The myth of second hand vape

[sonicdsl]

I'll just leave these here....

CASAA: New study confirms that chemicals in electronic cigarettes pose minimal health risk

Anti-THR Lies and related topics | because cultivating the truth requires both seeding and weeding

http://rodutobaccotruth.blogspot.com/

http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/




And keep the heat down folks please.

 

[p.opus]

If All they wanted was More Money, would they want us to vape More instead of Less?

There is no basis to tax vaping. As a result, everyone who vapes is not being taxed.

The tobacco industry is the most heavily taxed industry. 80 percent of the cost of a pack of cigarettes is tax in one way or the other. The tax is justified because smoking is harmful.... The government makes more profit on a pack of cigarettes sold in the US than the tobacco company themselves.

The problem is, the government does not have the justification to tax it. The more people vape, the less they smoke, and unlike quitting using NRT, e-cigs actually have the gall to be a more permanent solution.

I am pretty sure if the government could find a way to get their piece of the vaping industry, I'm sure we would hear how great it is. As it stands, we are costing them revenue.

Also, Big Tobacco is still very powerful. They have powerful allies in government. They are all about preserving their source of revenue. So it's not JUST about taxes.

 

[stevegmu]

There is no basis to tax vaping. As a result, everyone who vapes is not being taxed.

The tobacco industry is the most heavily taxed industry. 80 percent of the cost of a pack of cigarettes is tax in one way or the other. The tax is justified because smoking is harmful.... The government makes more profit on a pack of cigarettes sold in the US than the tobacco company themselves.

The problem is, the government does not have the justification to tax it. The more people vape, the less they smoke, and unlike quitting using NRT, e-cigs actually have the gall to be a more permanent solution.

I am pretty sure if the government could find a way to get their piece of the vaping industry, I'm sure we would hear how great it is. As it stands, we are costing them revenue.

Also, Big Tobacco is still very powerful. They have powerful allies in government. They are all about preserving their source of revenue. So it's not JUST about taxes.

Sure there is. E-nic is a tobacco product. Tobacco products can be subject to state and federal tax.

Can you name some of Big Tobacco's powerful allies? Last I checked, the tampon industry has more of an influence with politicians than Big Tobacco.

 

[Jennie O]

All I know is second hand smoke makes me physically ill, and vapor, first or second, has no ill effects. There's no comparison for me.

 

[WattWick]

If your state still allows it, I'd say thats Margeuritas all round.

Not sure if you can drink those. People might confuse it with moonshine, battery acid, or water from a toilet bowl. What about the children?!

 

[Coldrake]

Look, It's not my intent to start a flame war here over this issue. It's just that I read on this forum day in and day out how safe vaping is, and again, I agree it is much safer than smoking. But there are people here who come off as vaping crusaders, saying that it's 100% safe, and anyone who says differently is a trouble maker, an ANTZ, a stool for BT/BP.

How about some links to people saying vaping is 100% safe, and that anyone who says differently is a trouble maker etc. If you can't provide the links, I can only conclude you have some ulterior motive for saying it.

Once I see the data that it's 100% safe, I'll gladly drink the kool-aid, and start bashing newcomers who say otherwise.

As others have said, NOTHING is 100% safe. I don't know why you can't understand that.

Ok, then please, please, pretty please, provide some links that say that second-hand vape is safe. And preferably studies that don't include words or phrases like "predictions" or "more studies are needed." If it is safe, the study should unequivocally say so.

Not conclusive, but good enough for me not to be concerned about it.
http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2013/12/first-study-to-examine-passive-vaping.html

 

[Recycled Roadkill]

As for taxing, I believe it was the early 1980's that, at least in Texas, state sales tax was added to the sale of cigarettes. The cigarettes were already taxed which was evident by the tax stamp on the bottom of each pack. So, we were not only paying for the cigarettes and the state tax stamp but then the state was also taxing the tax.

It may not be all about the tax but tax is sure a huge part of this. As far a tabacco sales go check my banner below. That's an honest assesment representing cigarettes bought in Oklahoma at about 50 bucks a carton (tax and all included) and smoked at the average rate of 45 cigarettes a day. I probably smoked more than that many in a day. (I saved in the neighborhood of 10 bucks a carton buying 'em in Oklahoma over buying in Texas and I'd buy 10 cartons each visit.

Multiply that number by who knows how many have totally quit cigarettes due to vaping and it's coming out to be a huge amount of money. How can government and the tobacco industry ever survive without that money?

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

I just ask because I see the majority of people touting that vaping is safer. I agree, it is safer than smoking, a lot less chemicals in it than in regular cigarette smoke. But, there have been few short-term studies done, and nothing long-term. How can we, as vapers, say with 100% certainty that vaping is safe?

Go find the posts by the guy who had the chest x-ray before and after vaping

 

[Jman8]

It looks like smoking. That's it. Can't get around it. If study after study said 2nd hand e-nic vapor were completely harmless, it would still be lumped in with smoking prohibitions, because it looks like smoking. Nothing else matters.

Which only bolsters the myth perspective.

It looks like smoking (if you are willing to ignore a whole lot of obvious difference) but is not smoking. Thus a myth is perpetuated.

Myth = widely held but false belief or idea

 

[zoiDman]

There is no basis to tax vaping. As a result, everyone who vapes is not being taxed.

...

That is All Changing. Being a Tobacco Product has it's Downfalls. Taxes being one of them.

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

I just ask because I see the majority of people touting that vaping is safer. I agree, it is safer than smoking, a lot less chemicals in it than in regular cigarette smoke. But, there have been few short-term studies done, and nothing long-term. How can we, as vapers, say with 100% certainty that vaping is safe?

Go find the posts by the guy who had the chest x-ray before and after vaping

Here...I'll help

Electronic Cigarette xray results

 

[Diogenes]

How about some links to people saying vaping is 100% safe, and that anyone who says differently is a trouble maker etc. If you can't provide the links, I can only conclude you have some ulterior motive for saying it.


As others have said, NOTHING is 100% safe. I don't know why you can't understand that.


Not conclusive, but good enough for me not to be concerned about it.
http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2013/12/first-study-to-examine-passive-vaping.html

I take it you haven't read many threads on the forums here. From the OP's original post :

And you wonder why most of us think it is an absurdity to see second hand vape as a public hazard in anyway, even in a tightly confined space?

To me, that says that second-hand vape is completely harmless, thus being 100% safe. I used reasoning and my brain to figure that one out.

Ok, I'll concede the point that people here might not use the "it's 100% safe." I have seen, however, people saying that it's completely safe, or it poses no public hazard in any way, etc, etc. It's semantics, really. To me, "completely safe," "poses no public hazard," is the same as being 100% safe.

As far as ulterior motives, again, have you been reading any of the threads with opposing viewpoints? Those with viewpoints that differ from the majority here, such as myself, are quickly labeled trouble makers, trolls, strawman, ANTZ, and at one point, bullies.

 

[Diogenes]

Go find the posts by the guy who had the chest x-ray before and after vaping

What does a chest x-ray have to do with lung function?

Electronic Cigarettes Harm The Lungs - Medical News Today

 

[bluecat]

There is no basis to tax vaping. As a result, everyone who vapes is not being taxed.

The tobacco industry is the most heavily taxed industry. 80 percent of the cost of a pack of cigarettes is tax in one way or the other. The tax is justified because smoking is harmful.... The government makes more profit on a pack of cigarettes sold in the US than the tobacco company themselves.

The problem is, the government does not have the justification to tax it. The more people vape, the less they smoke, and unlike quitting using NRT, e-cigs actually have the gall to be a more permanent solution.

I am pretty sure if the government could find a way to get their piece of the vaping industry, I'm sure we would hear how great it is. As it stands, we are costing them revenue.

Also, Big Tobacco is still very powerful. They have powerful allies in government. They are all about preserving their source of revenue. So it's not JUST about taxes.

Bah, no tax is justified that way. Heck look at the lawsuit by the states against big tobacco. The millions won by the states supposedly to go toward medicare costs. It is a load of garbage. one thing that drives me nuts is the vaporers that want to blame everything on big tobacco.

Smoking has been going on in one form or the other for how long? I am not going to look it up. Should I point to George Burns who smoked cigars for how long? How long did he live?

Yes, it is about taxes. Everything is about money. Anyone who disagrees, is living in a fantasy world or has too much money and posting on rich kids of instagram.


The guy is right... No long term studies of vaping are out there. We don't know the long term effects of vaping. We can speculate, but that is about it. You may as well combine them with man made global warming and the shredding of emails. That they did for the $'s too.

 

[zoiDman]

...

As far as ulterior motives, again, have you been reading any of the threads with opposing viewpoints? Those with viewpoints that differ from the majority here, such as myself, are quickly labeled trouble makers, trolls, strawman, ANTZ, and at one point, bullies.

I have seen this Many Times.

But hey, the ECF would be Pretty Boring if all we did was sit around Grip about things and Everyone Agreed with Everyone else.

 

[EddardinWinter]

I take it you haven't read many threads on the forums here. From the OP's original post :

To me, that says that second-hand vape is completely harmless, thus being 100% safe. I used reasoning and my brain to figure that one out.

Ok, I'll concede the point that people here might not use the "it's 100% safe." I have seen, however, people saying that it's completely safe, or it poses no public hazard in any way, etc, etc. It's semantics, really. To me, "completely safe," "poses no public hazard," is the same as being 100% safe.

As far as ulterior motives, again, have you been reading any of the threads with opposing viewpoints? Those with viewpoints that differ from the majority here, such as myself, are quickly labeled trouble makers, trolls, strawman, ANTZ, and at one point, bullies.

You think you have been talked to rudely on this thread? I don't see it. I see a healthy debate, in which you have made some fair points. DC has even conceded a point or two to you.

I have been called stupid, paranoid, extremist, an idiot, crazed, etc. for saying that I believe in public vaping. If you haven't been insulted on a forum, just hang around a bit!

I guess my issue is, the "vaping extremists are mean people" argument gets made all the time, and I grow weary of it. I just don't see it. I see P.opus, Jman, DC, Robino, and others posting in a respectful and fair way. Sure, there are a couple of posters from the "public vaping" crowd who are over-the-top. I bet I can match them poster-for-poster with members of the "vape only where permitted" crowd who are equally boorish and rude. The fact that someone is a proponent of public vaping does not make them any more likely to be rude.

Let's stick to what is happening in this thread, today, and not be victims of past rude behaviors.

 

[SissySpike]

I have seen this Many Times.

But hey, the ECF would be Pretty Boring if all we did was sit around Grip about things and Everyone Agreed with Everyone else.

This is not true the only people who disagree with the way I think the world should revolve are the unreasonable simple minded people who are wrong or have been brainwashed buy the same aliens controlling Washington!

 

[SissySpike]

You think you have been talked to rudely on this thread? I don't see it. I see a healthy debate, in which you have made some fair points. DC has even conceded a point or two to you.

I have been called stupid, paranoid, extremist, an idiot, crazed, etc. for saying that I believe in public vaping. If you haven't been insulted on a forum, just hang around a bit!

I guess my issue is, the "vaping extremists are mean people" argument gets made all the time, and I grow weary of it. I just don't see it. I see P.opus, Jman, DC, Robino, and others posting in a respectful and fair way. Sure, there are a couple of posters from the "public vaping" crowd who are over-the-top. I bet I can match them poster-for-poster with members of the "vape only where permitted" crowd who are equally boorish and rude. The fact that someone is a proponent of public vaping does not make them any more likely to be rude.

Let's stick to what is happening in this thread, today, and not be victims of past rude behaviors.

He He Captain Justice is alive and well ;-)

 

[EddardinWinter]

He He Captain Justice is alive and well ;-)

You got me there. I see a digital rendering of CAPTAIN JUSTICE! in our near-future!

 

[zoiDman]

This is not true the only people who disagree with the way I think the world should revolve are the unreasonable simple minded people who are wrong or have been brainwashed buy the same aliens controlling Washington!

Yeah... Those Damn Aliens sure have Mucked things up.

I curse the Person who First Invented intergalactic travel via a Distortion of the Time/Space Continuum.