. in chemistry the term molecular level is used more loosely, more in line with the definition of 'microscopic', something we cant see with the naked eye. molecule can be used to describe gaseous particles as well, although they are not molecules themselves.

when the first study came out that said formaldehyde and freeions was present in vaping, it was debunked etc, because the temperature they tested at were at a temp no one would ever vape at. When we dryburn our coils, arent those temperatures we would never vape at? Makes you think at the least.

They still aren't melt temperatures. In fact they are, at least for Kanthal, temperatures the alloys are designed to operate at. Granted, Kanthal alloys weren't designed for vaping, but they were designed to be used as high temperature resistively heated coils. So that's at least something.

 

[Rossum]

Thought experiment: Take a theoretically perfect empty container. Put in precisely one neutral atom of sodium and one neutral atom of chlorine. Make sure they collide. What happens? Some energy will be liberated when the sodium atom gives up its extra electron to the chlorine atom. But what you now have are two ions that with opposite charges that attract and that attraction will keep them together. Is that little electrically bound lump of of two atoms not a molecule?

 

[alicewonderland]

They still aren't melt temperatures. In fact they are, at least for Kanthal, temperatures the alloys are designed to operate at. Granted, Kanthal alloys weren't designed for vaping, but they were designed to be used as high temperature resistively heated coils. So that's at least something.

if its not melt temperatures then how did my nichrome melt? it literally melted into two pieces and broke off into a short circuit read on my dna40 board. I looked at the coil, and it was black charred and in two pieces. This was 24gauge nichrome at 40watts. I've even seen PBusardo has shown himself putting kanthal on certain mods and showing us the wire melting when dryburn firing it.

I definitely have seen it first hand and seen others do it. Not saying you can dryburn without doing it, but it is possible. I know for sure I cant dryburn my nichrome wires red because once they start to turn red it breaks down and gives that disgusting metal taste that never goes away, all due to the wire being heated to too high of a temperature and damaging the wire - not the cotton or juice.

 

[Alien Traveler]

I know you are. And at Times your are Right to be a Stickler for Word Usage.

Just say'n that Arguing about the Meaning or Merit of the "Molecular Level" isn't one of those Times.

I looks like you completely forgot what from the thread started. Go back and find about "the bonds between the metal molecules". Good luck.

 

[Lessifer]

If table salt doesn't exist, what makes my steak taste so good? It can't just be the pepper.

 

[Magaro]

if its not melt temperatures then how did my nichrome melt? it literally melted into two pieces and broke off into a short circuit read on my dna40 board. I looked at the coil, and it was black charred and in two pieces. This was 24gauge nichrome at 40watts. I've even seen PBusardo has shown himself putting kanthal on certain mods and showing us the wire melting when dryburn firing it.

I was referring to the temperatures we dry burn our coils at. If t was the melt temperature, our coils would melt.

 

[AntC]

Somehow I must have made a left turn, cus I originally was in a thread about coils and wire, but now I'm smack dab in the middle of a discussion about the existence of salt, and what is or isn't a molecule. What just happened?!

 

[alicewonderland]

I was referring to the temperatures we dry burn our coils at. If t was the melt temperature, our coils would melt.

well, i dryburned my nichrome how most people say to do it, you pulse it til u can see it glow evenly, and it most definitely melted. turned all black and grey and sagged after.

 

[zoiDman]

Thought experiment: Take a theoretically perfect empty container. Put in precisely one neutral atom of sodium and one neutral atom of chlorine. Make sure they collide. What happens? Some energy will be liberated when the sodium atom gives up its extra electron to the chlorine atom. But what you now have are two ions that with opposite charges that attract and that attraction will keep them together. Is that little electrically bound lump of of two atoms not a molecule?

That Cat Doesn't Die.

It Only Dies when we Observe it. It's the Observation that Determines the Outcome.

Somewhere Schrödinger is Smiling!

 

[Magaro]

Thought experiment: Take a theoretically perfect empty container. Put in precisely one neutral atom of sodium and one neutral atom of chlorine. Make sure they collide. What happens? Some energy will be liberated when the sodium atom gives up its extra electron to the chlorine atom. But what you now have are two ions that with opposite charges that attract and that attraction will keep them together. Is that little electrically bound lump of of two atoms not a molecule?

Were you born a trouble maker or is this a learned skill?

 

[zoiDman]

well, i dryburned my nichrome how most people say to do it, you pulse it til u can see it glow evenly, and it most definitely melted.

What type of Volts / Watts did you Dry Burn it at? I have Dry Burned NiChrome Countless Times, Never Melted it once.

Then Again, I wasn't trying to Melt it. Guess I could if I wanted to.

 

[Lessifer]

well, i dryburned my nichrome how most people say to do it, you pulse it til u can see it glow evenly, and it most definitely melted.

I've had that happen to me, but I think technically it just lost it's shape not "melted." Unless yours became a pool of melted nichrome. Mine drooped and touched the deck as if one of the coils unwound.

 

[Magaro]

Somehow I must have made a left turn, cus I originally was in a thread about coils and wire, but now I'm smack dab in the middle of a discussion about the existence of salt, and what is or isn't a molecule. What just happened?!

It's the witching hour - just go with it.

 

[Rossum]

Were you born a trouble maker or is this a learned skill?

My mother, may she rest in peace, claimed I was born that way.

 

[zoiDman]

Were you born a trouble maker or is this a learned skill?

Rossum is one of the Good Ones around here.

He likes to Lie in Wait. And sometimes will Follow a Thread for Days without saying Anything. But When he does.... Blamo. Look Out.

Here Comes the Truth.

 

[alicewonderland]

I've had that happen to me, but I think technically it just lost it's shape not "melted." Unless yours became a pool of melted nichrome. Mine drooped and touched the deck as if one of the coils unwound.

well it didnt turn into a pool of molten metal, it did what you said. Maybe the term I was looking for is it lost its structure, which leads me to believe on the 'molecular level' something changed. It just started changing colors from black to light grey and sagged/unwound, some would fall off the posts at the leads. I tried to vape one that turned color to that light grey color cuz i figured its just it being oxidized or whatever, but it gave me that disgusting metal taste.

this was 0.2ohm coil at 2.87v/40watts, just tried it again now on my vaporshark. Ive done it several times on accident on my mech mod as well at 0.2-0.3 at 3.7-4.2v. On the one I did just now on my vaporshark at 2.87v/40watts, it did sag a little and turned that grey oxidized color, and the smell of metal was coming off it, the leads turned black near the postholes, it didnt technically 'melt' but it definitely smelled bad and felt more brittle, I was just pulsing it like I would be if i was dry burning crust off.

there is also that opinion that some people dont use nichrome because it gives an off-taste, which sort of leads me to believe they are vaping/using it much like they would use kanthal which has a higher temp rating and getting that off-taste that could be caused by the structural integrity of the wire giving up at those temperatures (that nasty metal taste if you overheat your coils, or do a high powered build and dont have enough airflow to compensate to keep the coils cool). I still use both kanthal and nichrome, and when I use them correctly I can tell no difference in taste.

 

[Alien Traveler]

well, i dryburned my nichrome how most people say to do it, you pulse it til u can see it glow evenly, and it most definitely melted. turned all black and grey and sagged after.

It is possible - to melt wire when you just try to dry burn. Even a new wire if it has a local defect like tiny crack. Or old wire, it it has localized pitting. Local defect will decrease cross section of wire (make it locally thinner) and this place will be heated to much higher temperature than the rest of wire, it can melt (it happens with tungsten wire in light bulbs all the time).

 

[Bikenstein]

I've breathed more gases in by welding with one piece of NiChrome wire than I will dry burnin 1000 coils
I've also welded buku stainless, galvanized, aluminum, magnesium, and copper. But I do have COPD

 

[Lessifer]

well it didnt turn into a pool of molten metal, it did what you said. Maybe the term I was looking for is it lost its structure, which leads me to believe on the 'molecular level' something changed. It just started changing colors from black to light grey and sagged/unwound, some would fall off the posts at the leads. I tried to vape one that turned color to that light grey color cuz i figured its just it being oxidized or whatever, but it gave me that disgusting metal taste.

For me at least, I could never get nichrome to retain it's wound shape unless I torched it before winding it, which now we've been told not to do....