The Final Count Down -- Are You Ready?

[BigPappa]

Ugggh:
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

EDIT: Ignore the text on that link. lol The link goes to an article saying that the vape tax plan passed the house committee and is now going to the house.

 

[Opinionated]

So I diy, but assume for a minute that I didn't, to get an idea of what a juice buyer might expect. Tell me if I'm missing a decimal or something, but to get to what effect it would be on someone buying store bought juice, vaping at my levels.

I vape 2ml/day at about 14mg (I know, it's relatively low) so a liter of 100mg should last me near 10 years.
$2780 divided by 10 would be $278 per year. Divided by 52 weeks, that'd be $5.34 tax per week on my supply of juice, right?

for you it would be about that.. but if your looking at a non DIY-er and what they could expect:

0.027807 / milligram rounds to .03 cents/mg..

in a 60ml bottle of 6mg juice there are 360 mg of nicotine.

360 × .03 = $10.80 a 60ml bottle of 6mg ejuice in federal tax..

Looking on eightvape they have a 100ml bottle of ejuice (Beard Vape Co. The One) on sale right now for 11.88 (regular price 19.99), the tax increases the price by 18.00 if you buy the 6mg juice, making the new sale price $29.88 for a 6mg bottle..

That's what buyers of juice can expect.. it will double the price if not more and that's if the states don't follow suit.

 

[Rossum]

With the result being the only people who will still be vaping nicotine are those DIY people who stocked up on nicotine beforehand.

Let's look at this from the perspective of the retail customer (and pretend the Deeming isn't gonna do away with retail bottled juice):

A 30 ml bottle of 3 mg will have a $2.50 tax.
A 30 ml bottle of 6 mg will have a $5.00 tax.
A single Juul pod will have a $1.15 tax.

This is not the end of the world as far as those customers are concerned.

 

[BigPappa]

Let's look at this from the perspective of the retail customer (and pretend the Deeming isn't gonna do away with retail bottled juice):

A 30 ml bottle of 3 mg will have a $2.50 tax.
A 30 ml bottle of 6 mg will have a $5.00 tax.
A single Juul pod will have a $1.15 tax.

This is not the end of the world as far as those customers are concerned.

But then you need to add state tax to that for the states that do not already have it because you know they are goinng to jump on that bandwagon for sure. And add all that to the cost of the disposable, non-refillable, garbage that will be sold post May 2020.

 

[Letitia]

Let's look at this from the perspective of the retail customer (and pretend the Deeming isn't gonna do away with retail bottled juice):

A 30 ml bottle of 3 mg will have a $2.50 tax.
A 30 ml bottle of 6 mg will have a $5.00 tax.
A single Juul pod will have a $1.15 tax.

This is not the end of the world as far as those customers are concerned.

Still that's an added expense, potential vapers will probably not bother to do the math and just keep smoking thinking vaping is just as expensive. Since our gear is considered a tobacco product the tax can probably be applied to that as well.

 

[Rossum]

That's what buyers of juice can expect.. it will double the price

Double the price of inexpensive juice, yes. But inexpensive juice is much cheaper than smoking, and likely remains cheaper than smoking even if the price doubles or triples.

I used to spend ~$90 a week on cigs. At $0.0278 cents per miligram, the federal nicotine tax would cost me ~$13.00 a week. Even if it were $50 a week (after states jump in with their own version) it would still not make economic sense to revert to smoking.

 

[Rossum]

Still that's an added expense, potential vapers will probably not bother to do the math and just keep smoking thinking vaping is just as expensive.

Yes, it would pretty much kill the "you'll save a lot of money by switching to vaping" argument.

Since our gear is considered a tobacco product the tax can probably be applied to that as well.

From what I've read, this is pretty explicitly a tax on nicotine.

 

[Letitia]

Opens the door to pile on sin taxes though. Some states already are.

 

[Opinionated]

Double the price of inexpensive juice, yes. But inexpensive juice is much cheaper than smoking, and likely remains cheaper than smoking even if the price doubles or triples.

I used to spend ~$90 a week on cigs. At $0.0278 cents per miligram, the federal nicotine tax would cost me ~$13.00 a week. Even if it were $50 a week (after states jump in with their own version) it would still not make economic sense to revert to smoking.

It's doable, until you add state and city taxes as well - whatever those end up at..

It still may end up cheaper than smoking I don't know, but will bulk liquid be available after deeming or will it all be closed system pods? Those are already high priced in comparison to bulk..

 

[Myrany]

Yes, it would pretty much kill the "you'll save a lot of money by switching to vaping" argument.


From what I've read, this is pretty explicitly a tax on nicotine.

I am going to play devil's advocate here (No I do not in actuality like the tax)


Vaping getting taxed hard might in the end be a saving grace for the industry. The powers that be would have less incentive to stomp us out if they were making money on us.

 

[DeloresRose]

Not really. Pods do have a following and black market juice will be readily available. You don't honestly think the shop owners are going to toss out all their juices do you? I predict private clubs will form in some areas much like they do in dry counties.

I’ll know it’s one of you guys if you knock on my door like “shave and a haircut, two bits!”

 

[Rossum]

Vaping getting taxed hard might in the end be a saving grace for the industry. The powers that be would have less incentive to stomp us out if they were making money on us.

Yes, some people (looking at you, @zoiDman) have had that theory for many years; that once it's taxed at something close to parity with cigs, the government and the media will declare a cease-fire in the War on Vaping.

 

[kas122461]

If I understand this correctly, they are going to tax the 100 mg/ml Nicotine that I buy from say Wizard labs, is that correct?

KAS

 

[Rossum]

I don't know, but will bulk liquid be available after deeming or will it all be closed system pods? Those are already high priced in comparison to bulk..

Yes, relatively speaking, they certainly are.

 

[Doffy]

200 days.

 

[Rossum]

If I understand this correctly, they are going to tax the 100 mg/ml Nicotine that I buy from say Wizard labs, is that correct?

That's the way I understand it too.

By the milligram, to the tune for $2780 / liter of 100 mg.

Now put that in perspective. A liter lasts me four years. So that works out to ~$13 per week.

But why pay it if you don't have to?

It will be dang difficult to tax something that you already own.

 

[zoiDman]

Yes, some people (looking at you, @zoiDman) have had that theory for many years; that once it's taxed at something close to parity with cigs, the government and the media will declare a cease-fire in the War on Vaping.

Yeah... I remember the Flaming I got when I 1st posted that here on the ECF. I believed it to be True then. As I Believe it (more) now.

And do have to Smiled every time someone says... "It's All about Money".

 

[kas122461]

That's the way I understand it too.

By the milligram, to the tune for $2780 / liter of 100 mg.

Now put that in perspective. A liter lasts me four years. So that works out to ~$13 per week.

But why pay it if you don't have to?

It will be dang difficult to tax something that you already own.

I have been planning on getting another liter or 2 before next May, but this is now making me want to order it sooner. I know I am just being paranoid, I am 57 and have around 30 years worth in the freezer. I think I will just go ahead and order another liter next week, that really was not part of my budget, oh well more beans and rice for me next month.

KAS

 

[mikepetro]

That's the way I understand it too.

By the milligram, to the tune for $2780 / liter of 100 mg.

Now put that in perspective. A liter lasts me four years. So that works out to ~$13 per week.

But why pay it if you don't have to?

It will be dang difficult to tax something that you already own.

Putting it in perspective to me means $1 per ml (I vape 36mg), and at 5-7ml per day i.e. $5-$7 per day) it means about $2k per year just for Fed Taxes, more when the states chime in. While it may well still be less than smoking, it is a hell of a lot more than I am paying now.

Nope, not gonna give it to them.......

 

[hittman]

I’m truly glad I’m stocked up into my mid 90’s but feel bad for those that aren’t or don’t know. I’ll keep crossing my fingers for those folks that this crazy tax doesn’t pass.