the lesser of 2 evils

[lilmrsyeti]

Well, a couple days ago made 7 months that my husband and myself have been smoke free. My husband smoked 2+ PAD for over 40 years..he's 63, so no, no FAD here..I smoke 1.5 PAD for over 15 years.

Like someone else stated...people think that vaping is going to be the magic "Pill" that will get them off smoking...that it will be easy to quit Cigs by vaping. If they'd just do a little research first, they'd realize that just like any other "quit smoking aids" it takes some will power on THEIR part...I don't think there will ever be an easy way to get off Cigs. If you go into vaping thinking that you won't have any withdraws from stopping smoking and Vaping..you are just setting yourself up for Failure. Using Vaping to get off cigs, you go through every withdraw that you would quitting cold turkey...but this way, it gives you something to do with your hands and also give you the satisfaction of seeing "smoke" coming out of your mouth.

As far as your friend saying that it made their lungs heavy..did they ever try different PG/VG ratios? Cause I know if I get too much VG, my lungs feel heavy...but you know what? I had enough sense (no offence to your friend) to figure out why my lungs felt heavy, and fixed that problem. So now I just don't Vape high % of VG and my lungs don't feel heavy any more.

At first I didn't think Vaping was helping me at all, Health wise. That is until after about 2 months in and I got around a smoker..OMGoodness, I thought my nose would shrivel up and fall off..talk about stank! YUCK! Matter of fact, just this past Monday, I was at a Hospital, stepped into an elevator..there was NO one inside..the door shut, and instantly, I smell the stench of a smoker..I don't believe anyone smoked in there, as the smell wasn't that strong..but I believe a smoker must have been in there right before me...and their smell lingered in there. No, I can actually smell flowers, from several feet away..so my nose is back to smelling things..things that I didn't realize, while smoking, that I was missing.

And here's the best thing that I have noticed since being off smoking...back on Sept 27th, I was at home, minding my own business...to wake up in the ER..what I was told from my husband, is I fell to the ground having a Seizure..never had one before..anyhow, I won't get long winded..but the ER Dr. had me do a CT Scan..it showed a LARGE brain tumor. I ended up needing to have a crani..Got that done 15 days ago...but the reason I'm telling you this...is my oxygen level during having my brain cut into..was, get this...100 % After smoking for over 15 years, I never thought that would be possible again. I'm also sure that had I been smoking, I would have never recovered as fast as I did. My surgery lasted 5 hours...8 hours after surgery I was up walking. Matter of fact, they ended up letting me leave the hospital a day or so early, because I was doing so well.

Of course the FDA won't be telling people the GREAT health benefits that Vaping does over smoking real Cigs...they are burying their heads in the sand all on account of the mighty dollar!

 

[Bracken]

I stopped smoking 10 days ago after 20 odd years as a 20 a day man. Vaping worked straight away for me
I know I would not have quit if I could not Vape.

The key to me is:
1. We know smoking is worse for you than vaping
2. Vaping is a hell of a lot cheaper!!!!!!!!!!!
3. You don't stink and polute others around you
4. I don't get that guilty feeling by Vaping as I did smoking

Everyone I see now smoking I want to tell them about Vaping and how it can change your life. The lesser of 2 evils? -I don't see Vaping as evil at all I see it as a life saver.

 

[wv2win]

in no way am I trying to unsupportive or discouraging , and it wasn't ment in that fashion , I was just speaking from experience and from all ive seen ECF has been a major support tool for me to reach 50 days and I love the articles on the forum and I support everyone I can when I can . will vaping work for me in the long run whos to say , I have reached day 50 and im still here and haven't had 1 cig and they are all around me .
yeah I will admit im very addicted to my PV and wouldn't go anywhere with out it ........... but to give true support 1 has to look at both sides of a coin and also understand both sides , in some venues the word failure only strengthens people to work harder , and strive
for success .and I hope I can succeed . and we can all succeed

How about applying some common sense to your comparison. What is in an analog and what is in eliquid. What have the numerous studies on both products revealed? A 10 year old could figure out that it is not the "lesser of two evils". Making that the title of this thread shows an extreme lack of any understanding or research into the two products.

 

[khaugust]

Quit Aug. 27. My lung capacity is amazing. I can smell! Regardless of anything else I'm not coating my lungs with tar. To me it's that simple. I blow my vapor into a tissue and nothing. I blew my cigarette into a tissue and wow. That's enough for me. So I have to drink water....I should be anyways...this just forces me to do it more...not so bad I think. I do consider myself a non-smoker. Just because I could hide the patch and you can see my PV doesn't change things...

 

[DrBeaker]

Any drug addict or alcoholic will keep doing what their doing reguardless of the physical consequences untill their ready to quit. What it comes down to is people will use what ever it is because they want to. I totally believe you quit when your ready to make a change in your life. You have to want to change to make change happen. When I quit smoking cigaretts I was so ready. Everytime I lit a cigarette I had to go outside get a lighter out and catch a cigarette on fire and inhale the burning stinky smoke. In the end I would take 3 puffs and put it out in disgust. My car clothes and breath stank of smoke yuk. Everyone around knows you were smoking. I smoked over 35 years and loved it most of that time.
My first ecig was a cigalike.
Thank God I found a vape shop right away so I could get some real gear.
I can see how people have problems with low end vape products that are ineffective.
If you don't have good reliable equipment you may fail.
I spend abou the same on vaping as I did on cigaretts on purpose. I have 30 different flavors liters I nic a few batterys and som cool mods to show for it.
I feel way better. More energy. No daily hacking cough. I don't stink.
My family and friends make jokes about my vape gear which is better than looking at me sadly smoking out side thinking there he goes smoking another one killing himself.
When I read this thread it kind of made me mad. Them I realized people will convence themselves of anything they want to stay in denial and to keep useing whatever it is because they want to.
When you ready to change your life change it!
At least people know vaping is a safer alternative to smoking. And it will save lives.

 

[Skinr1]

ok this response confuses me alittle , the lesser of to evils is exactly correct all over the web I have read about certain side effects that people experience from stopping smoking
I have also read many posts and topics about various side effects that SOME and I use the word SOME people have experienced from the use of ecigs and vaping .I have seen 1 of my own co workers get a nose bleed out or no where after vaping 3 weeks and I have experienced this myself along with a few other issues I have heard about , why did this happen its never happened before . hence like anything else vaping has its pros and cons again for some , and what may work great for 1 person may not work at all for the next person because everyone is different ,
when I first started vaping steady back in sept I experienced many effects that I never did when I smoked but I couldn't link what was happening to any 1 cause , and understandably so I sought information .
lets face it anything you put into your lungs other then just air is evil and its all in how something is interpited .
to say I have a lack of understanding is misleading because I smoked for 30 + years so in that aspect I do know what im talking about
as for vaping I am mearly writing down what I have experienced and seen in my friends and coworkers like others are doing .
in my opinion anything that is gonna maybe and I say maybe
give you a nose bleed
burn your throat
make your chest feel tight or your lungs feel heavy
maybe burn the inside of your mouth like I read in a post was happening to a person in another tread from cinnamon flavor juice
make your face break out
or give you CANCER like analogs do
anything at all that has a side effect at all is an evil
as the title states
are you still inhaling a substance into your lungs yes
is it air no
ok the lesser of 2 evils simple . agree with me or not thats my opinion from all the things ive read and what ive seen with my own eyes
again will vaping help me to stop smoking in the long run well who knows that's left to be seen
I applaud and support anyone who tries anything they can cause that's what its all about . and I applaud myself for having the will power to get as far as I have , but being a realist I look at both sides of the coin on things at all times ..... lets face it even the air we breath isn't perfect , and if anyone says vaping is perfect I would say prove it .
to hear many say vaping is better then smoking analogs but that's not saying vaping is perfect just an alternative .
fact is anything you inhale that isn't air weather a side effect can be linked to its use or not is an evil . and that's just my opinion . in the long run its all in how you feel about what your doing and if you feel its right for you .
so in my opinion the title is correct . the lesser of 2 evils .vaping is no different in my opinion then any other stop smoking alternative on the market its just a different form is it perfect no its not
but then again neither is anything else .good bad indifferent its just an alternative you try 1 if that doesn't work you try another simple .

please note : when my own doctor a medical professional refers to vaping as the lesser of 2 evils when I spoke to him about it and hes been a doctor since I was a little kid , if he refers to vaping as that , then that's what it is

 

[e-pipeman]

You ask whether this is a fad. Of course not. I had my last tobacco smoke back in 2008 and will not be smoking again, thanks very much.

As I started smoking when I was 12 (a pipe) I'm delighted to be vaping now.

No tobacco ever tasted as good as my blackcurrant mix.

Fad? Pshaw!

 

[Ryedan]

please note : when my own doctor a medical professional refers to vaping as the lesser of 2 evils when I spoke to him about it and hes been a doctor since I was a little kid , if he refers to vaping as that , then that's what it is

I agree Skinr1. The thing is the research I have done points to vaping being about 1% as risky as smoking is. IMO that makes it pretty safe. Not 100% safe, but I challenge you to come up with any activity that is 100% safe.

Did you read any of the material from the CASAA website that I posted?

There is a very interesting post on ECF "A list of symptoms when quitting tobacco and changing to an e-cigarette". It gets updated pretty regularly when new material comes to light. There is a lot of information there.

From that post:

"Section 6: Assorted notes

1. Medical reports of illness
The lack of official medical reports of illness linked to e-cigarettes is extraordinary. After global use by millions of people for many years, there is not one single confirmed report of morbidity or mortality linked positively to e-cigarette use. Even common medications such as aspirin could not achieve this record. It indicates that e-cigarettes are best thought of as a food product like coffee, since no medication can replicate this accomplishment. Note: there are rare cases of issues with long-term abuse of NRTs but such cases are so uncommon they are not considered clinically significant (they are not even identifiable statistically); ecigs do not even have this level of issue. Be very careful indeed in ascribing this to a lack of monitoring in some form: e-cigarettes are far more more closely and carefully observed than any pharmaceutical.

2. Tendency to assign all new symptoms to e-cigarette use
There is a strong compulsion in many people to assume that all/any new medical symptoms must be related to their new electronic cigarette usage. In 98% of cases these are found to be normal symptoms of tobacco withdrawal which they were unaware of - such symptoms are very wide-ranging and can occur for up to six months. In some cases, a full check-up reveals there is an unrelated medical issue. Finally, some symptoms are due to intolerance to a particular brand of e-liquid or type of ingredient."

The whole thing is a very interesting and informative read.

 

[nmackan]

Still I cant understand your purpose my friend. hundreds of people here state enthusiastically that vaping is perfect saved them smoking evil and day by day getting better health. Explaining ingredients (My earlier posts had no effect I assume) are all around, Some side effects like heavy lungs, dry mouths or sore throats can be healed at once by water consuming, changing VG/PG rates etc.
No one can make me smoke again. Even if big tobacco and big pharma bans e-cigs I can make my e-cig myself fix my own liquids and everyone here can do these too. As I saw somewhere stated nicotine is carcinogen It is not. That way potatoes Tomatoes and eggplants would be carcinogen too.
We get glycerin and glicol largely in our houses even nicotine as I stated above.
If you will pardon me I should not say what should I do do I smoke? or Do I vape? But I can ask do I breath this polluted air or do I vape?

 

[Jay-dub]

I read this post a while back. There may be something good about vaping PG.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-liquid-discussion/380057-propylene-glycol-e-cigarettes-might-keep-us-healthy-says-researchers.html

I've mainly used VG actually. Hmmmm. I didn't see that post or I might have experimented with PG or blends more. I just noticed people mentioning allergic reactions to PG but hardly anyone mentioning problems with VG so I went the VG route. Plus, I guess psychologically I was more comfortable with a the word "vegetable" than the word "propylene". I know Olive Oil is an antiseptic so maybe VG would share some of those properties. Thanks for the link!

 

[FlamingoTutu]

please note : when my own doctor a medical professional refers to vaping as the lesser of 2 evils when I spoke to him about it and hes been a doctor since I was a little kid , if he refers to vaping as that , then that's what it is

Not too long ago I had a doctor come storming back in the exam room as I was leaving, get right in my face and tell me, "I promise you that this was caused by your smoking." Now, I liked this doctor a lot but didn’t think this was necessary at all. It was a serious condition, I was scared enough. Turned out it was a design flaw I was born with and exacerbated by years of hard physical work. So much for the doctor always being right. At least she handed me up the food chain to a specialist who got it all straightened out. Doctors don't know everything, how could they possibly, so sometimes it's prudent to get a little more information.

 

[Uma]

I used Nicorette gum to help me through the jonesing when I tried to quit smoking. It just made me sick to my stomache. So sick in fact, that I couldn't handle others chewing real gum without having dry heaves. Eventually, I carried it around with me, as a fad. That's all the gum was, was a fad, to pull out and show the busy body that, yes, thank you very much, I've tried it and have some...

The patch was a joke... All I got was a rash. But I hung in there, doing my duty to try my best to use it to quit smoking.

You don't want to hear about the pills I've tried. No sireeee.

The hypnotist? What a joke. But My body did immediately come down with all the smokers symptoms he said I would get if I didn't quit smoking. Gee thanks bubba.

Those were fads. Epic fail fads.

The eCig is just the opposite. I am in control of the mg, the gear, the flavor, the exhale, everything! I don't have to jump from mild, medium, strong... I add zero flavored to my mg flavored, comfort level at a time. I also use zero flavor to cleanse my palette.
ECigs are the ONLY product that has helped me to avoid lighting up. It's not a fad.
The ONLY fad thing about the eCigs, is the gear and the Flavors. Something new is constantly being manufactured, new vendors with new recipes, new mods, new tanks, new mouthpieces, new atomizers, new... MODS!!!! OMG!!!! The mods!!!! The clearomizers, the drip tips!!! Gotta have them all. I love this feeling called.... Shopping. Yep, we are shopping!!!!! I am so stoked....

But if the greedy politics get their way, the shopping will become a past fad as well.

I plead, beg, for everyone to join CASAA and sign petitions, write letters, show up at meetings, make phone calls, submit comments to newspaper comments, learn how to fight for your right to quit smoking!!

 

[Myk]

You either need to stop listening to the media or learn that nearly everything the media passes on from the government and the ANTZ is a complete lie.
Figure your friends are most likely repeating the lies they've heard.
Why do I say that? Because you rattled off a laundry list of the ANTZ BS like it was your own.

50/50 is about 43% better than the recommended quit smoking methods. Plus vaping doesn't carry a risk of suicide.

I'll address your friends' issues.
Burning throat, could be that they're smoking (burning liquid). Could be a PG or VG issue. Many with these issue won't stick it out long enough to learn how to vape or figure out what they can and can't handle.
Dry mouth, that's what PG/VG do. Drink more.
Heavy feeling in lungs, I've mostly seen this referred to with those who have a problem with VG. Although I can imagine someone describing what I feel with PG as that.
Shortness of breat, again PG/VG. Possibly flavoring.
Acne, I've seen claims of toxins being removed but I'm not so hocus pocus about things. I'd lean towards a skin issue with the PG/VG or flavorings. Or sometimes people get zits.
PG sensitivity, use 100% PG free. Johnson Creek is one who has it.
Burning nasal passages and congestion. I get that with some of my flavors. Congestion would go along with that. Although for me this year was terrible for allergies, open the window and I'd fill up. Keep the windows closed and I was fine.

Nagging daily side effects sounds like someone was taking too much nicotine or was going through cigarette withdrawls.
I had a nagging daily side effect for the first few days of needing a cigarette in the morning. Turns out I had Ulcerative Colitis that smoking was masking, the less I smoked the worse I felt.

The question is, why are we OK with suicide pills to quit smoking and a 93% failure rate of nicotine replacement therapy, but give smokers something that even 30% of them can ACCIDENTALLY quit with and we get up in arms about it?

I probably would've been off vaping by now if it wasn't for the Ulcerative Colitis requiring me to go back on nicotine. I was down to 0mg in 2 months.
Hell yes I'd return to smoking. I'm not going to crap out of a bag strapped to my stomach (not to mention the surgeries to have my guts ripped out to do that) just to appease some nanny state ANTZ.
My option is ecigs with nicotine or tobacco with nicotine. More meds and surgery is on my table but I'm not even looking that direction.

Of course ecigs are the lesser of two evils. That's all they have ever been promoted as. You might still be getting nicotine and you are still inhaling something other than air into your lungs.
If you ever find that clean air to inhale into your lungs let me know.

 

[Myk]

ok this response confuses me alittle , the lesser of to evils is exactly correct all over the web I have read about certain side effects that people experience from stopping smoking
I have also read many posts and topics about various side effects that SOME and I use the word SOME people have experienced from the use of ecigs and vaping .I have seen 1 of my own co workers get a nose bleed out or no where after vaping 3 weeks and I have experienced this myself along with a few other issues I have heard about , why did this happen its never happened before . hence like anything else vaping has its pros and cons again for some , and what may work great for 1 person may not work at all for the next person because everyone is different ,
when I first started vaping steady back in sept I experienced many effects that I never did when I smoked but I couldn't link what was happening to any 1 cause , and understandably so I sought information .
lets face it anything you put into your lungs other then just air is evil and its all in how something is interpited .
to say I have a lack of understanding is misleading because I smoked for 30 + years so in that aspect I do know what im talking about
as for vaping I am mearly writing down what I have experienced and seen in my friends and coworkers like others are doing .
in my opinion anything that is gonna maybe and I say maybe
give you a nose bleed
burn your throat
make your chest feel tight or your lungs feel heavy
maybe burn the inside of your mouth like I read in a post was happening to a person in another tread from cinnamon flavor juice
make your face break out
or give you CANCER like analogs do
anything at all that has a side effect at all is an evil
as the title states
are you still inhaling a substance into your lungs yes
is it air no
ok the lesser of 2 evils simple . agree with me or not thats my opinion from all the things ive read and what ive seen with my own eyes
again will vaping help me to stop smoking in the long run well who knows that's left to be seen
I applaud and support anyone who tries anything they can cause that's what its all about . and I applaud myself for having the will power to get as far as I have , but being a realist I look at both sides of the coin on things at all times ..... lets face it even the air we breath isn't perfect , and if anyone says vaping is perfect I would say prove it .
to hear many say vaping is better then smoking analogs but that's not saying vaping is perfect just an alternative .
fact is anything you inhale that isn't air weather a side effect can be linked to its use or not is an evil . and that's just my opinion . in the long run its all in how you feel about what your doing and if you feel its right for you .
so in my opinion the title is correct . the lesser of 2 evils .vaping is no different in my opinion then any other stop smoking alternative on the market its just a different form is it perfect no its not
but then again neither is anything else .good bad indifferent its just an alternative you try 1 if that doesn't work you try another simple .

please note : when my own doctor a medical professional refers to vaping as the lesser of 2 evils when I spoke to him about it and hes been a doctor since I was a little kid , if he refers to vaping as that , then that's what it is

Want to see the risk of the IBD drugs I'm on now (kidney and liver failure, swelling of the heart and lungs, bleeding {I've had nose and gum bleeds from it} and a lot more)? Add in the risks of nicotine and any risk you want to imagine inhaling VG/PG and flavoring will add to that.

Now compare to the same risks the next step in drugs carry plus an assortment of lymphomas that include a chemo resistant lymphoma. I may as well try smoking again.

And of course I have the risk of doing nothing which is death.

Everything is a risk assessment and ultimately each individual picks their lesser of two evils.

 

[Skinr1]

yes ryedan I did read over that thank you .

 

[Subdivisions]

Plus, I guess psychologically I was more comfortable with a the word "vegetable" than the word "propylene".

I took this out of the Wikipedia page on propylene glycol. It seems we were probably smoking it already

Propylene glycol is considered generally recognized as safe (GRAS) by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, and it is used as an humectant (E1520), solvent, and preservative in food and for tobacco products, as well as being the major ingredient in the liquid used in electronic cigarettes

 

[damthisisfun]

I have been free of cancer sticks for over a year. I smoked for 30 years and tried everything under the sun to try and quit. Vaping was the answer - if nothing else -watch this video - although not very scientific - that is about 10 days of smoking/tar for me.......just this alone - that I know for sure is not gunking up my lungs in enough for me to vape on.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMDfyF1VF6o

 

[Darkhorsekorea]

I have been off the cigs for 4 months now. To be perfectly honest vaping is too inconsistant to satisfy me fully, but I won't go back. Should add though that I probably vape more than I smoked and that I dont feel any healthier as yet.

 

[KjAthena]

Tried every method to quit smoking, smoked for 35 years vapeing worked and I have not had a smoke in over 90 days...everyone is still alive, I am still married and sane. This is not a fad to me

 

[WelshVapour]

I believe for some people it is fad. Fact is it's just come in to the mainstream even though it's been around in some form for years, entering this mainstream and being seen by many as something new inevitably will make it a fad for a lot of people. As an example, a friend of mine a few weeks ago said to me, "this is great! Smoking with a choice of flavours!" That alone said to me that really is all he sees in it, a nice flavoured smoke. When the novelty of that runs out, see him going back to smoking (obviously I hope I'm wrong and will be as encouraging as possible to help make sure that's not the case).

My reply to him was "it's more than that, it's potentially and likely life saving" and I believe that especially after 5 months of vaping without a cigarette.
I'm grateful to have found it, as grateful as I am that I found ECF and it's inspirational stories of people that view it as the life saving, cigarette .... kicking, awesomeness that it really is.

Fad? Maybe for some.
Life changing? For me, definitely.




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