The end of microcoils?

[Magaro]

I'm essentially retired and don't have the restrictions you have. I also find it interesting that some folks choose to accept myth as fact and are resistant to any introduction of reality. I guess it's a case of a sort of vaping religion being developed and we all know that's a subject best not discussed in polite society. That makes it difficult to converse about much of anything that matters.

Some people want to be reassured that everything is all "puppies and kitties and sugar and spice".

Some people want to be reassured that they ARE paranoid and the world IS out to get them.

And some people simply want to understand the world and find their own way through it in a way that makes them happy and reasonably safe.

The first two types can't be helped. Unless they change. And I personally think they need to want to change.

Regards.

 

[druckle]

alien Traveler" data-source="post: 15860882" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Many years ago as a young researcher I had a stint with aircraft industry. We worked on creating of hard TiN coating in glow discharge on turbine blades.

Let me guess.....anti galling coatings for turbine engine roots (fir-trees)?

 

[Magaro]

From Pedro:

Chromium and nickel came from the coil itself, even when they did not dry-burn the coil. Although we explained in our risk-assessment analysis that the levels found were not a significant health concern, we cannot assure that heat treatment would not increase this concentration. Please refer to this article: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23526962

This paper is about some cheap over-fired cartomizer. What is the connection to hand-wound coils?

 

[zoiDman]

I'm essentially retired and don't have the restrictions you have. I also find it interesting that some folks choose to accept myth as fact and are resistant to any introduction of reality. I guess it's a case of a sort of vaping religion being developed and we all know that's a subject best not discussed in polite society. That makes it difficult to converse about much of anything that matters.

I think it is More a case of People do Not Know who to Believe.

One side says Something is Bad. One side says there is Nothing to Worry about.

People ask if e-Liquids can have an Effect on a Coil Material, any type of Coil Material? There aren't any Clear Answers.

People ask How Hot a Coil gets when it is Dry Burned? There doesn't seem to be a Definitive Answer.

People ask What Temperatures are Required for Cr Oxides to convert to Cr(VI) in a specific Alloy? Or if they even Can Form. There isn't any Consensus buy Extreme Temperature. Or Maybe they can but its Not Probable.

I didn't like the Statements that Dr. F made regarding Burn Burning. And I found the Lack of Supporting Documentation Baffling. But I see the Same thing going on with Many of the Questions that are Asked on this Forum.

I think it is Just Forum Life.

 

[Magaro]

Let me guess.....anti galling coatings for turbine engine roots (fir-trees)?

You guys are killing me. I would so love to BS about TiXN coatings on Fe and Ni alloys. Stop it now.

 

[Alien Traveler]

Let me guess.....anti galling coatings for turbine engine roots (fir-trees)?

No, it was to decrease erosion of blades. But again - it was a long time ago when glow discharge treatment and electron beam evaporation were relatively new processes.

 

[druckle]

From Pedro:

Chromium and nickel came from the coil itself, even when they did not dry-burn the coil. Although we explained in our risk-assessment analysis that the levels found were not a significant health concern, we cannot assure that heat treatment would not increase this concentration. Please refer to this article: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23526962

Please forward this link to Dr. Carvalho:

From Pedro:

Chromium and nickel came from the coil itself, even when they did not dry-burn the coil. Although we explained in our risk-assessment analysis that the levels found were not a significant health concern, we cannot assure that heat treatment would not increase this concentration. Please refer to this article: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23526962

Please forward this link to Dr. Carvalho.

http://www.rsc.org/suppdata/em/c4/c4em00415a/c4em00415a1.pdf

You might suggest that he specifically compare the contents of metallic species in e cigarette vapor and ambient air outside.

 

[druckle]

You guys are killing me. I would so love to BS about TiXN coatings on Fe and Ni alloys. Stop it now.

Nah buddy you have to suffer!!!

 

[druckle]

No, it was to decrease erosion of blades. But again - it was a long time ago when glow discharge treatment and electron beam evaporation were relatively new processes.

OK....that works!

 

[Katya]

I think it is More a case of People do Not Know who to Believe.

One side says Something is Bad. One side says there is Nothing to Worry about.

People ask if e-Liquids can have an Effect on a Coil Material, any type of Coil Material? There aren't any Clear Answers.

People ask How Hot a Coil gets when it is Dry Burned? There doesn't seem to be a Definitive Answer.

People ask What Temperatures are Required for Cr Oxides to convert to Cr(VI) in a specific Alloy? Or if they even Can Form. There isn't any Consensus buy Extreme Temperature. Or Maybe they can but its Not Probable.

I didn't like the Statements that Dr. F made regarding Burn Burning. And I found the Lack of Supporting Documentation Baffling. But I see the Same thing going on with Many of the Questions that are Asked on this Forum.

I think it is Just Forum Life.

That's why scientists test everything. And then test it again. And then let someone else try to reproduce their results. That's how science should work. Just because something should work in theory doesn't mean that it will work in real life applications...

The scientific method.

Neither side is right or wrong until the hypothesis has been thoroughly investigated and tested. And then reproduced by a different team of investigators.

 

[Katya]

Please forward this link to Dr. Carvalho:

Please forward this link to Dr. Carvalho.

http://www.rsc.org/suppdata/em/c4/c4em00415a/c4em00415a1.pdf

You might suggest that he specifically compare the contents of metallic species in e cigarette vapor and ambient air outside.

He's familiar with this study.

And he also wrote this himself:

Metals emitted from e-cigarettes are NOT a reason for health concern

 

[druckle]

I think it is More a case of People do Not Know who to Believe.

One side says Something is Bad. One side says there is Nothing to Worry about.

People ask if e-Liquids can have an Effect on a Coil Material, any type of Coil Material? There aren't any Clear Answers.

People ask How Hot a Coil gets when it is Dry Burned? There doesn't seem to be a Definitive Answer.

People ask What Temperatures are Required for Cr Oxides to convert to Cr(VI) in a specific Alloy? Or if they even Can Form. There isn't any Consensus buy Extreme Temperature. Or Maybe they can but its Not Probable.

I didn't like the Statements that Dr. F made regarding Burn Burning. And I found the Lack of Supporting Documentation Baffling. But I see the Same thing going on with Many of the Questions that are Asked on this Forum.

I think it is Just Forum Life.

I think it is More a case of People do Not Know who to Believe.

One side says Something is Bad. One side says there is Nothing to Worry about.

People ask if e-Liquids can have an Effect on a Coil Material, any type of Coil Material? There aren't any Clear Answers.

People ask How Hot a Coil gets when it is Dry Burned? There doesn't seem to be a Definitive Answer.

People ask What Temperatures are Required for Cr Oxides to convert to Cr(VI) in a specific Alloy? Or if they even Can Form. There isn't any Consensus buy Extreme Temperature. Or Maybe they can but its Not Probable.

I didn't like the Statements that Dr. F made regarding Burn Burning. And I found the Lack of Supporting Documentation Baffling. But I see the Same thing going on with Many of the Questions that are Asked on this Forum.

I think it is Just Forum Life.

It takes personal work to find the truth. Perusing all the available technical literature is a start. Questioning those who make statements then are unwilling to validate their statements with fact is a good step.

I don't know that there is any easy route to the truth. If someone isn't willing to do the work and isn't willing to trust those who have done the work....well I don't know what to say about that.

 

[Alien Traveler]

You guys are killing me. I would so love to BS about TiXN coatings on Fe and Ni alloys. Stop it now.

You are partially right. The idea was that Ti, ionized in 10 kV glow discharge of N, will form TiN. Relatively high voltage was supposed to help in ion implantation. Not my idea - I was an MS at this time.

 

[Coldrake]

This issue actually interests me enormously. Our ejuices are not that innocent--some flavorings, like cinnamon, citrus and banana, for example, are known to crack, fog up and even completely melt polycarbonate tanks. I can provide pictures upon request.

The melting, fogging, cracking tanks are from a chemical reaction between flavorings the polycarbonate, not because they are caustic. That chemical reaction doesn't take place in a human body.

LOL. You have NO idea what that short-lived, misclicked post was referring to.

Absolute nonsense. Nevertheless, you are certainly free to believe whatever you want to believe.

But whatever. It's the interwebs and you can assign any meaning to it that you like. Thanks for your input. I'll be sure to give it the consideration I think it deserves.

I'm sure it will be the same consideration as I believe your posts deserve.

 

[zoiDman]

That's why scientists test everything. And then test it again. And then let someone else try to reproduce their results. That's how science should work. Just because something should work in theory doesn't mean that it will work in real life applications...

The scientific method.

Neither side is right or wrong until the hypothesis has been thoroughly investigated and tested. And then reproduced by a different team of investigators.

Exactly.

And that is why I would like to see More Results from Experimentation. Verses people just Saying that something Should or Shouldn't happen.

Maybe we have Gotten too Close to the FDA Deeming approval. And maybe No One wants to Fund Studies or Experiments anymore on e-Cigarette Hardware and or e-Liquids.

But you would think that there would be a Larger Source of Verified Results for e-Cigarette related Topics by now.

 

[Vwls]

From Pedro:

Comparing the values of metals concentration with outdoor values, IMO, is not the most appropriate choice, because these values will depend on the street that the outdoor sample is collected. I would prefer to compare them with recommended limits in places of work.

 

[Magaro]

Nah buddy you have to suffer!!!

Sorry, I was busy dripping on my Velocity/Smpl rig. What did you say?

 

[zoiDman]

It takes personal work to find the truth. Perusing all the available technical literature is a start. Questioning those who make statements then are unwilling to validate their statements with fact is a good step.

I don't know that there is any easy route to the truth. If someone isn't willing to do the work and isn't willing to trust those who have done the work....well I don't know what to say about that.

I think this is Rule #1 of Internet Forums.

---

I'm willing to do the Work. My Problem is Finding Relevant Date with regards to e-Cigarettes and e-Liquids. And seeing that there is No Baseline as to What an e-Liquid is, it Doesn't make things any Easier.

BTW - I see you were Bitten by the Double Post Quote Bug also. I think we all have been hit lately.

LOL

 

[Magaro]

Nah buddy you have to suffer!!!

It takes personal work to find the truth. Perusing all the available technical literature is a start. Questioning those who make statements then are unwilling to validate their statements with fact is a good step.

I don't know that there is any easy route to the truth. If someone isn't willing to do the work and isn't willing to trust those who have done the work....well I don't know what to say about that.

I think I know what to say. But I will keep it to myself to avoid inflaming this discussion any further.

 

[Katya]

The melting, fogging, cracking tanks are from a chemical reaction between flavorings the polycarbonate, not because they are caustic. That chemical reaction doesn't take place in a human body.

I think you misunderstood my question.

I was asking whether some of those chemicals in our tank-cracking juices might react with the aluminum oxide at vaping temperatures perhaps causing decomposition or degradation of the oxide. Nobody has tested that--to my knowledge.

ETA: Cinnamaldehyde has been long known to be a lung and mucus membrane irritant. I can't vape anything with cinnamon flavoring; apparently I'm very sensitive to cinnamaldehyde. I get blisters...