the end of vapeing as we know it??

[Myk]

They could easily make it impossible to get nicotine. And from what I have read, very few would be willing or able to extract nicotine from tobacco leaves.

Anyone is able to do a simple extraction. It's water soluble. Nicotine tea is an old (unrecommended) "organic" gardening home remedy.

Again, you are kidding yourself if you think the US government could not prevent anyone from getting nicotine. You appear to have not been around in 2009 when hundreds of thousands of dollars in vaping supplies were confiscated in the mail by the FDA. And they were not even trying hard back then. And no one got their money back.

They're going to ban patches and gum completely across the board not only as NRT but treatment for Ulcerative Colitis, Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, plus some psychological issues? They really can't do that while allowing smoked tobacco to remain legal and save any face. (Not that I think anyone in any of the world's governments are too worried about letting their corporate ownership out of the closet lately.)
They'd also have to make pesticides illegal or else someone is going to package up some "nicotine pesticide in 24mg strength". Then we would probably start seeing some deaths from confused people who went out and got actual pesticide.

I remember those days. You fail to mention how many shipments did get through during that time and the ones that were released.
I don't recall any user going without because of a seizure.

 

[retired1]

They'd also have to make pesticides illegal or else someone is going to package up some "nicotine pesticide in 24mg strength".

That's coming. Recent studies have linked nicotine sulfate insecticides with honey bee colony deaths. Petitions have been sent to the EPA to ban all nicotine based insecticides in the US.

 

[Myk]

That's coming. Recent studies have linked nicotine sulfate insecticides with honey bee colony deaths. Petitions have been sent to the EPA to ban all nicotine based insecticides in the US.

Doesn't surprise me, but what hasn't been linked to CCD?
I've actually heard more linking neonicotinoids, pyrethroids and systemics than natural nicotine. Synthetics last, nicotine doesn't. Less water and earth contamination because they're sprayed less but more difficult to apply targeted applications.
They're going to ban everything trying to please everyone sending petitions about what everyone else is doing and we're all going to die.

 

[Penn]

That's coming. Recent studies have linked nicotine sulfate insecticides with honey bee colony deaths. Petitions have been sent to the EPA to ban all nicotine based insecticides in the US.

I'm familiar with pesticides used by professionals. Nicotine sulfate has a signal word of "danger". All chemicals (except fumigation pesticides) used in the industry are labeled caution. The only maker still using nicotine sulfate, if I remember correct, decided to remove it from the EPA registered numbers. So no, it isn't being banned, just voluntarily ended. That is probably because no one uses it anymore. If it is due to pressure I haven't heard about it.

 

[Robino1]

I only got offended about being restricted with smoking at out-door venues. I completely understood enclosed areas, but was annoyed about being in my own car, that I paid the payment on, but was told I couldn't smoke at work in it? I always tried to be respectful that others might be bothered by my smoking, so I tried to be compliant.

I haven't had a whole lot of experience with vaping outside. I have not tried it in a restaurant, grocery store, Walmart (although anything goes there right?). But I do know this, I have not smoked a single cigarette since April 10, 2013 and that is a success that has lasted longer than chantix, cold turkey and being pregnant .

I need to be informed, educated, and helpful...I have just joined the CASAA after reading your post

Thanks That makes me happy that something I've said made a difference to even one person!

I am not sure what to really do 90% of the time besides write testimonials to CASAA when they ask, other than rant on here with the rest of ya

I agree with everything your saying, but give some examples to further fight this, because IDK any & wanna contribute

& I'm ...... off ATM, I can never get pluid in my country again atm

Even though you don't live in the United States, when you see a call to action, write to the email addresses that are provided when you click the link. When our politicians see that this IS a world wide effort, I hope it does make a difference. A lot of times, other countries follow what the US does. When vaping becomes an acceptable practice here, it will help push other countries to follow suit. Yes I said when, I am optimistic.

If the FDA was smart, this is what they'd truly do -
Realize tobacco use will never be eliminated
Stop the tobacco companies from putting all the crap they put in cigarettes, dip, etc.

Tobacco (especially burning tobacco) isn't good for you by any means. If it was pure tobacco without the additives and fillers, it wouldn't be anywhere nearly as bad. Due to most of the additives, if cigarettes were ....... 20 years ago, they're crack ....... today.

They should also ban all the crap that the food industry feeds us. They're one step above big tobacco IMO.

They'd do those things if they weren't a worthless shell of an organization. Our tax dollars at work protecting us.

Edit: Somehow the white power drug that people commonly snort's name was censored from my post. Censorship sucks! Context, anyone?

What they 'should' do and what they 'actually' do are mostly two different things.

As for the drug reference, yes, ECF filters out those. They don't want the ANTZ to even come close to finding those references in this forum. The forum is thought of as a family friendly forum without all the BS that happens on other forums. I think it works too. I've not come across any other forum that is as active and as large as this one.

 

[mad maori]

Vaping in NZ is fine under current legislation,except for the problem of getting newbies comfortable with importing and mixing.

What happens in the US,Europe matters cause our politicians will do what the Yanks tell them to,eg all our illegal substance policies are straight from the Regan era.

I plan on visiting every MP I can get to and telling my story once I'm confident with my speil.

Hone and Turi want us smokefree by 2025,is not vaping about the only way that can be achieved?

How involved are you on the Marae?Thats always struck me as a great way to spread the word.

re nz.. i have spoken to turi about vapeing, she's on the fence about it but may be more supportive than most.. Hone thinks its pretty cool but he is really on the outside of parliment ... i see him a lot at work and will have more chats about this issue for sure...

 

[unclestu]

I would love to get a copy of your handbook.
Stu

I wrote the Vaper's Handbook in order to teach people how to make their own juice and atomizers so they never have to fear a hostile takeover. Knowledge is power. They will never ban the parts, chemicals, and batteries needed to vape. You can't uninvent something. Once the knowledge exists it can never be stopped. Teach yourself and you will never be afraid again, no matter what happens to the industry.

 

[Hotwire]

The most realistic scenario to happen will be:

Big tobacco will corner the market
Vapes will be taxed as cigarettes/cigars, chew, etc
Online sales will be banned, or sellers will have to charge your locale's tax

There's too much money to be made by some and lost by others. The "some" and "others" are big tobacco and Uncle Sam, in any order.

Sadly true.

 

[Hotwire]

Property is Theft.

No Gods, No Masters.

The revolution is not a dinner party.

It's just nature. Every creature on earth or group of creatures mark and maintain and fight for territory, watering holes and food supplies - so in essence property.

you cannot suppress nature. Anarchy would result in hierarchies again eventually.

 

[Hotwire]

Again, you are kidding yourself if you think the US government could not prevent anyone from getting nicotine. You appear to have not been around in 2009 when hundreds of thousands of dollars in vaping supplies were confiscated in the mail by the FDA. And they were not even trying hard back then. And no one got their money back.

Again, sad but realist and true.

Tobacco (especially burning tobacco) isn't good for you by any means. If it was pure tobacco without the additives and fillers, it wouldn't be anywhere nearly as bad. Due to most of the additives, if cigarettes were ....... 20 years ago, they're crack ....... today.

NOPE, way before then when smoking appeared in the western world there was an immediate outbreak of cancers in numbers that shocked the medical world, back then lung cancers and the like were EXTREMELY RARE and even the original unadulterated tobacco caused these diseases.

And BT were still allowed to have athletes endorse there products and say they helped their performances and stuff....

 

[Butters78]

 

[kiwivap]

yea its classed as a medicine here too,

No, its not classed as a medicine here. It is illegal to sell nicotine within NZ, but legal to import it for personal use.

 

[wv2win]

Anyone is able to do a simple extraction. It's water soluble. Nicotine tea is an old (unrecommended) "organic" gardening home remedy.




They're going to ban patches and gum completely across the board not only as NRT but treatment for Ulcerative Colitis, Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, plus some psychological issues? They really can't do that while allowing smoked tobacco to remain legal and save any face. (Not that I think anyone in any of the world's governments are too worried about letting their corporate ownership out of the closet lately.)
They'd also have to make pesticides illegal or else someone is going to package up some "nicotine pesticide in 24mg strength". Then we would probably start seeing some deaths from confused people who went out and got actual pesticide.

I remember those days. You fail to mention how many shipments did get through during that time and the ones that were released.
I don't recall any user going without because of a seizure.

First, your comparison to patches and gum is a "straw man" arguement and you should be smart enough to know that. They will not ban any current NRT products for the obvious reasons as they are in low 2mg & 4mg levels that cannot be used easily for any other purpose. (it's really idiotic that I have to point out that obvious fact to you) But that is a far different stituation than nicotine in bottles for vaping, which will be banned and easily kept out of the hands of the average consumer, as they are in much higher strengths and are not provided by pharmaceutical companies after being studied for 20 years. And that is all the "justification" they need and could care less with how it looks or saving face.

Second, no pesticide company would jeopardize their business by selling diluted bug killer as something you can vape. And if you are suggesting that the average consumer try to somehow do that themselves, then you are just nuts.

Third, I had packages confiscated in 2009-10 and two supplier friends of mine also had their shipments confiscated. I lost $102. My two friends each lost over $10,000 when their shipments were confiscated. And as I stated, the FDA wasn't even trying hard back then. If they really wanted to shut down the ability to buy nicotine eliquid, they could easily do it.

Fourth, if you think all of us who vape will resort to extracting nicotine from tobacco (which is not an easy task for the average consumer regardless of your comment), then you are inhaling something other than eliquid.

 

[wv2win]

Somehow, believe it or not, government has a way of leaving loopholes in their laws. As much as cars are regulated in safety, emissions, etc., if you manufacture under a certain number of cars per time period, you're exempt. Very small businesses (relatively speaking) get some exemptions that large corporations don't get. That can be interpreted as protecting the little guy.

But let's just say all the doomsday neigh-sayers end up being right in the end and all forms of nicotine are completely banned for anyone other than people making Blu cig alike type stuff. Ever think of quitting? It's not like nicotine is some healthy wonder-drug. I'd rather keep my money than vape it, but that's just me. I don't plan on vaping the rest of my life.

Then again, I didn't plan on smoking for 20 years, so maybe I should rethink that one.

The last line is the only part of your post that makes sense to me.

 

[Hotwire]

Fourth, if you think all of us who vape will resort to extracting nicotine from tobacco (which is not an easy task for the average consumer regardless of your comment), then you are inhaling something other than eliquid.

It's true fro a lot of us probably. Hate to admit this, but if they ban flavored juices and egos / mods etc outright - and only give us some bland flavorless product (I DON'T THINK THEY WILL, BUT JUST FOR ARGUMENT'S SAKE) unless I can get them black market (like from a drug dealer I guess) at a price not too much higher than fags - I'm going back to the fags and that sucks but is true.

 

[wv2win]

It's true fro a lot of us probably. Hate to admit this, but if they ban flavored juices and egos / mods etc outright - and only give us some bland flavorless product (I DON'T THINK THEY WILL, BUT JUST FOR ARGUMENT'S SAKE) unless I can get them black market (like from a drug dealer I guess) at a price not too much higher than fags - I'm going back to the fags and that sucks but is true.

You are not alone in that conclusion. The vast majority of vapers will have no options but bad ones. And they won't bother with the hardware to vape with. All they have to control is how nicotine is provided to the average consumer.

 

[trailblazer6]

FDA can't apply the UK model and regulate e-cigs as a medicine. They tried, but were sued by Soretta (NJOY manufacturer). FDA had tried to regulate using the Food Drug and Cosmetic Act, which they use to regulate nicotine patches, gum and drugs like Chantix. The court found that the e-cig manufacturers weren't marketing them as smoking cessation (i.e., therapeutic) products and that they therefore fell under the authority Congress granted in the Tobacco Act, after a landmark US Supreme Court decision called FDA vs Brown & Williamson. The ruling and injunction forbidding EPA to regulate e-cigs as medicinal compounds or devices was upheld by the appellate court and FDA chose not to appeal to SCOTUS.

However, it is unlikely that Congress and FDA won't eventually find some way to regulate e-cig products. After all, nicotine is an addictive substance, but it is still legal to grow, process, manufacture and sell tobacco products in the US. That is likely never going to change, so e-cigs and associated products aren't ever likely going to be banned, either.

There may be rules against sales to minors (which I support). There may be interim rules by state and local governments to make vaping in public places illegal (which I do not support). There may be federally recommended standards for quality control during the manufacture of the liquid and the devices used to vaporize them (hmmm). But an outright ban isn't gonna happen. It's infeasible.

Well said. Besides, our numbers are growing every day. BT is losing there customer base so seeing them get into the PV market is not surpising. We don't have to buy there crap. We are the market

 

[wv2win]

FDA can't apply the UK model and regulate e-cigs as a medicine. They tried, but were sued by Soretta (NJOY manufacturer). FDA had tried to regulate using the Food Drug and Cosmetic Act, which they use to regulate nicotine patches, gum and drugs like Chantix. The court found that the e-cig manufacturers weren't marketing them as smoking cessation (i.e., therapeutic) products and that they therefore fell under the authority Congress granted in the Tobacco Act, after a landmark US Supreme Court decision called FDA vs Brown & Williamson. The ruling and injunction forbidding EPA to regulate e-cigs as medicinal compounds or devices was upheld by the appellate court and FDA chose not to appeal to SCOTUS.

However, it is unlikely that Congress and FDA won't eventually find some way to regulate e-cig products. After all, nicotine is an addictive substance, but it is still legal to grow, process, manufacture and sell tobacco products in the US. That is likely never going to change, so e-cigs and associated products aren't ever likely going to be banned, either.

There may be rules against sales to minors (which I support). There may be interim rules by state and local governments to make vaping in public places illegal (which I do not support). There may be federally recommended standards for quality control during the manufacture of the liquid and the devices used to vaporize them (hmmm). But an outright ban isn't gonna happen. It's infeasible.

All they have to do is mandate "out of safety for the children" that eliquid can only be sold in approved, sealed "proprietary" cartridges and vaping as we know it is dead and becomes much more ineffective.

 

[trailblazer6]

All they have to do is mandate "out of safety for the children" that eliquid can only be sold in approved, sealed "proprietary" cartridges and vaping as we know it is dead and becomes much more ineffective.

This is highly unlikely as this course of action would open the floodgates to a black market.I suspect the FDA will adopt AEMSA recommendationsns for eliquids and as for proprietary cartridges you don't have to buy them. China alone will see to that.Besides, our government is only concerneded with one thing. How to tax. They want there cut because the revenue from the tobacco tax is drying up. So vaping as we know it is not going to end. Just the relatively low to no tax status.

 

[Myk]

First, your comparison to patches and gum is a "straw man" arguement and you should be smart enough to know that. They will not ban any current NRT products for the obvious reasons as they are in low 2mg & 4mg levels that cannot be used easily for any other purpose. (it's really idiotic that I have to point out that obvious fact to you) But that is a far different stituation than nicotine in bottles for vaping, which will be banned and easily kept out of the hands of the average consumer, as they are in much higher strengths and are not provided by pharmaceutical companies after being studied for 20 years. And that is all the "justification" they need and could care less with how it looks or saving face.

Second, no pesticide company would jeopardize their business by selling diluted bug killer as something you can vape. And if you are suggesting that the average consumer try to somehow do that themselves, then you are just nuts.

Third, I had packages confiscated in 2009-10 and two supplier friends of mine also had their shipments confiscated. I lost $102. My two friends each lost over $10,000 when their shipments were confiscated. And as I stated, the FDA wasn't even trying hard back then. If they really wanted to shut down the ability to buy nicotine eliquid, they could easily do it.

Fourth, if you think all of us who vape will resort to extracting nicotine from tobacco (which is not an easy task for the average consumer regardless of your comment), then you are inhaling something other than eliquid.

1) No, it's not a strawman. It's my own personal situation. For anything short of a complete ban I can get nicotine. I may not be vaping nicotine but I can get nicotine.
The real strawman is calling something a "ban" when you're obviously not talking about a "ban" so that you can argue something other than a "ban" whenever someone argues against your claim.
Any purpose specific "ban" is doomed to fail because it leaves the product out there to be re-purposed as we have seen with allergy medicine.
Leaving ecigs open for "BigT" to make means anyone can get e-liquid, that's just the way the world works.

2) The real strawman is claiming I said "pesticide company" when that strawman was created by you to tear down. Dow won't be making 24mg bug spray but Joe's Organic Vape Fruit shop would.
So you think soaking tobacco in water is too dangerous while sticking that same tobacco in your mouth and chewing it is obviously not? What do you think the difference is?
You are not creating nicotine sulfate when you make tobacco tea. You wouldn't know the strength but test kits are way more available and cheaper than the scared sheep want you to believe. You need to get some knowledge.

3) And people had plenty of shipments get through and some had shipments released. The same as happens in any country that is hostile towards ecigs yet people still get nicotine e-liquids.
I recall some companies being run dry but I never recall any person unable to buy what they needed. But you don't want to admit the whole story because it doesn't suit your fear mongering.

4) Resorting to attacks on the person rather than the argument show that you know you are wrong. "Average" may not but only because the average person is scared of their shadow and want Big Brother to take care of them.
How successful has the "War on D_____" been? In the event of that type of all out ban, if you're afraid to do it for yourself then you can pay a premium or you can be a good little lamb and quit.

All they have to do is mandate "out of safety for the children" that eliquid can only be sold in approved, sealed "proprietary" cartridges and vaping as we know it is dead and becomes much more ineffective.

Maybe it's time the sheep learn that whenever someone uses "the safety of our children" as an excuse it is generally a scam to remove freedom to the detriment of everyone.

As I said somewhere (I think in this thread);
I take an airbrush, put an atty where the paint goes in, replace the handle with a battery and sell 30ml "cartridges" to fit on my "Vapebrush". But people could sell "cartridges" for bottom feeder box mods.

Every law you can imagine has a loophole, short of a complete ban, and even then a complete ban would be as effective as Prohibition. Some would get turned over to the black market, some would DIY, just like during Prohibition.