The FDA has 'won'

[Webby]

I'm so tired of this FDA crap!
cigarettes are not FDA approved, they have the Surgeon General's on the box!
FDA was probably bought by the tobaco industry to create all this fuz!

Here is an article on the subject:
"Prominent Public Health Physicians and tobacco Researchers Expose Double Standard in the FDA’s Recent Study of Electronic Cigarettes and Challenge the FDA’s Alarmist Attitude Toward the devices
BOSTON, July 27 — The FDA recently went public with misleading information ....."

Great rebuttal - where is is posted so I can give credit when my resellers want to see it? I'd like to provide it in our collateral pieces to the tobacco outlets.

 

[HighTech]

Great rebuttal - where is is posted so I can give credit when my resellers want to see it? I'd like to provide it in our collateral pieces to the tobacco outlets.

Prominent Public Health Physicians and Tobacco Researchers Expose Double Standard in the FDA's Recent Study of Electronic Cigarettes and Challenge the FDA's Alarmist Attitude Toward the Devices

 

[RandallFlagg]

If many people start vaping and quiting analogs, the FDA will foresurely switch over to approving vaporizers, of course with the gov taxing.

Rob

They reported on the eliquids alone. They said nothing about the vaporizers or devices as any kind of hazard. Thus, they've been approved.

 

[eric]

They reported on the eliquids alone. They said nothing about the vaporizers or devices as any kind of hazard. Thus, they've been approved.

That's simply not true.

The shipment I've just had seized contained NO liquid at all whatsoever. All carts are empty.

 

[trog100]

a bottle of beer is a drug delivery system so is a tub of artificial sweeteners or a coffee percolator..

the key word here is "new".. we all demand safe over the counter drugs and food.. part of the FDAs job is to make sure we get them..

making sure we get them means "testing" before we get them... so far all the FDA are doing is casting doubt on an as yet untested (by our standards) product... they are saying they aint sure they are safe..

we cant have it all ways.. it seems some of us think we can..

the best we can hope for in any country is that these dudes who we appoint to look after us are busy doing something else and our e cigs get left alone..

coming economic problems will help in this respect (giving them something else to worry about) nothing much else will...

trog

ps... as regards scary headlines how about most e cigs we tested contain a deadly poison.. nicotine.. the lethal dose to an adult is 64 mg...

these dudes are being mild.. so is their warning..

 

[RandallFlagg]

That's simply not true.

The shipment I've just had seized contained NO liquid at all whatsoever. All carts are empty.

And you need to go after them as it's a violation of your fifth amendment.

• Fifth Amendment – due process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, eminent domain.

No person shall be held to answer for any capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

 

[warsphinx]

Great rebuttal - where is is posted so I can give credit when my resellers want to see it? I'd like to provide it in our collateral pieces to the tobacco outlets.

I found it again here is the website I found. You can also find the article at the ECA website.

Oh well I cannot post url yet so, just google this:
"Prominent Public Health Physicians"

 

[warsphinx]

.ecassoc.org/response-to-the-fda/prominent-public-health-physicians-and-tobacco-researchers-expose-double-standard-in-the-fda%E2%80%99s-recent-study-of-electronic-cigarettes-and-challenge-the-fda%E2%80%99s-alarmist-attitude-toward-th/

here we go it worked I found the article.
just take the "." from the beggining of the URL.

 

[Shan123]

While I agree that the comparison is questionable given the FDA's lack of authority to ban traditional cigarettes, I don't think we should stop making it. Why? Because the FDA doesn't hold back their rhetoric. Why should we?

Because in an argument, it's always better to be able to demonstrate that your logic is consistently trustworthy, and your opponent's is not. Gives your side more credibility, which in a perfect world would be important.

But then I have a history of being surprised and infuriated when hyperbole and hysteria win out over logical argument. Sigh, I'm in my 50s, you'd think I'd have learned to at least ditch the surprise... People these days seem to want to have the bejeezus scared out of them, rather than grasp facts. So maybe you're right.

But I still prefer to argue with a few well-aimed darts rather than throwing kitchen sinks. My goal is to destroy our opponents' credibility, and their shoddy appeals to emotionalism and fear, with indisputable facts and by addressing fear/emotional issues in ways that make sense. If I'm sending a letter to some official and I include that "FDA doesn't ban cigarettes" argument, that official is going to conclude I don't know what I'm talking about.

ASH plans to lobby all the states' attorneys general to ban the sale of PVs. I think our state officials need to hear from their constituents, and they need to see that we KNOW what we're talking about, unlike ASH or anyone who hasn't viewed vaping with an unprejudiced eye.

 

[BigJimW]

The ECF is making records right now for new members.

If anything the FDA just did a whole lotta advertising to get people searching.

Maybe in our wildest dreams,
FDA is trying to win this by getting more people involved,
more liquid evolved, and the healthy addictions solved.

If many people start vaping and quiting analogs, the FDA will foresurely switch over to approving vaporizers, of course with the gov taxing.

Rob

I tend to agree with this comment. The very night NBC ran their report on national TV on the toxins "found" in electronic cigarettes, this place litterally exploded with guests and new members. The very fact that they splattered e-cigs on all national news made it very exposed. Anybosy with half a brain can see right through the FDA plan.

In fact, don't underestimate this place to bring out the news to the people. As more people seek answers, they will eventually find this place. You have a big audiance in attendance.

 

[Nestran]

I tend to agree with this comment. The very night NBC ran their report on national TV on the toxins "found" in electronic cigarettes, this place litterally exploded with guests and new members. The very fact that they splattered e-cigs on all national news made it very exposed. Anybosy with half a brain can see right through the FDA plan.

In fact, don't underestimate this place to bring out the news to the people. As more people seek answers, they will eventually find this place. You have a big audiance in attendance.

I though the same thing, the news gives the exposure and this site comes up right on top for the google hits

I do get worried about the youtube videos though. Having been a smoker, I understand the "Ahh" feeling but a never smoker is really not going to get the right impression from those videos. I am an ex smoker and they kinda freaked me out at first. I think it's because I am not used to seeing someone promote "smoking". The damn vapor, which is crutial in my mind, is the flag for the non smoker to go "Oh my! They are drug addicts!"

If there was no vapor there would be a lot less hub bub.

Nestran

 

[jimvinny]

I though the same thing, the news gives the exposure and this site comes up right on top for the google hits

I do get worried about the youtube videos though. Having been a smoker, I understand the "Ahh" feeling but a never smoker is really not going to get the right impression from those videos. I am an ex smoker and they kinda freaked me out at first. I think it's because I am not used to seeing someone promote "smoking". The damn vapor, which is crutial in my mind, is the flag for the non smoker to go "Oh my! They are drug addicts!"

If there was no vapor there would be a lot less hub bub.

Nestran

Some may disagree, but personally, I find that the Vapor is what makes it a viable alternative to smoking. The psychological impact of seeing the vapor upon exhale is part of what makes me feel like I am smoking. And I am a firm backer of the theory that most of the addiction to smoking is psychological, rather than pharmacological.

 

[cloudsurfer45]

They have made a lot of drugs illegal but people still get them, here is how i see it, The government cannot censor internet traffic (although it can try) so i really don't think they will be able to block shipments of these if ordered online. My friends dad bought Cuban cigars online (which are through technicality illegal) and I also know one person who bought a switchblade online(federal law banning those here in the US) and those have all slipped through the cracks even if they say we can't have them I have a strong feeling we will still be able to get them. I hope this gets resolved so we don't have to go underground for our vaping needs, im ok with resonable regulation (age limits, childproof bottles for eliquid, etc.) but an out right ban would be very premature at this point in time. No one to my knowledge has died from an e-cig and the body count on tobacco is well into the hundreds of million by now im sure so the odds are in our favor so i guess we can just hope for the best. I did e-mail my senator and congressman about this issue and when I get that response back i will post it here.

 

[johnwb1]

Caffeine, like nicotine, has pharmacological effects. Perhaps someone from the ECA should go the Washington D.C. and argue that if the if the FDA is to ban e-cig devices because they are a drug/delivery system, then coffee, water, and coffee cups must also be banned!

 

[techtravis]

If I had a dollar for everytime someone on this forum said it was over..... well I wouldn't need to sell E-cigs

 

[nojoyet]

Some may disagree, but personally, I find that the Vapor is what makes it a viable alternative to smoking. The psychological impact of seeing the vapor upon exhale is part of what makes me feel like I am smoking. And I am a firm backer of the theory that most of the addiction to smoking is psychological, rather than pharmacological.

Seeing the vapor is huge for me also. I like the glowing ember too, especially when it is too dark to see the vapor..

At the same time I think it would be helpful, for discreet use, if cartridges were available in a no vapor option.

 

[DC2]

The FDA has won the battle, but the outcome of the war is still in doubt.
And the intelligence of many on this forum sometimes gives me hope.

We need a spotlight to shine on our issue.
A fair and balanced spotlight.

Maybe I should rent one of those Batman type searchlight thingies.
And maybe one of those air blown tube dudes.
And offer free cookies and lemonade.

I don't think that will get Mike Wallace to stop by though.


Until I figure it out, I'm just doing it one person at a time.
One well placed reply at a time.
One letter at a time.

 

[span]

Fight fire with fire. We need to get REAL information out there, in the public eye.
If anyone is willing to type up a letter/flyer giving basic information on the e-cig, to inform a public that is otherwise going to be misinformed by the FDA and media.. I'd be willing to print off and distribute them. And I'm sure we'll have plenty of people willing to do that as well. Hell, I might even write one when I'm done wandering florida....
It would have to be professional, non-confrontational, and have links and quotes from reliable sources (lab reports, doctors, etc). Letters would be sent to local representatives, local news stations, etc.. Flyers posted on community boards (many local restaurants, apartment complexes, etc have boards for exactly that purpose), at local AA meetings... If anyone could convince a doctors office to allow them to post one, or at least possibly offer to their patients, that would be fairly effective as well ...
Disseminating positive, reliable information is the only way we can fight the FDA and it's ridiculous misuse of its power...
Just remember, every single drug that Heath Ledger od'ed on were FDA approved. The FDA is not the alpha and omega of everything we put in our bodies; unless we let them. The FDA is made up of politicians who will spin much of the information they get in order to mislead us into doing their bidding. The FDA, and the rest of the government is not concerned about our health, or well-being, they're concerned about the bottom line- money. We have to make them care.
I've searched the board forever for the post on testing of pg... It mentioned testing in an orphans asylum. Anyone know where that might be? It was a compelling post and would be pretty useful to anyone attempting to write a flyer.

 

[Ziggy]

Hi Span.

I just read about this last night. Don't know if it's the same story but it sounds very similar (New Zealand health report into Ruyan products)
Oops, I haven't posted enough to give you a URL apparently. Pop into google and paste this...
RuyanCartridgeReport30-Oct-08.pdf



Here's the piece I'm thinking of, it's on page 5...

Inhalational safety in children. In a series of experiments to control airborne infections, over 105 children were subjected to bactericidal concentrations of propylene glycol in the wards of a children’s convalescent home in experiments conducted over 3 years.​

Method. Six wards of the Children’s Seashore House in Atlanta containing 105 bedfast children aged 3 to 15 years were divided into 3 control and 3 undergoing vaporization for 3 week periods with 2 to 3 days between, before the control wards become vaporized, and the vaporized wards became controls. This rotation continued for 7 months. The PG was
heated to vaporize it, but not above 80 degrees C, and vaporization continuously maintained a concentration of 0.069 mg per liter. (0.07 ppm)​

Results. No ill effects were reported. In the first year, 100 infections occurred in control wards without PG, and 5 in wards with PG vaporization, with rates of 0.18 per week and 0.09 per week respectively. Most of the upper respiratory infections in control wards were common colds, suggesting the PG is also virucidal.​

Brent​

​

 

[mkscr]

This is an excerpt from US News.com from today: Totally green smoking is too good to be true. Turns out, the electronic smokes - which are marketed on several websites as healthier than real cigarettes - can be as harmful as traditional kind. According to an FDA press release

and from Qatar an article stating Saudi Arabia is banning e-cigs...

E-cigarettes”, which sell for around SR500, are manufactured in China to be marketed globally, mainly in Europe.

Upon testing it was found that the “e-cigarette” harms human health far more than the normal cigarette and it contains 40 times as much nicotine as a regular cigarette.

Where is this "information" coming from?!