The problem with electronic cigarettes...

[Equilibrium]

I haven't read everyone's replies but, I don't think you have a full grasp on the whole dopamine reward system. I'v studied the subject quite a bit.

Yes you may have a very slight increase in dopamine and serotonin at the thought of smoking or vaping BUT the real "spike" in both chemicals occurs when another chemical is introduced into the body.... nicotine.

 

[olie]

Its essentially the difference between having cooked meals or collecting food once or twice a day to snack on all day.

 

[bman1977]

I've been vaping now for almost a year. The hobby aspect is definitely starting to come to me now. Before it was all about addiction and repalcing analogs but i'm now seeing the otherside to this whole experience.

 

[Vaslovik]

If cigarettes are like cooking then eating a pizza.

Non sequitur.

vaping is like eating a pre cooked pizza that is always in arms reach that regenerates after each bite for a few hours.

My vape is nothing like a pre-cooked pizza, although I imagine I could come up with that flavor in my DIY efforts if pressed hard enough.

For some i could see your visceral emotional response with not having an infinite pizza anymore...

I think you are mistaking one visceral reaction for another. The visceral reaction I see here is one in which people don't like being told how they should vape, or otherwise run their lives, or being told they are motivated by something they are not, and being told they have a problem they don't.

 

[olie]

I haven't read everyone's replies but, I don't think you have a full grasp on the whole dopamine reward system. I'v studied the subject quite a bit.

Yes you may have a very slight increase in dopamine and serotonin at the thought of smoking or vaping BUT the real "spike" in both chemicals occurs when another chemical is introduced into the body.... nicotine.

Please look at this post in particular http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...lem-electronic-cigarettes-3.html#post13359134

I agree a spike comes from the nicotine which is one of the brilliant things about e-cigs. However the other spikes are important too otherwise nicotine inhalers and the like would be just as successful as cigarettes.

 

[olie]

Non sequitur.



My vape is nothing like a pre-cooked pizza, although I imagine I could come up with that flavor in my DIY efforts if pressed hard enough.




I think you are mistaking one visceral reaction for another. The visceral reaction I see here is one in which people don't like being told how they should vape, or otherwise run their lives, or being told they are motivated by something they are not, and being told they have a problem they don't.

If you don't like my idea, i'm not forcing you to try it. Where have i said everyone must do this? I simply suggested it as an option and something that might help select people. If you would like to discredit my idea i suggest you explain why that's a non sequitur and don't intentionally dodge it with things like "My vape is nothing like a pre-cooked pizza, although I imagine I could come up with that flavor in my DIY efforts if pressed hard enough." Unless you seriously think that's my point then i apologize and will try to re state what i've said.

 

[Equilibrium]

In my case, a lot of it had to do with habit and convenience. Until "modern e-cigs/PV's" came about it was a lot easier to stop at the gas station and pick up a pack of smokes and it was a lot more satisfying too. Things are changing with the modern equipment though. And don't forget the 25 year habit either. That's hard to quit.

 

[Vaslovik]

Please look at this post in particular http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...lem-electronic-cigarettes-3.html#post13359134

I agree a spike comes from the nicotine which is one of the brilliant things about e-cigs. However the other spikes are important too otherwise nicotine inhalers and the like would be just as successful as cigarettes.

Well if you have such a problem with electronic cigarettes as to so persistently post about it here why don't you just stop using them? You are certainly free to do that, just as the rest of us are free to continue with them. You seem to have focused on something you don't like about them, which doesn't occur to the rest of us, and if it bothers you so, just quit. Problem solved.

 

[Vaslovik]

If you don't like my idea, i'm not forcing you to try it. Where have i said everyone must do this? I simply suggested it as an option and something that might help select people. If you would like to discredit my idea i suggest you explain why that's a non sequitur...

Read your sentence over. It says...

If cigarettes are like cooking then eating a pizza.

Please tell me how that sentence makes any sense.

 

[olie]

Well if you have such a problem with electronic cigarettes as to so persistently post about it here why don't you just stop using them? You are certainly free to do that, just as the rest of us are free to continue with them. You seem to have focused on something you don't like about them, which doesn't occur to the rest of us, and if it bothers you so, just quit. Problem solved.

My natural tendency is to come up with ideas improve everything i come into contact with (even if i have to fight through a horde of criticism) than accept everything as is, are you saying electronic cigarettes are as good as they will ever be?

You've already quoted one post that said this would help them. At this point i think you're deliberately trying to provoke me, good day to you ma'am.

 

[TheColdHandedVG]

Puff limiter or puff counter? I'm not talking about a limiting the toke time like someone else mentioned above.

The point is to have a signal for the start and end of smoking, something like 50 vapes then a button to click several times to re activate it would work just as well.

It already exists. Look up the Evic Supreme. I am using it now....

 

[olie]

Read your sentence over. It says...



Please tell me how that sentence makes any sense.

It's not literal. Sorry i miss-spoke again by simile i meant to say it's an analogy. The analogy is to the habitual practise, not the flavour or anything else.

 

[olie]

It already exists. Look up the Evic Supreme. I am using it now....

I will look into that, thank you.

 

[Fisheeboy]

Just thought I'd do some usual chain vaping and enjoy some popcorn while I watch the show.
ECF has a way of getting my dopamine flowing. And if I leave it idle for to long it logs me off. It's a bit annoying. I would really dislike it if my APV logged me off too.

 

[olie]

Just thought I'd do some usual chain vaping and enjoy some popcorn while I watch the show.
ECF has a way of getting my dopamine flowing. And if I leave it idle for to long it logs me off. It's a bit annoying. I would really dislike it if my APV logged me off too.

That's actually an interesting point because the community aspect of it can bond people which releases oxytocin which in high enough doses can interact with dopamine to lessen addiction.

 

[Vaslovik]

My natural tendency is to come up with ideas improve everything i come into contact with (even if i have to fight through a horde of criticism) than accept everything as is, are you saying electronic cigarettes are as good as they will ever be?

You've already quoted one post that said this would help them. At this point i think you're deliberately trying to provoke me, good day to you ma'am.

And I asked how it would help, I've not gotten any answer. I think your post really should have been titled "MY problem with electronic cigarettes." It's certainly not a common problem in the vaping community that I've heard, and in fact I'd never heard of it until today. It's not a problem for me, and were it at all a significant problem we doubtless would have heard of it before your post. If you can improve your own vaping experience acting on your ideas then more power to you.

 

[Equilibrium]

I had to learn this the hard way - "When the fear of continued use outweighs the fear of quitting, you will quit"

I was addicted the the most powerful chemical know to release dopamine. The chemical structure is so close to dopamine that the receptors in the brain confuse the two and said chemical will actually bind itself to the receptors. In addition to that, the chemical also shuts off the reuptake of dopamine and after a period of time the brain just shuts off the dopamine receptors making them inactive and eventually the the surplus dopamine you have dies out. It took 7 years after I quit for my brain chemistry to balance out and for me to start feeling somewhat normal again.

 

[TheColdHandedVG]

Here's an simile to what i'm saying

If cigarettes are like cooking then eating a pizza.

vaping is like eating a pre cooked pizza that is always in arms reach that regenerates after each bite for a few hours.

For some i could see your visceral emotional response with not having an infinite pizza anymore but for others miss the waiting for the pizza to cook (waiting for when they feel they need a cigarette rather than vaping throughout the day randomly) cutting the pizza into sections, taking the first bite and being able to finish the pizza and feel that "ahhh" feeling.

I see your point, but this is a somewhat inappropriate comparison. You are comparing two different scenarios using the same exact object. Vaping and smoking cigarettes are completely different.

Here is the issue. There is no exact vapor to analog smoke ratio established. If you wanted to create a device that would limit a users puffs to equal the exact nic absorption as a cigarette, you would need to establish constants for multiple variables. The device would also need to fire for an exact amount of time with no variation, know the exact cigarettes you used to smoke, and know personal things such as body weight to calculate how much nic is needed. Bio-availability between the two different delivery forms, and more importantly, the exact amount entering the blood stream per hit and how this absorbed nic reacts in the body over a certain period of time, lets say 5 minutes for arguments sake. One person hitting an ecig might need to take 50 hits in 10min and 20 in 20 minutes for someone else to get the same effect.

My point is, this is all about knowing your limits and having self control. There is no end-all established data due to variations in different people. New users need to figure out what satisfies them, and at that point try to control their vaping. Your idea, in my opinion, would do nothing but result in frustration and non-satisfied users or over consumption because the device is telling them what to do.

EDIT: Also, by your suggestion and comments, it seems that you never experienced a time where you needed more than 1 cigarette in a sitting to satisfy you? Or a full cigarette was too much so you put it out before it was finished? Everyone is different and no device can factor in all the variables. Sometimes I would smoke 3 cigarettes in a row before I was satisfied, sometimes I couldn't handle more than half of one. I don't think there is a person in the world that would smoke exactly one cigarette to exactly the same point every single time they have one. It's just not realistic in real-world scenarios.

 

[olie]

And I asked how it would help, I've not gotten any answer. I think your post really should have been titled "MY problem with electronic cigarettes." It's certainly not a common problem in the vaping community that I've heard, and in fact I'd never heard of it until today. It's not a problem for me, and were it at all a significant problem we doubtless would have heard of it before your post. If you can improve your own vaping experience acting on your ideas then more power to you.

I've explained several times at this point, the main benefit being to people transitioning over. It's not a problem for you because you've found other coping mechanisms to get your dopamine fix. As most say they've turned it into a hobby which can account for what i'm saying, or they chain vape to consume more nicotine to make up for the loss in dopamine which has been discussed before; the nicotine itself increases dopamine. I'm losing my patience so i will leave it here. Thank you for the discussion, i will be trying what i mentioned earlier to try and increase my satisfaction. I will let people know how i get on.

 

[USRN2016]

That was a aside, based on what others have said, yeah there is a problem with chain vaping in the community. Stop being bolligerant for no reason, i'm trying to suggest something that will help everyone. Nicotine is addictive yes but the habit of smoking is addictive too - that's why vaping helps so many people compared to inhalers and the like, the closer we get it to smoking the easier the transition will be for everyone.

I don't have any ejuice with nicotine. Therefore I don't have any health concerns with chain vaping. I never used ejuice with nicotine, I just quit and started vaping without it. Your statements are not relevant to everyone.