The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread
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Maybe you or someone can explain what is meant by flavor ratios, does 20-30%, mean the final ratio of flavors to base? So if making a 100ml batch final total of ejuice, does that mean that 20-30 ml is flavors, and 70-80 % is the NIC base?
I'm trying to keep it simple to start, and the helpful guy at NN seemed to suggest that flavorings were used in such small percentages that I could order my NIC base in the ratio of my final desired blend. I have not placed an order yet.
I'd like my finished juice to have a VG of 75%, PG of 25%, with a total NIC of 9mg. I just don't know how to order these 3 percentages for my starting NIC base.
My advice: get a juice calculator. Ejuicemeup is a good one for PC, and there are a few decent ones for Android. I picked up one called Liquix from Google Play. It was a couple dollars, but I prefer it over the free ones.
Also, consider getting 100mg/ml nic base. 500ml of 100mg nic base will last you quite a while, and you'll be able to mix whatever PG/VG ratio you'd like. VG and PG are pretty cheap (~$10/qt), so in the long run it'll probably save some money.
As far as flavor concentration, it varies. Sometimes I prefer unflavored, sometimes I want just a little (3-5%), and some recipes take 15% or more. Having strong nic base and plenty of PG/VG on hand means that you can mix whatever ratio/strength you would like.
Anyway, that's just my 2¢. Different people have different ways of mixing, whatever works for them.
BOOM!
@Mactavish, We'll take your 100ml example.
Using any vendor concentrates (of which 99.9% of them are PG based)
does 20-30%, mean the final ratio of flavors to base? Yes.
So if making a 100ml batch final total of ejuice, does that mean that 20-30 ml is flavors, and 70-80 % is the NIC base? Close. 20-30% flavor in PG, YOU would want 9% of 100mg/ml VG Nic, 0% added PG, and the remainder in VG, so somewhere between 70-80ml VG.
Here's another example, but I'll work backwards. You said "....about 75% VG, 25% PG, 9 mg NIC".
When mixing your own creation, using 100mg/ml PG Nic @9%, 9% already has gone towards your 25% PG, leaving only 16% for flavor, with 75% for VG.
Personally, i like e-liquid-recipes dot com for many reasons.
When you add/look at a particular flavor, you see the entire community notes, including min/max/average used in recipes. Also max for single item recipes.
You can find a public recipe based on ingredient(s)
The community rates (gives stars) to popular ones, as well can/does make comments, etc.
"flavorings were used in such small percentages" . Depends on vendor. Not if you stick with TFA, except Pineapple, Guava, and a few others.
100mg/ml nic makes life easier in your head for mixing.
Using any vendor concentrates (of which 99.9% of them are PG based)
does 20-30%, mean the final ratio of flavors to base? Yes.
So if making a 100ml batch final total of ejuice, does that mean that 20-30 ml is flavors, and 70-80 % is the NIC base? Close. 20-30% flavor in PG, YOU would want 9% of 100mg/ml VG Nic, 0% added PG, and the remainder in VG, so somewhere between 70-80ml VG.
Here's another example, but I'll work backwards. You said "....about 75% VG, 25% PG, 9 mg NIC".
When mixing your own creation, using 100mg/ml PG Nic @9%, 9% already has gone towards your 25% PG, leaving only 16% for flavor, with 75% for VG.
Personally, i like e-liquid-recipes dot com for many reasons.
When you add/look at a particular flavor, you see the entire community notes, including min/max/average used in recipes. Also max for single item recipes.
You can find a public recipe based on ingredient(s)
The community rates (gives stars) to popular ones, as well can/does make comments, etc.
"flavorings were used in such small percentages" . Depends on vendor. Not if you stick with TFA, except Pineapple, Guava, and a few others.
100mg/ml nic makes life easier in your head for mixing.
@Mactavish, Here's a recipe that won 2014 Recipe of the Year, as voted by the Reddit community, and my current ADV.
It's called Mustard Milk, by the mixer/author fizzmustard.
6% Strawberry (TFA) not ripe.
8% Vanilla Bean Ice Cream (TFA)
Thats 14% flavors.
Now, if you use
9% 100mg/ml PG Nic - that brings your PG to 23%, so 2%, more PG, and 75% VG.
9% 100mg/ml VG Nic - that leaves your PG at 14%, so 11%, more PG, and 75% VG.
2 nuggets I forgot.
1. ALWAYS shake each flavor before each use. Like 5-10 seconds.
2. ALWAYS shake your Nic for longer before each use.
It's called Mustard Milk, by the mixer/author fizzmustard.
6% Strawberry (TFA) not ripe.
8% Vanilla Bean Ice Cream (TFA)
Thats 14% flavors.
Now, if you use
9% 100mg/ml PG Nic - that brings your PG to 23%, so 2%, more PG, and 75% VG.
9% 100mg/ml VG Nic - that leaves your PG at 14%, so 11%, more PG, and 75% VG.
2 nuggets I forgot.
1. ALWAYS shake each flavor before each use. Like 5-10 seconds.
2. ALWAYS shake your Nic for longer before each use.
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I ordered 100mg nic in 70/30 VG-PG because that's the way I vape it. When you add in the flavorings, that increases the PG and gets the ratio out of whack. The ejuice calculator will tell you how much extra VG to add to get back to 70/30 (or whatever percentage you want). It's very easy with the calculator.
And at 100mg nic in either Standalone/100% PG or VG requires NO calculator whatsoever. So easy to do in your head, why complicate matters? No need to 'get back to' anything.
Thanks. I'll try that when I get my order of vg in.
Hi @Mactavish
@Frocket explained things pretty well but I'm going to toss my
in as well.
I will also add a HUGE +1 to @Frocket's recommendation to find a recipe/juice calculator you like and use it. Then you will not really have to worry about which ratios effect what because the calculator will tell you.
It will depend on a lot of different things: flavors you use, brands you use, and ALWAYS; how you like your juice to taste. That last one is the biggie. And only you can know the answer to it.
Now, if you know you will keep your Flavor Ratio at/or below 15%, and don't care what your PG/VG ratio is, and don't mind a nicotine range of 8-10mg, then yes, physically, it can be done.
For me, I say, use a nic in either 100% PG OR 100%VG along with some unflavored PG and VG, get and use a juice calculator, and start mixing. After a while, If you find you only mix a couple of recipes over and over, or they all have very similar flavor ratios, or you like unflavored, THEN revisit premixing a PG/VG/nic base. But, until then, you haven't committed a large portion of your supplies (and investment) to something that isn't working for you.
Or, if you just gotta try it; buy either 100% PG OR 100%VG along with some unflavored PG and VG, and experiment by making SMALL test batches of PG/VG/nic base of your own until you find a base recipe that works for you.
I am sure there are others that feel differently, and will chime in too, and their methods are just as right for them as mine are right for me. That's part of what makes DIY cool. We can tweak it and shape it so that it works for us.
I hope you discover what works for you. Best wishes.
@Frocket explained things pretty well but I'm going to toss my
in as well.Flavor Ratio simply refers to the ratio of ALL flavors (whether it is 1 flavor or 20 flavors) to the total recipe volume (it doesn't matter if it is a 10mL recipe or a 500mL recipe). It usually is expressed as a percentage. So the flavor ratio is not related to the PG/VG or nic ratios.
I will also add a HUGE +1 to @Frocket's recommendation to find a recipe/juice calculator you like and use it. Then you will not really have to worry about which ratios effect what because the calculator will tell you.
I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree with NN Guy on this as a blanket statement. A lot of different people mix a lot of different ways. Some will mix with no flavors (and then NNG is absolutely right), some will mix with very little flavor and NNG is kind of right; as it depends on how much retweaking you want to do like @MikeADore mentioned), and there are those who mix with lots of flavor (30% is not at all uncommon) in which case NNG is dead wrong.
It will depend on a lot of different things: flavors you use, brands you use, and ALWAYS; how you like your juice to taste. That last one is the biggie. And only you can know the answer to it.
I personally am not a supporter of premixing PG/VG/nic in bulk for a ready-made "base" if you are experimenting with lots of different recipes, AND you want a specific PG/VG/nic target at the end. It certainly can be done, but the individual recipe tweaking pretty much negates ant "time savings" you might start with in the beginning. By that I mean you are still going to have to break out the PG and/or the VG and/or the nic to get it to the 75%/25%/9mg you say you want.
Now, if you know you will keep your Flavor Ratio at/or below 15%, and don't care what your PG/VG ratio is, and don't mind a nicotine range of 8-10mg, then yes, physically, it can be done.
For me, I say, use a nic in either 100% PG OR 100%VG along with some unflavored PG and VG, get and use a juice calculator, and start mixing. After a while, If you find you only mix a couple of recipes over and over, or they all have very similar flavor ratios, or you like unflavored, THEN revisit premixing a PG/VG/nic base. But, until then, you haven't committed a large portion of your supplies (and investment) to something that isn't working for you.
Or, if you just gotta try it; buy either 100% PG OR 100%VG along with some unflavored PG and VG, and experiment by making SMALL test batches of PG/VG/nic base of your own until you find a base recipe that works for you.
I am sure there are others that feel differently, and will chime in too, and their methods are just as right for them as mine are right for me. That's part of what makes DIY cool. We can tweak it and shape it so that it works for us.
I hope you discover what works for you. Best wishes.
Has anyone tried Andria's strawberry and cream? All the creams look good, but the strawberry at 16% seem high.
No, I too thought it was on the high side. I think she goes that high so no steeping is required. Usually the creams and vanilla do require steeping time to develop fully.
You may want to start lower% and up according to your taste. ie...maybe start at 50% lower ?
I tired it and loved it! My favorite part is that the strawberry remains at the forefront throughout the entire bottle. I do 15mL batches fwiw.
Wife even says it smells good which is rare.
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Thanks all for the supply suggestions. I guess I'll buy the strongest NIC in a 100% VG base, get some plain PG and VG, and just mix from scratch using the calculators. I thought I could simplify things if the base was pre mixed fairly close to my final goal. But from the various posts, it seems logical that I'll have far more flexibility if I just get all the base ingredients separately. THANKS!
That may be a reasonable approach with NN flavorings, I started DIY using NN. Their flavorings are designed to be used on their own. You can mix them up but you don't have to. And they are all used at around 5%, except for tobaccos which are 1%. I think they suggest a range of 2.5 to 7.5 but I always made them at 5%.
It's been a while but I think they are VG based not PG based.
So if you wanted 9mg nic juice, you could start with 10mg nic base, use 5% flavoring, and end up with around 9.5mg nic juice. Depends how precise you want to be.
You wanted 25% PG. Assume you are making 100mls of base to keep the numbers simple. You could put in 25mls of 10mg nic in PG, and 75mls of 10mg nic in VG. That would give you 10mg base with the VG/PG ratio you want. Or you could get VG base nic at a higher %, and add plain PG.
Then if you want to make 100mls of juice, you would start with 95mls of your base, and add 5% flavoring. Assuming I'm right about it being VG based flavoring, this would raise the VG % of the final mix slightly, and lower the nic % slightly. But still leave you pretty close to what you wanted, which I think is what the NN rep was suggesting. That's how I mix juice these days. I'm pretty sure I couldn't tell any difference between 8mg nic and 10mg nic juice.
If you want to end up with exactly 75/25 at 9mg, the calculations get a little more complicated. But there are lots of calculator programs around.
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