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AndriaD

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not baccos here i went to vape and hit those fruits and creams and melons and then tried a cig taste bacco and thought to my self how could i ever have used it before lol

Yeah... I actually figured out how to make a really good Virginia DIY... and about a week later, decided I really didn't like tobacco flavor anymore. :facepalm:

Andria
 

Nic-holio

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Yeah I'm not real big on tobacco flavors either, although I think that is mostly due to my experience with them in pre-mixed e-liquids. I just haven't found that many good ones. I'm going to try to have a few good tobacco recipes for when I'm in the mood for a tobacco liquid though.

2 Dekang tobacco flavors I tried about 3 years ago were pretty good - USA Mix and Tobacco. They were 24mg "freebies" included with the starter kit I bought on "day one". They were mixing it in-house with Dekang flavor concentrates. But as it turned out, they had some issues with mixing - the lower nic level you ordered, the less flavor the juice had in it. My wife and I became convinced that they were just "watering down" liquids already mixed at a higher nic level with PG to reduce the nic content, and diluting the flavor at the same time. The last bottle of USA Mix I ordered from them had almost zero flavor and gave me a sore throat and headache each time I tried to vape it. They couldn't mix anything else consistently either so we switched to another vendor as a primary e-liquid supplier, and I tried a couple others here and there.

I tried one tobacco from a company that is pretty famous for their taste bud-zapping hot cinammon candy flavor and selling bottles of flavor doublers. Their tobacco liquid did indeed have a very nice flavor and they were quite proud of their tobacco extraction process, but it was an extremely thin liquid (like water) with a lot of alcohol in it and almost zero vapor. Nothing I had (3 different kinds of cartos) could handle it without shorting out or killing the carto, and I was constantly having to "chase ohms" - ie, vary the voltage depending where the ohms were -- which constantly changed as I tried to vape it. (I really believe this was because of how much alcohol was in the liquid). After the 3rd carto frying, I contacted them. They blamed my Provari or how I was using it, although they admitted they sometimes vary the amount of PGA they use in a mix (!?!?!?) and this was the only liquid I'd seen this happen with. And of course would not issue me a refund. "I was the only customer who had ever had a problem with their ZOMG magic tobacco liquid." We moved on, again... :)

Since then I've had a couple of decent RY4's, one a hangsen mix and one from the vendor we switched to after the first one. This vendor has a lot of really good non-tobacco type juices (we've been buying from them for about 2.5 years now) but none of their tobacco flavors really jumped out at me as something I absolutely had to keep in my regular order rotation - most didn't really have much of a tobacco flavor. One was just about all grass/hay flavor, and another we affectionately renamed "Pirate's ...." that I never ordered again. (LOL) They have one which I'm convinced has a smidgeon of jalapeno in it to give it a slight peppery floral taste that is interesting. I may try to mix up something like that someday. I did notice TFA has a jalapeno.... :)

I've got one "recipe" that I've been experimenting with and like so far - quite vapeable, although I may try to add another thing or two to it before I bang the gavel. It doesn't use all TFA flavors though so it may be considered off-topic here. It's 7% seedmans captain black concentrate plus 2-3 drops per 5ml of Tobacco Absolute solution (the TA may be TFA but I'm not sure, it came from OSDIY in a 1/4oz glass jar). I made the solution using 15ml PG, 2ml PGA, 1/32 tsp of warmed TA, and 1ml of EM crystals. With a good hot water bath and a couple minutes of shaking, it's vapeable same day and you will taste it - but it's definitely better after a couple of days. The last bottle I mixed up, I put 3 drops of TA solution per 5ml, and hit a slight grassy/hay note on mouth-to-lung inhale. I had just switched to an RTA and Magma RDA clone for taste-testing (from using an i306 drip atty for taste testing and Boge cartos in a tank for carry), so I'm not sure if that grassy/hay note is there at 2 drops per 5ml. It's not bad at 3 drops per 5ml though, and I haven't really noticed that grassy/hay note after the first day or so (what little bit is left of the 30ml bottle is about a week old now) but I will probably drop back to 2 drops per 5ml when I mix my next 30ml bottle up today. This was a 60/40 PG/VG mix by the way - but I'll be experimenting with much higher VG level soon.

I'll probably give the TFA Black Honey Tobacco a try when I run out of Seedman's, since from description they seem to be similar.
 
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AndriaD

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When I still had "smoker's tastebuds," all the sweet ones like RY4 just grossed me out completely -- to me, tobacco is not and should not be sweet. In the Virginia DIY I mixed, I used 6% tart apple and 3% unsweetened cinnamon redhot, plus 1% of bitter wizard; the Virginia flavor I found that suited me best was Flavor Express, or Tobacco Express, "Virginia"; their "Golden Virginia" is also not too bad, though it has some of that green/grassy kind of taste you mentioned; I think I used .5% of the Golden Virginia, just for the slight smokiness it has, but mainly used the plain Virginia flavor, I think 2%, and it came out GREAT, didn't even need steeping, which really surprised me, with all the "accepted wisdom" about tobacco flavors needing a long steep.

But then I just lost my taste for tobacco flavor, so all that was for nothing. Still got about 60ml of Virginia that I'm pretty sure I'll never vape, but I guess it's progress, that my natural inclination has just moved on past that flavor, now that I no longer smoke.

Andria
 

b.m.

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If you want REAL tobacco flavor you need to opt for a NET.

I have vaped NET' of my favorite cigars from time to time and although more expensive than traditional flavors, these capture the true tobacco flavors because they are from tobacco!

IMHO
I couldn't agree more.I have no desire to smoke at all,but i do enjoy the taste of some tobacco's,so i am always on the search for good ones.The best i have found have been net's,and they don't have to be expensive either.Just like with diy,you can make your own net's very cheaply.I have made a Captain Black net that is fantastic,and the total caost to get started was very cheap.Since i already diy,i already had the pg,vg,and nic,so all i had to buy was a pouch of Capt. Black,it was like $6,after making an extract from it,i got enough flavoring to make about 500ml of finished juice,and i still have most of the pouch of tobacco left to make alot more.Same with cigars,i bought a 5 pack sampler that included my favorite cigars for $25,those 5 cigars got me close to 500ml of flavoring,once mixed into final juices,it will get me a few liters worth of juice haha.
 

Nic-holio

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True AndriaD --

I sort of lump the RY4 in with tobacco flavors although to taste it (at least, the couple I have) -- it's not really much of a tobacco flavor really.

But otherwise with tobacco flavors I don't really think they should be sweet either, except for maybe the Captain Black/pipe tobacco types, since they generally are "for real".

The others I liked weren't really sweet either. Dekangs for example. Not at all sweet.

Zooming out a bit I'm with you -- I ended up picking several non-tobacco flavors I liked (though the road getting there was a bit spotty for me) -- and tend to like those non-tobacco flavors as a group more than the tobaccos, as a group. But since I have a few tobacco-type ingredients I'll see what I can do with 'em and share what I come up with. If nothing else a decent tobacco flavor makes an interesting "flavor break". I went for the captain black/TA mix I did early/first because I had to make up some base solutions with stuff I bought (the TA solution) and figured I'd try something out with it while I was at it. :)

I'm getting ready to taste-test some black licorice I bought some of with my first flavor concentrate order. Just finished mixing up a bottle of "steady standby" straight menthol and since the syringes are already dirty I figure I might as well before I clean 'em out. :)
 

ItTechy

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I couldn't agree more.I have no desire to smoke at all,but i do enjoy the taste of some tobacco's,so i am always on the search for good ones.The best i have found have been net's,and they don't have to be expensive either.Just like with diy,you can make your own net's very cheaply.I have made a Captain Black net that is fantastic,and the total caost to get started was very cheap.Since i already diy,i already had the pg,vg,and nic,so all i had to buy was a pouch of Capt. Black,it was like $6,after making an extract from it,i got enough flavoring to make about 500ml of finished juice,and i still have most of the pouch of tobacco left to make alot more.Same with cigars,i bought a 5 pack sampler that included my favorite cigars for $25,those 5 cigars got me close to 500ml of flavoring,once mixed into final juices,it will get me a few liters worth of juice haha.

I never considered doing the extraction myself....kinda like sacrilege....destroying good cigars...LOL

The NET I have bought from NET, really wasn't too bad, but hey it's like buying juice...once you become a DIY and can mix fairly well one hates spending $$ on e-juice or anything related to such..:D
 

b.m.

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I never considered doing the extraction myself....kinda like sacrilege....destroying good cigars...LOL

The NET I have bought from NET, really wasn't too bad, but hey it's like buying juice...once you become a DIY and can mix fairly well one hates spending $$ on e-juice or anything related to such..:D

Ah,it's more like letting that cigar live a longer life haha.I used to love cigars,but always hated spending $10 or more for 1 cigar that would only last me a few hours.After doing my first cigar extract,i got 120ml of extract from it,so that 1 cigar will make the equivalent of a few boxes of cigars haha.Although i gotta admit,it's a little hard the first time taking a great cigar and ripping it into shreds,it'll bring a tear to your eye haha.
 

AndriaD

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True AndriaD --

I sort of lump the RY4 in with tobacco flavors although to taste it (at least, the couple I have) -- it's not really much of a tobacco flavor really.

But otherwise with tobacco flavors I don't really think they should be sweet either, except for maybe the Captain Black/pipe tobacco types, since they generally are "for real".

The others I liked weren't really sweet either. Dekangs for example. Not at all sweet.

Zooming out a bit I'm with you -- I ended up picking several non-tobacco flavors I liked (though the road getting there was a bit spotty for me) -- and tend to like those non-tobacco flavors as a group more than the tobaccos, as a group. But since I have a few tobacco-type ingredients I'll see what I can do with 'em and share what I come up with. If nothing else a decent tobacco flavor makes an interesting "flavor break". I went for the captain black/TA mix I did early/first because I had to make up some base solutions with stuff I bought (the TA solution) and figured I'd try something out with it while I was at it. :)

I'm getting ready to taste-test some black licorice I bought some of with my first flavor concentrate order. Just finished mixing up a bottle of "steady standby" straight menthol and since the syringes are already dirty I figure I might as well before I clean 'em out. :)

Yeah, I think if I was going to vape any tobacco flavors at all now, it would be those genuinely-sweet types of tobacco, the pipe tobacco sort. I got an ejuice a while back that I truly love the taste of, but cannot vape because it's 95% VG, which just suffocates me -- "Long Bottom Leaf" Pipe Sauce; it's like, sweet, smoky tobacco, bitter coffee, and a hint of chocolate and vanilla... I've tried my hand at trying to recreate the flavor with my usual 80%-85% PG, though so far I'm not too successful; I did discover that Inawera Cappucino makes a really nice vape. I also got some Inawera Virginia Tobacco Absolute, but it doesn't seem as smoky as I thought it would be.

My main problem is that I don't know "tobacco culture" -- the different types of tobacco that have their own distinctive sort of taste -- I know that Virginia is very mild and smooth, with a sort of faintly bittersweet hint; but that's the only tobacco that I could taste and say, yeah, that's Virginia -- the other types are completely unknown to me. I've seen one type mentioned a lot, called "Cavendish" -- is that one of the sweet ones? I tried at first to get involved in the thread about NETs, but they were spouting so much "tobacco culture" lingo, I had no earthly idea what they were talking about, so I quit hanging out in there.

Andria
 

Mrdaputer

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Working down the list of base flavors in Bill's blog post, I'm having a little trouble finding TFA Vanilla Custard. 1 Stop DIY Shop doesn't list it in any size although they have just about every other flavor. It looks like I could probably order it direct from TFA, at least in up to 30ml sizes. Anyone have any other sources for this?

I could probably get by without it for a while though - I only see a few recipes that use it in the recipe collection.

Thanks :)

You can try here Vanilla Custard-TFA - Bull City Vapor They have 4 oz in stock
 

Bill's Magic Vapor

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The TFA 4 oz bottles at The Perfumer's Apprentice are about the same cost as the 1 ounce bottles with a bulk account, which is free, and there is no minimum. Of the basic fifteen or so flavors that I recommend at first, one should try and get those in the 4 ounce size (for a wee bit more than the 1 ounce size), as you will use those in many, if not most, recipes. Much cheaper this way both long and short term, and it easy to do, and provided to you automatically, even if you are new, even if you've never ordered before. Most of the more than 200 flavorings at TFA, you will perhaps never use, or use at most, in perhaps only a single recipe. I believe there are about 40 flavorings that I don't have, but only about 20 or 30 different flavorings that I use day in and day out.

We say this over and over, but you need the vanillas, creams and sweeteners for most recipes, followed by a few fruits, followed perhaps by your favorite flavors, and then the one-off recipe flavorings. Those fifteen or twenty flavorings that I mention on my blog, though, will be in virtually every recipe you make, so the larger sizes make sense, and TFA's willingness to provide their juices in bulk, at a 65 - 70% discount, is just not something you should pass up. Get those 4 ounce bottles for the critical basic 15 or 20 that you will use every day. Good luck! :toast: :D

:2cool: :vapor:
 

carrielsal

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I've been lurking for a long time. Several months ago I bought a ton of FA and TFA flavors, but I had a stockpile of my ADV. My stockpile finally ran out, and it was the push I needed to start my venture into DIY. This thread has been a wealth of information. I've started slowly, but I've already managed to mix a few flavors that are really good.
 

CampbellMC

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I am excited to get started, I decided to go with TFA flavorings to get started, and looked over Bill's Blog and hundreds of posts and hopefully I will be ready when my shipment arrives next week. Made sure to get my creams and sweeteners, as well as my base fruit flavorings I enjoy. Then added a few more flavors to play with afterwards. I have 3 recipes I will be trying to tune to my tastes first that I have found for Strawberries and Cream, French Vanilla Capp., and Rasp. Lemonade. Thanks everyone for your posts.
 

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The TFA 4 oz bottles at The Perfumer's Apprentice are about the same cost as the 1 ounce bottles with a bulk account, which is free, and there is no minimum. Of the basic fifteen or so flavors that I recommend at first, one should try and get those in the 4 ounce size (for a wee bit more than the 1 ounce size), as you will use those in many, if not most, recipes. Much cheaper this way both long and short term, and it easy to do, and provided to you automatically, even if you are new, even if you've never ordered before. Most of the more than 200 flavorings at TFA, you will perhaps never use, or use at most, in perhaps only a single recipe. I believe there are about 40 flavorings that I don't have, but only about 20 or 30 different flavorings that I use day in and day out.

We say this over and over, but you need the vanillas, creams and sweeteners for most recipes, followed by a few fruits, followed perhaps by your favorite flavors, and then the one-off recipe flavorings. Those fifteen or twenty flavorings that I mention on my blog, though, will be in virtually every recipe you make, so the larger sizes make sense, and TFA's willingness to provide their juices in bulk, at a 65 - 70% discount, is just not something you should pass up. Get those 4 ounce bottles for the critical basic 15 or 20 that you will use every day. Good luck! :toast: :D

:2cool: :vapor:

I have to ask this, because there is something I don't understand about blending certain flavors.

It makes total sense that if you were trying to make something like cheesecake, a cobbler, or other such baked good type flavor, you'd need to blend several flavors. There are a good number of things that when thinking about it, make sense as a blended flavor. However when I read posts like yours, where you say that, for instance, those 15 or so flavors are used in nearly everything you need, especially creams/custards/vanillas, I find myself asking "how on earth" and feeling like there is something I don't understand and desperately need to.

I DIY, but I've been on a strict budget for a long time, so I've stuck to a handful of things I know I like. For instance, I really like black licorice. However as a single flavor black licorice when vaped comes off as bland and fairly harsh on the throat. It just needs something to mellow it out and make it pop. I can't figure out a single thing that would make sense to add to a black licorice flavor.

I have a rootbeer flavor I've gotten great progress on, and it is a blended flavor. It feels like it is missing a bit of acidity and I have no idea how to give it a carbonated effect some soda liquids achieve. But I'd never add lemon to it for that acidity.

I remember reading someone talking about how they perfected a watermelon flavor by adding raspberry to it. They're nothing alike, how does that help?

I guess I'm rambling. In essence I have a hard time understanding blending flavors properly. I don't understand how seemingly unrelated flavors manage to make their way into a mix and manage to help. When dealing that far out left field, how do you even decide what to put in?
 

Bill's Magic Vapor

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I have to ask this, because there is something I don't understand about blending certain flavors.

It makes total sense that if you were trying to make something like cheesecake, a cobbler, or other such baked good type flavor, you'd need to blend several flavors. There are a good number of things that when thinking about it, make sense as a blended flavor. However when I read posts like yours, where you say that, for instance, those 15 or so flavors are used in nearly everything you need, especially creams/custards/vanillas, I find myself asking "how on earth" and feeling like there is something I don't understand and desperately need to.

I DIY, but I've been on a strict budget for a long time, so I've stuck to a handful of things I know I like. For instance, I really like black licorice. However as a single flavor black licorice when vaped comes off as bland and fairly harsh on the throat. It just needs something to mellow it out and make it pop. I can't figure out a single thing that would make sense to add to a black licorice flavor.

I have a rootbeer flavor I've gotten great progress on, and it is a blended flavor. It feels like it is missing a bit of acidity and I have no idea how to give it a carbonated effect some soda liquids achieve. But I'd never add lemon to it for that acidity.

I remember reading someone talking about how they perfected a watermelon flavor by adding raspberry to it. They're nothing alike, how does that help?
-
I guess I'm rambling. In essence I have a hard time understanding blending flavors properly. I don't understand how seemingly unrelated flavors manage to make their way into a mix and manage to help. When dealing that far out left field, how do you even decide what to put in?

Great questions, Lanore!

TFA are flavorings, are, for the most part, not finished flavors, meaning single flavor mixes don't taste complete, perhaps, 90 - 95% of the time. Think of it like cooking because there are many analogies. Making something as simple as banana is tricky. Flavorings wise, there's the inside fruit taste, but that flavoring changes over time depending on how ripe it is. Fruit taste naturally sweet to me, but our banana, for example, does not taste sweet. If we want a sweet tasting banana we have to add both the banana and sweetener.

In this way, you can think a flavorings as flavor pieces, that can be constructed to make whatever you like. Some flavor makers will make complete flavorings, meaning you don't have to add sweetener to the banana. Some makers make really strong flavorings, etc. TFA gives us the building blocks to make anything we like.

Think about a chocolate bar. If you've tasted raw chocolate, it is quite bitter, and so is the flavoring. Add milk, sugar, butter, cream, etc. and you make chocolate. TFA makes the raw chocolate, and you have to add the other ingredients to make a finished chocolate, for example.

Adding creams, vanillas and sweetener to a flavoring is what nature does to make a finished banana flavoring. TFA flavorings are the pieces of the banana flavoring. When you think about the banana, again, it is a little creamy, right? It is sweet. Add all those together and create a finished banana flavoring.

How do you know to add a little of this, and a little of that? For me, it was trial and error, and time. I didn't use recipes, for the most part, but found what worked for me through trial and error. So, you can say a lot of my recipes were accidents that turned out really good. Most people will quit before discovering a good recipe without direction. Took many months for me to make my first ADV. I almost quit. I would have, had I not spent $500 getting set up with DIY. I didn't want to lose my investment, so I kept at it. Six months later I had my first ADV, and learned a trick or two along the way, like what goes with what, and in what percentages. Once you do discover the combinations, practically everything you make tastes good. Hope this helps. :toast: :D

:2cool: :vapor:

Edit: Adding raspberry to watermelon helps the watermelon remain non-chemical/floral, and stay fruity. It's just a trick we learn a long the way. Strawberry does the same thing.
.
Try adding sassafras to your root beer. TFA doesn't have one. But it was the missing ingredient in my root beer float. Sassafras is the original ingredient in root beer.

Licorice benefits from cream, vanillas and sweetener (what doesn't?). Once you start to think through what it is when you taste something, you will find that bananas really do taste creamy, right off the tree, unless they are too ripe, a different flavoring. Just stick to it, practice, experiment, and time will teach you all you need to know. Follow other people's recipes, too. Look at their mixes, their percentages, their ingredients. Believe me, eventually, you can construct recipes in your mind, and they taste delicious when made, too. Good luck!

Somewhere along the line, I discovered that 100 drop test, with 1 drop equaling 1% of mix. This allowed me to quickly remix the percentages to discover different flavorings. I have thousands upon thousands of 100DT's to teach me about TFA flavorings....a lot of trial and error.....using my own tastes to guide me along the way.....toward the next mix. :D
 
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Nic-holio

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Wholesale account is free, no minimum orders, just go to the bulk size section and make an account. It just allows you to buy their larger sizes which are far more cost effective.

haha ok you've talked me into it. :) Will do that.

Hmm looks like I can't sign up for an account right now due to them being closed for the holidays. No worries. I'll get some stuff ordered from OSDIY for now and look into this later. Thanks MasteroftheVape.
 

AndriaD

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I remember reading someone talking about how they perfected a watermelon flavor by adding raspberry to it. They're nothing alike, how does that help?
.
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I've wondered about this particular flavor myself -- I absolutely cannot ABIDE raspberry; the flavor itself makes me feel sick. So how do other fruit flavors benefit from its inclusion? I don't get that -- the last thing I want to taste in a strawberry or blueberry or cherry is that godawful raspberry taste, or god help me, blackberry, which to me may be even worse-tasting than raspberry, though the flavor doesn't make me feel sick, it just makes me feel repelled. Ditto all that for pomegranate, ugh. Whoever had the brilliant idea to mix blueberry and pomegranate for all these fruit-juices these days, needs to be whipped.

How is it possible to add the taste of something you hate, to something you like, and make it taste better? I don't get that at all.

Andria
 
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