The Mark of the Beast?

[Saintscruiser]

All these great subjects that I love talking about WAY before I joined! I hope it's okay to post and revitalize the subject.

One item that has been forgotten, which was the beginning of the countdown to the rapture was Israel becoming a country in May 1948. The impossible started happening.....the country became self-sufficient with crops that never grew before. The Golen Heights is green and lush. There is this tiny little country completely surrounded by angry Arabs that is still a country 62 years later.

The Israelis are preparing for a rebuilding of the Temple, or Synagogue. As you know, only the Levite tribe were priests. What I found absolutely fascinating was within the past couple of years, Israel held a conference for all the Levites to prepare for when the Temple is rebuilt. Now how did these people know they were from the Levite Tribe???? They have a certain chromosone (sp) that no one else has. This makes me wonder if all the other 11 tribes have a type of chromosone that is only theirs?

 

[providencewouldhaveit]

Hi, I'm new and thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. In Ezekiel 9:4&5 The God of Israel told an angel to mark the men who sighed over the abominations comitted in Jerusalem. I don't believe it was a visible mark. It's kinda like God saying those are mine. I look at Revelations probably a little differently than a lot of you. I see it a revealing the work of Christ as already accomplished but pearing into a heavenly view. I see the mark as a not mine mark not really visible. Those that are not His have a different way of thinking (head) and a differnt way of acting (right hand) I see revelations as a book that send you back into the rest of the bible to relearn, get deeper and a blessing to all who read it.

 

[NuGalicia]

I agree with providencewouldhaveit. Rev. 7:3 says God puts a seal (mark) on his servants' foreheads.

Most agree there's a spiritual signifigance to at least some, if not all numbers in scripture. For instance 40 is associated with trial, 7 with rest, 12 with authority, 3 with divinity, etc. (see Bullinger's 'Numbers in Scripture' for more).

It's clear '6' is associated with sin. Thus '666' means 'sin-sin-sin' in your thinking (forehead) or actions (hand).

 

[LisaLisa]

I absolutely believe it's a literal physical mark for 2 reasons. First, you won't be able to buy or sell without the mark, and you will be killed if you refuse to get it. So, it's something that everyone else can see or verify. Second, If you dig into the original greek word for "mark", it has a literal meaning.

Go to this site here and you can see the Greek translation. NETBible: Revelation 13:16

The english word "mark" is translated from the greek word "caragma" which means 1) a stamp, an imprinted mark
1a) of the mark stamped on the forehead or the right hand as the
badge of the followers of the Antichrist
1b) the mark branded upon horses
2) thing carved, sculpture, graven work
2a) of idolatrous images


The other scriptures that have the same word can be read here. NETBible: greek_strict_index:caragma

If you remember the passover, they were to put a literal mark of blood on their doors. This was also a literal marking of the door. I don't see why the mark of the beast would be any different as we are talking about things that will happen on the literal earth with literal events done by physical humans.

God's marks are invisible, spiritual markings...........but the markings of people on earth, by people on earth, appear to be very literal to me.

Now Revelation 7:3 says "Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God."

The english word "seal" comes from the greek word "sphragizo" which means 1) to set a seal upon, mark with a seal, to seal 1a) for security: from Satan 1b) since things sealed up are concealed (as the contents of a letter), to hide, keep in silence, keep secret 1c) in order to mark a person or a thing 1c1) to set a mark upon by the impress of a seal or a stamp 1c2) angels are said to be sealed by God 1d) in order to prove, confirm, or attest a thing 1d1) to confirm authenticate, place beyond doubt 1d1a) of a written document 1d1b) to prove one's testimony to a person that he is what he professes to be

It has a similar meaning, but it's absolutely not the same word. To me, it means to authenticate. If God meant it to mean the same as The Mark, He would have used the same exact word. But, a different word was used for a reason.

 

[Saintscruiser]

Great post, Lisa! Whether the mark can be seen or not, is inconsequential. Whatever it is will be used for buying, banking, medical records, selling, etc. You are stopped dead in your tracks if you don't have one....period. The 666 could be a suffix or prefix.....before or after your social security number. It is real. A mark is a mark!

Now a seal is different. I sort of think back to the olden times when wax was dripped over a correspondence seam and a coat of arms was used to seal it. Whatever it is, they are protected...sealed up, so to say, until Jesus comes back. None die. It's going to be like 144,000 Billy Grahams peaching The Gospel of Jesus Christ all over the world.

Now going deeper into the end time prophecies, how you do think the Christians are monitored? Found? What electronic device does everyone have that can become a listening device.....or a camera...... or video. Will it be their tv? computer? Car? I believe all cell phones' gps will locate many. I am a pre-trib and don't believe that we will be here. Right before the anti-christ is unveiled, we'll be out of here in the twinkle of an eye. Amen!

 

[NuGalicia]

LisaLisa - In the battle of the bulge 2 german spies were discovered because they used the word petrol instead of gasoline. Not saying 'Heil Hitler' could keep you from entering many places in Germany. They didn't check if a man was circumcised. A physical mark isn't needed to identify people to deal with (sell to). A store clerk could just ask you 'Isn't Jesus scum?' Christians weren't branded in the catacombs, they communicated that they were believers by something they KNEW - the sign of a fish.
Regarding using 2 separate words for marking something, consider that a seal is official, graffiti is not. If people will be officially marked with anything physical, it'd be called a seal. Therefore it's less likely something physical will be used as those would then be official. Jesus himself used two separate words for the same concept (love) in John 21:16-17

Saintcruiser - If we're gone in the rapture, why would anyone be looking for us with GPS or some other means of identifying us? Pre-trib & a physical mark of the beast are contradicting ideas, IMO.
Concerning pre-trib, scripture is pretty clear in 2 Thes. 2:1-4 that Anti-christ must be revealed first. Jesus said when you see him revealed, run in Mk. 13:14

The beautiful thing is that it's OK for christians to disagree on some issues and still be unified in true love & respect for each other as we do here. If my ideas are wrong, we can still enjoy each other here, and in eternity we'll all have a good laugh about it! I'm really hoping you're right & I'm wrong, cuz' then I won't be going through tribulation or around to worry about refusing a chip!!!

 

[Saintscruiser]

Saintcruiser - If we're gone in the rapture, why would anyone be looking for us with GPS or some other means of identifying us? Pre-trib & a physical mark of the beast are contradicting ideas, IMO.
Concerning pre-trib, scripture is pretty clear in 2 Thes. 2:1-4 that Anti-christ must be revealed first. Jesus said when you see him revealed, run in Mk. 13:14

You are soooooo right! I made that as clear as mud!

Have you studied about the 49 weeks in Daniel? The clock stopped at 48 weeks and one week has not been fulfilled and a week =s in measurement time (in this instance) a 7 year period. The clock on the 49 weeks stopped when Jesus died and rose on the 3rd day. There was a new covenant....a new testament that began the period of Grace. Once the alloted time is fulfilled in the era of Grace, the church will be raptured and the Old Testament clock starts ticking again for 7 years. That is why the Jewish people in Israel are trying to go back to the old ways.....sacrificing in a Temple that has yet been built.

When the rapture comes, Jesus taking His bride, as His wrath will not be poured out upon His bride (what groom would pour out wrath on their bride at the wedding feast) there will still be those that get saved. Many will become believers in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. But these people won't have a mark, they will be hunted, killed by being beheaded. There will have to be a way that "Big Brother" will be able to find the 'underground.' Oops.....husband needs computer. Will post more later!

 

[NuGalicia]

Yes, I agree that Daniel is a fascinating book.

I'm a mid-trib'er. Dan. 9:27 says the 'abomination of desolation' begins in the middle of the 7 year period you mentioned. Dan. 11:31-35 talks about believers enduring a trib. Some doing exploits, others suffering.

As I said, I sincerely hope my personal conclusions are incorrect. Who'd want to go through a time of trouble like the world's never seen before? My own opinions, will never be worth dividing us over.

I go to a pre-trib church. People are on all sides of this issue, but it's rarely discussed there because we focus on similarities instead of differences. It's amazing how many denominations have sprung up solely divided by their views of prophecy.

Someday we'll see through the glass clearly. For now, I enjoy hearing other people's opinions. Hopefully I'll learn something I hadn't considered before and you'll help me grow!

 

[LisaLisa]

The beautiful thing is that it's OK for christians to disagree on some issues and still be unified in true love & respect for each other as we do here. If my ideas are wrong, we can still enjoy each other here, and in eternity we'll all have a good laugh about it! !

For sure!

 

[Saintscruiser]

You are absolutely correct NuGalicia! Peace and harmony. Am I stating everything as a 'know it all?' Oh my, I hope not. Jesus and His truth are so much a part of my life that sometimes I get consumed. You cannot hear inflection and tone of voice on a forum. I truly apologize to any and all if I have come across different than I intended. That's just the way I type.

My sister was a post-tribulationist and I asked her, "Hey, if we come back on horseback with Jesus, uh, we would have had to be there first. So she moved her opinion to mid-tribulationist.

I became a born again Christian 25 years ago, and I was immediately drawn into spiritual warfare and studying the Book of Revelation. I can't tell you how many times I've studied it, and I'm still learning more and more all the time. I also have fibromyalgia and forget some details and have to go back again and again! My faith is childlike. The Word says it, I believe it, and that settles that! Anyway, again, I'm sorry to all if I came across different than I intended.

Linda

 

[NuGalicia]

Saintcruiser: You don't seem argumentative to me at all. It's an art to type a friendly tone of voice in a post, one that I haven't mastered yet. Anyway, I'm with you, I love such discussions.

 

[LisaLisa]

Ok, I'm a post-tribulation rapture believer.......so many christians believe so many different things when it comes to the rapture. I believe we will have to endure to the end, but I'll be THRILLED if I"m wrong about this one. This is the one time that I actually want to be wrong.

But, why does it say that we will have to endure to the end? Why does it say that christians will be killed and beheaded for refusing the mark of the beast? Why does it tell us that we will be hunted and persecuted and to flee into the mountains? There are many scriptures that point to us being here until the final showdown. But, I'd like to be wrong, someone please show me that I'm wrong about this.

 

[LisaLisa]

Also, I do worry a little bit about the pre-trib believers because I feel that if it doesn't happen before the tribulaton, I"m afraid that alot of faith will be weakened by it. Some of my family are pre-trib and I do think about that sometimes. I just hope that all believers are prepared for either way because none of us know for sure 100% how it's all going to come down. We need to be prepared and faithful to the end, no matter when the end is.

 

[IndieVisible]

I think Doris Day says it best,

"Que sera, sera,
Whatever will be, will be;
The future's not ours to see.
Que sera, sera,
What will be, will be."

Me thinks conservative Christians worry too much. As a believer, I don't worry about any of that. When/if it happens the Lord will help me deal with it

 

[Saintscruiser]

In the Book of Revelation, the body of people called "the church" (us) isn't mentioned after the 3rd chapter until the end of the Book. The New Testament is chocked full of calling Jesus' kids 'the church.' Something to ponder.....and I'll have to find the Scripture, it states that the Hinderer has to be removed. Look at the amount of Christians on the earth now. Why doesn't satan just start it now? He can't. We, the saved, have the Holy Spirit living inside us and he just can't have the power he needs to begin 'his time.' Why? Because he just isn't that powerful. Again, the created can never be greater than the Creator. Amen. I'm going to have to look for that Scripture. I know what I've read, but I can rarely remember where it is. That is a hindrance to me and flusters me greatly! Let me find it and some others and like MacArthur....I'll be back.

 

[LisaLisa]

I know what I've read, but I can rarely remember where it is. That is a hindrance to me and flusters me greatly! Let me find it and some others and like MacArthur....I'll be back.

Ok, I"m waiting.

 

[Saintscruiser]

I finally found it......pant pant.

2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 - (you can start at the beginning of the chapter if you choose....this is New King James Version)

6) And now you know what is restraining, that he (anti-christ...me added) may be revealed in his own time.

7) For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

8) And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

When the Holy Spirit is taken from the earth or out of the way through the rapture, literally, all hell will break loose. And, I am sure that the anti-christ and his false prophet will come up with a convincing story about the disappearance of millions from the earth. Will there be people saved after the rapture? Absolutely. The 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel will be like Jewish Billy Grahams! Mazel Tov! God, even then, gives those who are left another chance. God goes the extra mile time and time again so that all mankind will be saved.

You know, when Jesus and us'ns come back at the 2nd coming, all Jesus has to do is say 2 words....."Drop dead." And they will. (I got that from Dr. Adrain Rogers) He will throw the anti-christ and the false prophet into the lake of fire....alive. They had their chance and they chose to go to accept the free gift of salvation.

 

[LisaLisa]

I finally found it......pant pant.

2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 - (you can start at the beginning of the chapter if you choose....this is New King James Version)

6) And now you know what is restraining, that he (anti-christ...me added) may be revealed in his own time.

7) For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

8) And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

When the Holy Spirit is taken from the earth or out of the way through the rapture, literally, all hell will break loose. And, I am sure that the anti-christ and his false prophet will come up with a convincing story about the disappearance of millions from the earth. Will there be people saved after the rapture? Absolutely. The 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel will be like Jewish Billy Grahams! Mazel Tov! God, even then, gives those who are left another chance. God goes the extra mile time and time again so that all mankind will be saved.

You know, when Jesus and us'ns come back at the 2nd coming, all Jesus has to do is say 2 words....."Drop dead." And they will. (I got that from Dr. Adrain Rogers) He will throw the anti-christ and the false prophet into the lake of fire....alive. They had their chance and they chose to go to accept the free gift of salvation.

Ok, maybe I"m a little dense, but I don't get any pre-tribulation rapture from those scriptures. Am I missing something? It wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Saintscruiser]

I finally found it......pant pant.

2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 - (you can start at the beginning of the chapter if you choose....this is New King James Version)

6) And now you know what is restraining, that he (anti-christ...me added) may be revealed in his own time.

7) For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

8) And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

When the Holy Spirit is taken from the earth or out of the way through the rapture, literally, all hell will break loose. And, I am sure that the anti-christ and his false prophet will come up with a convincing story about the disappearance of millions from the earth. Will there be people saved after the rapture? Absolutely. The 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel will be like Jewish Billy Grahams! Mazel Tov! God, even then, gives those who are left another chance. God goes the extra mile time and time again so that all mankind will be saved.

You know, when Jesus and us'ns come back at the 2nd coming, all Jesus has to do is say 2 words....."Drop dead." And they will. (I got that from Dr. Adrain Rogers) He will throw the anti-christ and the false prophet into the lake of fire....alive. They had their chance and they chose to go to accept the free gift of salvation.

I will include translation into the Scriptures. If I don't make any sense, just say so.

Verse 6 says that there is a restrainer, keeping the appearance of the anti-christ at bay. All true Christians have the Holy Spirit within us. What is keeping the tribulation from starting? Us. How? By prayer and taking the power from the enemy through prayer, doing what God wants us to do, and by rebuking the satanic/demonic influence. Scripture states that in 'Jesus Name satan has to flee.' When you have the world's Christians praying for souls, the solving of problems within our world, all hell cannot break loose because we are more powerful than they are. If we are removed, satan has cart blanche. That's when he can make his move and have his representative....his son, rise up with answers to the 'world's problems.'

Verse 7 says that the mystery of lawlessness is apparent all over the world. All you have to do is turn on your tv or read a newspaper. That only He (and the h was capitalized in Scripture) who is restraining, holding back, etc. will continue to restrain and hold back until He is taken out of the picture. This time in history will only be known by Almighty God the Father. Even Jesus said when He walked the earth that He didn't know the day or hour. Once He is taken out of the way, satan will push the anti-christ into the spotlight. Now, the Holy Spirit dwells within us. The Holy Spirit goes anywhere He wants, but Jesus' kids, who are saved by Grace, again have the Holy Spirit within us. He teaches, comforts, helps us pray to Almighty God, like Jesus did when He walked the earth. Now, how do you get the Holy Spirit who dwells in us out of the picture? He takes us out of the way....the rapture.

Verse 8 says that 'then the lawless one' (anti-christ), will be revealed. We won't know who he is, unless the Lord allows us to see. I hope not. But he will rise out of the Old Roman Empire. He could be an Arab since Jesus is Jewish. Jesus, when He comes back on a white horse will destroy with His breath. That's when He throws the anti-christ and the false prophet into the lake of fire....alive. Rev. 19: 20 - Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. The two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. (Man, I can almost hear their screams now.)

Hopefully that helped. I prayed before I posted. You may think I'm a crack pot!

 

[trukinlady]

From my understanding of Scripture, I believe Christians will go through the Tribulation.



In Matt 24:14-22, Jesus says: 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, whoso readeth, let him understand.

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains.

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house.

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


In verse 15 the Bible says when we see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place, then the tribulation begins.

In verse 22 the Bible says those days shall be shortened for the elect's sake. I believe we Christians are God's elect.

My interpretation may not be correct, and I'm not a scholar. But deep within my spirit, God is telling me "BE READY!" I'm preparing myself for whatever happens, and for whenever the rapture occurs. I'm not going to be caught unprepared. Thank You Jesus!

I'm so glad to be a member here! I feel such a strong fellowship! I'm very glad to be able to share our faith with one another. Without judgement, or conflict. I believe God is here in our midst--guiding us, protecting us, teaching us, forgiving us, and loving us. I pray for all who are seeking something--anything--to fill the emptiness inside them. Because God is the only answer. Through His Son Jesus! AMEN!