Bill, I tried DK-Tab for the first time not too long ago, while Ikenvape was out of RY4 and I thought the same thing! They are very similar! I love them both!
The Really Big RY4 Roundup (long)
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Bill, I tried DK-Tab for the first time not too long ago, while Ikenvape was out of RY4 and I thought the same thing! They are very similar! I love them both!
while i havent vaped all the eliquids on the list, i will say that NiteLiteVapors Renegade RY4 is fantastic! with great throat hit(24mg) and wonderful vapor! in fact im not sure it can get any better than this! i was very supprised for it to be as good as it was. if the juices in your top 5 are better than NLVs ill need to order it by the truck load! haha. i do have some Dekang RY4 that also came in the mail today so ill have to give that a shot to see how it compares.
after a week or so of steeping the Gourmet Vapor RY4 i have is a little better but still not very good. its lost the strong chemical taste but still tastes like artificial caramel w/ a very bad tobacco flavor. my favorite vapes are tobacco flavors so its not like im put off by the taste of tobacco flavors. as we all know taste is subjective but thats my view on it anyways.
billherbst:
if you have had a chance to try the gourmetvapor RY4 i would love to hear your take on it. im sure you can describe it better than i can!
after a week or so of steeping the Gourmet Vapor RY4 i have is a little better but still not very good. its lost the strong chemical taste but still tastes like artificial caramel w/ a very bad tobacco flavor. my favorite vapes are tobacco flavors so its not like im put off by the taste of tobacco flavors. as we all know taste is subjective but thats my view on it anyways.
billherbst:
if you have had a chance to try the gourmetvapor RY4 i would love to hear your take on it. im sure you can describe it better than i can!
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the Dekang RY4 is pretty much as you describe it. very good juice and a worthy RY4 for sure. i will have to object to the fact it is ranked higher on the list than NLV Renegade RY4 though. they are very different and i appreciate that but to me they arent even in the same league.
on my made up short list, like yours for example, i would likely leave the Dekang around where it is but the NLV is in the top 5 for me (assuming your top 5 are this good). until i try a more variations of RY4 im actually going to put it at the top of the RY4s ive tried. in fact i would even go so far to say i put it at the top of the juices i have tried period. for now this will likely be my all day vape.
again thank you for this great list you have made! i believe its one of the better threads ive read on ECF and thats saying a lot. well done!
on my made up short list, like yours for example, i would likely leave the Dekang around where it is but the NLV is in the top 5 for me (assuming your top 5 are this good). until i try a more variations of RY4 im actually going to put it at the top of the RY4s ive tried. in fact i would even go so far to say i put it at the top of the juices i have tried period. for now this will likely be my all day vape.
again thank you for this great list you have made! i believe its one of the better threads ive read on ECF and thats saying a lot. well done!
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NLV's Renegade taste like roasted nuts and tobacco to me. It has no caramel or vanilla taste that my taste buds can detect(tried it in both a LR boge carto and 1.8 cisco atty at all voltages). I would go as far to say its not an RY4 except in name. It is not sweet like their site says and taste is super mild, I would NOT order another bottle of it. I do like NLV's Bounty Hunter and Saddle Up but not this.
i really get authentic carmel taste. how weird. to me the main flavor to me is carame followed by Vanilla(kinda similar to Bounty Hunter) and then tobacco. sorry you dont feel as strongly about NLVs Renegade RY4 as i do. i will agree Bounty hunter and Saddle up a really good as though.
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M-Factor,
My Gourmet Vapor RY4 arrived. I tried it. I'm putting off the review/ranking in the hope that steeping will improve it, but more truly because I don't like writing negative reviews. Soon, though, within a week. Glad you like the NLV Renegade---it's not my particular cup of tea (but I sure do lovelovelove NLV Bounty Hunter).
I am still waiting on my BWB's RY4. Day 15 and not there yet. I did buy some Taboo from LiquidXpress in classies. Should be here Friday. The OzarkFresh RY4 is coming alive (finally) at day 30. In a dual coil at 4.4volts, it is very good. My PV4 is down to 5ml, and I missed their July 4th sale. Joogler Juice's Joogler's Blend is climbing into a favorite of the clean, dry RY4s. And I have buried three other RY4s in the back of my stash, hoping they improve, but doubt it.
But my favorite is still the caramel rich QuicknicJuice RY4. Day 26 and it just keeps getting better. It is probably nothing like the original. It is a rich, full flavor. The tobacco is woody (if you have tried Vermillion River, you know what I mean). The vanilla and caramel are delicious. Real quality ingredients. Of the ones I have tried, none are close to this good. My taste buds like the sweet caramel and woody tobacco, but YMMV.
And a side note, I do like the Bounty Hunter. It is Captain Crunch meets Vanilla Wafer. I may have to go for NLV's nutty RY4 next order, even if it isn't quite RY4 worthy.
But my favorite is still the caramel rich QuicknicJuice RY4. Day 26 and it just keeps getting better. It is probably nothing like the original. It is a rich, full flavor. The tobacco is woody (if you have tried Vermillion River, you know what I mean). The vanilla and caramel are delicious. Real quality ingredients. Of the ones I have tried, none are close to this good. My taste buds like the sweet caramel and woody tobacco, but YMMV.
And a side note, I do like the Bounty Hunter. It is Captain Crunch meets Vanilla Wafer. I may have to go for NLV's nutty RY4 next order, even if it isn't quite RY4 worthy.
Just received my bottle of Quick Nic RY4 today. I suppose I should wait for steeping but I tried a couple drops just because. Bear in mind, the only other RY4 I've tried is BWB.
It's very sweet. With strong caramel and nutty flavors. I tasted very little vanilla or tobacco. All in all, very good and I'm looking forward to seeing how it ages. Thanks for the tip and the thread Billherbst!
It's very sweet. With strong caramel and nutty flavors. I tasted very little vanilla or tobacco. All in all, very good and I'm looking forward to seeing how it ages. Thanks for the tip and the thread Billherbst!
i totally agree about not wanting to write a bad review. trust me i wanted to like the juice and even gave it the benifit of the doubt that steeping would make it better. while it did it still isnt for me. thats not to say someone else might not love it but i dont. i look forward to your take on it, good or bad.
my wife does love gourmetvapors raz cotton candy though. in fact thats the only juice ive been able to get her to vape. she is VERY picky.
still,
Since yours is the second post that asserts a common lineage, I figured I'd better look into this. Got out my 50ml bottle of Madvapes Dekang pre-mix DK-TAB (an acronym for Dekang Turkish-American Blend, same juice as the Dekang pre-mix sold by numerous vendors under the name Blended Tab) from the juice cellar and drip-compared it head-to-head with Ikenvape RY4 Gold (PG blend). Surprisingly, almost shockingly, I have admit that my taste buds do indeed detect something of a similar lean to both juices.
DK-TAB is essentially a straight tobacco blend with some nuttiness---not so much as a 555, but definite. It's also sold as a flavoring concentrate, and is used in many retail and DIY juice recipes when tobacco is called for. Ikenvape RY4 Gold has a tobacco and nut flavor that parallels DK-TAB. I don't know if IKV RY4 actually uses DK-TAB for its tobacco base or some combination of other tobaccos and nut that ends up tasting similar. But IKV RY4 also has the caramel and vanilla, plus the inherent sweetness provided by those two flavors (not that I would call IKV a "sweet" RY4, just one that has a bit of sweetness).
The tobacco in IKV Gold is not quite as forward as in DK-TAB, which is as one would expect, given two main flavors versus four. DK-TAB is like watching Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers. IKV RY4 Gold is a more akin to The Flying Karamazov Brothers (assuming you know who they are...).
I don't think I'd mistake one for the other, but danged if you and Steve414 aren't onto something here. Leaves me in a bit of a quandry. While DK-TAB is certainly good, it's a workingman's tobacco flavor---basic and fairly common throughout the marketplace. Ikenvape RY4 Gold, on the other hand, is supposed to be The Return of the Holy Grail, the ultimate brought-back-to-life-from-the-dead classic, original RY4. And, yes, it's really good. BUT, if Ikenvape RY4 Gold tastes exactly like DK-TAB to Steve414 or even similar to DK-TAB for you and me, does it deserve to be ranked #1 on my list? I mean, Top 10 for sure, but the very best RY4 of all? I don't know, and now my certainty is shaken.
I'm gonna have to chew on this one awhile.
This is quite an amazing thread. It got me to try RY4 Again (couldn't stand whatever"brands" I had tried) and I am now a true fan. Billerbst -- what a great hobbie--keep it up.
I really like your descriptions and am happy to say that after I read them, I can start identifying the flavors and nuances. That is very useful!
I don't have a #1 yet----but I do have a few I'll add to my arsenal!
Best is always in the eye of the beholder----and today I'd like more nutty, tomorrow more sweet, etc. I never want it like that first one I had!
Would be great if someone could be adventurous enough to do this with other well used flavors----like "Coyboy" or "Cool".
I really like your descriptions and am happy to say that after I read them, I can start identifying the flavors and nuances. That is very useful!
I don't have a #1 yet----but I do have a few I'll add to my arsenal!
Best is always in the eye of the beholder----and today I'd like more nutty, tomorrow more sweet, etc. I never want it like that first one I had!
Would be great if someone could be adventurous enough to do this with other well used flavors----like "Coyboy" or "Cool".
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Received some Volt cartos yesterday, prefilled with RY4. I normally vape Ikenvape RY4, which I agree is the best I've tried. However, the Volt cartos are amazingly close (to my taste buds anyway). Anyone else tried the RY4 prefilled Volt cartos?
Back in stock today, that was quick! Plus a 10% off coupon with HAPPY4TH (CAPS LOCK REQUIRED).
I can say with certainty that the original RY4 hand NO nutty flavor to it all. So any RY4 that has a nutty taste is not close to the original. The original was a smooth tobacco with subtle carmal and vanilla untertones that you could definitely taste. What I would call a "light" sweetness" to it, not overpowering. That's why many of us find the Janty classic RY4 the closes to the original.
I wasn't vaping when the "original" Dekang RY4 formula was available, so I have no personal experience in memory of what that juice tasted like. I do have some thoughts related to it, however.
Running throughout this thread is a supposition---at times supported but just as often ignored---that Dekang's "original" and now mythic RY4 is the Gold Standard against which all present and future RY4s should be judged. Here's the question I would pose to all of us who follow this thread: Is that true? Is the "best" RY4 the one that recreates or most closely approximates that "original" RY4?
On one side is the idea of standards. Few people would disagree that standards are important, whether as basic values or as measurement benchmarks. Tradition recognizes the importance of standards and their maintenance. It's the difference between "real money" and "counterfeit money" (but don't get me started on THAT one, given what the banksters have done to us over the past century). True conservatives hold that real standards are permanent and unchanging. Truth, Apple Pie, Motherhood, The Family---these are to many sacred standards for assessing moral/ethical and even pragmatic goodness. By having an absolute standard, one can make accurate judgments about the relative worth of different things.
Can you just slap together any concoction of flavors you want and call it RY4? Well, no, not really. Or maybe you can, but if your RY4 is composed of lemongrass, burnt apple, and bacon flavors, people will almost certainly react by saying, "What the hell is that? It's sure not RY4!"
So, on this first side of the argument, wv2win's post asserting that the now-lost original Dekang RY4 had no nut flavor at all is both significant and meaningful. He is functioning as a true conservative, reminding us of the "timeless" standards and absolute values that make RY4 what it is (and perhaps, depending on one's temperament, what it "should" be).
On the other side, however, consider almost any organized endeavor you know---from NCAA football to Modern Dance to Theoretical Physics. Do the rules and standards---however sacred they may be to some people---remain the same over time? No, they don't. The NCAA and NFL (or NBA and MLB) routinely change the rules of their sports (literally every year). Football now bears little resemblance to the gridiron of Red Grange or even Johny Unitas. For two centuries, Ballet was locked in as the only "acceptable" art-form of high-culture dance (folk dances were considered low-brow), until rebels such as Isadora Duncan and Mary Wigman came along in the early 20th century to blow that class-based, stuffy presumption out of the water. Many varieties and approaches are now considered perfectly valid in the art of bodily movement, yet all fall under the heading of Dance. Newtonian physics was the end-all, be-all understanding in science of how our universe is assembled and works, until Einstein, Planck, et al, came along with quantum mechanics to say, "Uh, wait a minute, folks..."
At this level of the argument, who cares what the original RY4 tasted like? It's gone. And even if it weren't, a thriving and expanding marketplace is bending, reshaping, and pushing out the limits to what an RY4 is or could be---refining, improving, and re-defining---based on sales and customer feedback. If you create a better RY4, will the world not beat a path to your door? In the tenets of small-business capitalism, you betcha.
But Bill, doesn't the very name "RY4" refer back to the ultimate standard of Dekang's Ruyan #4? Well, sure, but RY4 is now used in much the same way that people use the term "kleenex" to refer to any brand of facial tissue, or "Coke" to refer to all fizzy cola soft drinks. I don't know if the brand name "RY4" was trademarked by Dekang, but even if it was, in this marketplace that trademark is meaningless, since it's impossible to enforce.
So, in the counter-argument, RY4 becomes whatever the marketplace says it is---whatever WE say it is. Period. End of story. If wv2win asserts that RY4 should have no nuttiness, but I like RY4s that do, then we are simply in competition about either maintaining classic standards or revising them to suit changing tastes in an evolving marketplace. Inevitably, however, the standards will change over time, however much that is bemoaned by some as diluting or perverting our values.
As to which stance is "correct," I haven't a clue and would feel silly to pronounce one right and the other wrong.
I do happen to feel that the world is big enough to allow both points of view, despite their seeming contradiction. In fact, reality needs both perspectives. That's the Yin/Yang of the Tao.
Running throughout this thread is a supposition---at times supported but just as often ignored---that Dekang's "original" and now mythic RY4 is the Gold Standard against which all present and future RY4s should be judged. Here's the question I would pose to all of us who follow this thread: Is that true? Is the "best" RY4 the one that recreates or most closely approximates that "original" RY4?
On one side is the idea of standards. Few people would disagree that standards are important, whether as basic values or as measurement benchmarks. Tradition recognizes the importance of standards and their maintenance. It's the difference between "real money" and "counterfeit money" (but don't get me started on THAT one, given what the banksters have done to us over the past century). True conservatives hold that real standards are permanent and unchanging. Truth, Apple Pie, Motherhood, The Family---these are to many sacred standards for assessing moral/ethical and even pragmatic goodness. By having an absolute standard, one can make accurate judgments about the relative worth of different things.
Can you just slap together any concoction of flavors you want and call it RY4? Well, no, not really. Or maybe you can, but if your RY4 is composed of lemongrass, burnt apple, and bacon flavors, people will almost certainly react by saying, "What the hell is that? It's sure not RY4!"
So, on this first side of the argument, wv2win's post asserting that the now-lost original Dekang RY4 had no nut flavor at all is both significant and meaningful. He is functioning as a true conservative, reminding us of the "timeless" standards and absolute values that make RY4 what it is (and perhaps, depending on one's temperament, what it "should" be).
On the other side, however, consider almost any organized endeavor you know---from NCAA football to Modern Dance to Theoretical Physics. Do the rules and standards---however sacred they may be to some people---remain the same over time? No, they don't. The NCAA and NFL (or NBA and MLB) routinely change the rules of their sports (literally every year). Football now bears little resemblance to the gridiron of Red Grange or even Johny Unitas. For two centuries, Ballet was locked in as the only "acceptable" art-form of high-culture dance (folk dances were considered low-brow), until rebels such as Isadora Duncan and Mary Wigman came along in the early 20th century to blow that class-based, stuffy presumption out of the water. Many varieties and approaches are now considered perfectly valid in the art of bodily movement, yet all fall under the heading of Dance. Newtonian physics was the end-all, be-all understanding in science of how our universe is assembled and works, until Einstein, Planck, et al, came along with quantum mechanics to say, "Uh, wait a minute, folks..."
At this level of the argument, who cares what the original RY4 tasted like? It's gone. And even if it weren't, a thriving and expanding marketplace is bending, reshaping, and pushing out the limits to what an RY4 is or could be---refining, improving, and re-defining---based on sales and customer feedback. If you create a better RY4, will the world not beat a path to your door? In the tenets of small-business capitalism, you betcha.
But Bill, doesn't the very name "RY4" refer back to the ultimate standard of Dekang's Ruyan #4? Well, sure, but RY4 is now used in much the same way that people use the term "kleenex" to refer to any brand of facial tissue, or "Coke" to refer to all fizzy cola soft drinks. I don't know if the brand name "RY4" was trademarked by Dekang, but even if it was, in this marketplace that trademark is meaningless, since it's impossible to enforce.
So, in the counter-argument, RY4 becomes whatever the marketplace says it is---whatever WE say it is. Period. End of story. If wv2win asserts that RY4 should have no nuttiness, but I like RY4s that do, then we are simply in competition about either maintaining classic standards or revising them to suit changing tastes in an evolving marketplace. Inevitably, however, the standards will change over time, however much that is bemoaned by some as diluting or perverting our values.
As to which stance is "correct," I haven't a clue and would feel silly to pronounce one right and the other wrong.
I do happen to feel that the world is big enough to allow both points of view, despite their seeming contradiction. In fact, reality needs both perspectives. That's the Yin/Yang of the Tao.
To me I view most things from China as cheap products. All the juices coming out of China are mass produced using the cheapest of ingredients. That does not mean they taste bad, but for me I want a safe juice, better tasting with more flavor and made in the USA.
If the original flavor RY4 was still around do folks still think it would be considered the BEST RY4 with todays standards? I don't believe so otherwise there would be other China juices that would be at the top of the list.
I would support a better version of RY4 and if adding a nutty flavor to it made it taste better but still maintained the tobacco,caramel and vanilla base I am all for it. Call it US4 if you want.
Of course if you are a purist and don't mind paying $25 for Janty then it looks like your search is over, you have found THE ONE. I don't mind paying up to $17-18 for USA made better tasting juice but wont ever pay $25 for China juice.
I don't think this thread was called "Who makes the closest RY4 to the original" and its not needed because I don't think anybody disagrees that Janty is the closest to it since most of us have never even tried it. It is however rating all the different versions, breaking down the taste of it and letting us decide individually which ones to spend our money on. At least that's my take on it and I have been following this thread since the first post.
If the original flavor RY4 was still around do folks still think it would be considered the BEST RY4 with todays standards? I don't believe so otherwise there would be other China juices that would be at the top of the list.
I would support a better version of RY4 and if adding a nutty flavor to it made it taste better but still maintained the tobacco,caramel and vanilla base I am all for it. Call it US4 if you want.
Of course if you are a purist and don't mind paying $25 for Janty then it looks like your search is over, you have found THE ONE. I don't mind paying up to $17-18 for USA made better tasting juice but wont ever pay $25 for China juice.
I don't think this thread was called "Who makes the closest RY4 to the original" and its not needed because I don't think anybody disagrees that Janty is the closest to it since most of us have never even tried it. It is however rating all the different versions, breaking down the taste of it and letting us decide individually which ones to spend our money on. At least that's my take on it and I have been following this thread since the first post.
Interesting ideas. I never vaped original, so I don't have a horse in that race, though I can appreciate those who did and why they'd want to compare to it. Frankly, I'm not even that concerned with RY4 or not RY4, to me that isn't the question. I simply like good juices and frankly don't care what they're called or labelled. I've tried close to 200 different juices in under 4 months of vaping and have found many juices that I like and I've done that mostly by reading lots of posts and figuring out which juices I should probably try. Usually it's when the same juice comes up from posters that I concur with regarding their thoughts on other juices.
Not that I don't like RY4, in many it's various iterations available today, nor am I opposed to trying what others say is closest to the original. But when all's said and done, I'll drip it and either like the juice or not and that's all I really care about.
Not that I don't like RY4, in many it's various iterations available today, nor am I opposed to trying what others say is closest to the original. But when all's said and done, I'll drip it and either like the juice or not and that's all I really care about.
Ceegary,
Yes. As someone famous (I can't remember who) once said about music: "Finally, it's all ear candy. Either you like it or you don't."
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