The Really Big RY4 Roundup (long)

[billherbst]

Five new formulations of Skydancer (Version 6 through Version 10) have been going through daily testing over the past four days. I've narrowed the field down to the final two (v7 and v10).

Both versions use different flavorings than the v2b from the first batch. Gone are Lorann Naturals Creamy Caramel and Capella French Vanilla. In their place are Nature's Flavors Organic flavorings: NF Caramel, NF Bavarian Cream, and/or NF French Vanilla. The only major decision left to make is whether to mix for a 50/50 PG/VG ratio or a nearly-all VG base. Only the 2% of Lorann's Tart and Sour (which is citric and malic acid dissolved in PG) prevents the the second mix from being 100% VG, all-natural, and mostly Organic (whatever that means). So that mix is about 99% VG, 1% PG. I'll decide over the next days which mix to use while waiting for my order to arrive with big 30ml bottles of Nature's Flavorings Caramel and Bavarian Cream, then I'll whip up the second batch---170ml this time (14 bottles of 10ml to send out and one 30ml bottle to keep in my stash).

Here's the likely recipe---not absolutely fixed yet for sure, but probably very close:

12.5% Skydancer NET
8.0% Nature's Flavors Caramel
3.0% Nature's Flavors Bavarian Cream
2.0% Nature's Flavors French Vanilla
2.0% Lorann Tart and Sour

I've decided also to make payment optional. That way, there's no crap about "Hey, I sent you a bottle of Skydancer RY4 and you didn't pay me." Each recipient can send whatever he or she chooses---$5 for the 10ml bottle and postage, $2 for just postage alone, or nothing at all. I figure I'll still get enough to cover the cost of the ingredients, and that's all I'm looking to recoup.

 

[RPadTV]

all-natural, and mostly Organic (whatever that means)

That means that vaping it is good for you, no?

Also, I now feel like a tool for only covering postage. I shall make it up to you in round two, should I be included. I really do appreciate what you're doing with Skydancer and this outstanding thread.

 

[clnire]

All the work you do for this thread and everything, you deserve payment.

 

[Sero]

We definitely appreciate what you do, Bill. Most of us will always be searching for that "perfect" RY4. Even though it's probably futile, it sure is fun to try different versions. It is even more fun to try RY4s created by someone who knows what a good RY4 tastes like.

I steeped my Skydancer in some warm water for awhile, and it seemed to change a little bit. I definitely get more caramel now even though the flavors of the vanilla caramel and marshmallow meld together. It is mouthwatering-ly good. I drip this juice now, as it does tend to gunk up in cartos and RBAs. After awhile in my carto it had a very analog like taste with no sweetness. Tasted almost exactly like one of those disposable blu cigs at that point. That's kind of interesting to me because that is a flavor many people have tried to recreate since it is only available in the blu cigs.

 

[billherbst]

Just so folks know, everyone who received a bottle of Skydancer RY4 from the first batch is on the list for the second batch.

I have felt a little uncertain about hijacking the thread with all the discussion around Skydancer RY4. This morning I had a new thought that makes me feel better. All the sharing about Skydancer RY4---my updates about formulations and recipe mixes, and the reactions/reviews by others---is in an odd sort of way our creating a window into the process of juice creation. That's something that most vapers never get to see, much less participate in. Most juices just appear in the retail marketplace as if by magic. Well, it's not magic. It's lots of work over a long period of time. Some vendors spend six months to a year developing a single juice blend.

What we're sharing on the thread is sort of the amateur co-op version of that process. Sure, I'm still the creator of the Skydancer RY4, in all its various versions, and I make the final decisions (like the good little dictator that I am, LOL), but people get to read about the process happening, step by step.

That might have some value, if only entertainment value.

 

[billherbst]

["all-natural, and mostly Organic"] means that vaping it is good for you, no?

Well, sort of. Maybe. Perhaps.

"All-natural" and "Organic" are green buzzwords that have been co-opted by the food industry, especially in terms of their precise definitions for purposes of certification. Wherever big money is at stake, politics intrudes, and with it, inevitable corruption.

I'd feel more comfortable saying, "Yes, it's good for you," except for one nagging item. To get the sour element in Skydancer, I have to use either citric acid or malic acid, or a combination of both (that's what Lorann Tart and Sour is). There is some discussion on ECF and elsewhere (I won't say evidence, for that implies more greater certainty than we have) about possible harmful effects on the lungs from the inhalation of vaporized acids, specifically malic acid, although I imagine that citric acid would be similar. Whether that's true or just urban myth, I don't know. The posts I've read strike me in much the same way as posts about the dangers of PG (propylene glycol). Until there's hard evidence---not just anecdotal, but systematic and well-tested---conclusions seem unwarranted, although I understand the position of vapers who choose to err on the side of safety, just in case.

 

[billherbst]

Correction:

In writing the post about the PG/VG mix for the second batch of Skydancer RY4, I momentarily forgot that the NET itself is 75% PG. The highest VG ratio I can achieve is therefore 10/90 PG/VG. Sorry about that. It was momentary brain damage.

I think I'll stick with 50/50 PG/VG and opt for better throat hit. LOL.

 

[clnire]

I find value not only in the various vendor reviews, but also your DIY efforts and reading reviews. I know it is an "art" and takes lots of trial and error to get something just right. As a hobby I tool and paint leather portraits of dogs. Took a lot of time to figure out what tools gave what effect, how hard to hammer, how to case the leather just right, then there are painting effects to get the hair right, well you get the idea. To get a recipe right takes lots of time, effort, mistakes, records, different combinations of different flavorings, again, you get the picture. It also requires knowing what you are trying to achieve. With your experience and all they RY4s and variants you have tried, I respect your opinion and efforts.

I like the higher VG content, was thinking 50/50 would be a good mix for taste, throat hit, vapor, all that stuff. Kind of neutral in the base department. I have trouble with high PG juices, for me higher VG is better, 50/50 works! Whatever you decide for the final base mix, I am looking forward to it!!

 

[DrewGrimey]

What are you're top "low price" Ry4s? ($13 and less per 30ml) Smokless image/Bloog are about the only A rank liquids that I can find for about $12 with coupon code

 

[billherbst]

What are you're top "low price" Ry4s? ($13 and less per 30ml) Smokless image/Bloog are about the only A rank liquids that I can find for about $12 with coupon code

Drew,

I don't have any info about prices. Oh, that's not totally true. My database has the amount I paid for every juice I've ever purchased, but that would be irrelevant for anyone shopping today, what with my having taken advantage of coupon codes, holiday and grand opening sales. That's the problem inherent with any pricing list--it wouldn't be stable or dependable.

You'll have to compile that list yourself by using the links on The Big RY4 List, which you may have already done.

$12 sounds about right for cheapest base price for an "A" or "A-" ranked RY4. Plus shipping, of course.

 

[RPadTV]

For anyone that has tried the various Janty RY4s -- I know Messrs Jerms and Billherbst have for sure -- I'd love to hear your comparisons. I've been dripping Classic, DK, and Elixir for the last few weeks. Right now I'm alternating between liking Classic and DK best. Elixir definitely tastes like it's in the same family, but right now I view it as a less talented relative -- not quite Frank Stallone territory, but not as enjoyable for me as the other two.

(Edit: I noticed Jerms gave his fine thoughts on them in another thread. Thanks!)

As for the RY4 variants, I'm really enjoying Ludo's. It's supposed to be RY4 + mint + coffee, but I'm not getting the coffee taste. That's fine with me because I'm enjoying everything else. The mint hits you on the inhale and is quickly followed by the DK RY4 taste, which is prevalent on the exhale. I thought I would like this one, but I'm enjoying it even more than I expected. As an added note, Janty Ludo actually vapes RY4 with mint himself.

RY4X I'm not sure about yet, because I've had the least of it. After a few dripping sessions, it tastes like a smokier and harsher versions of Classic RY4 to me. More time is required for all of these juices, but especially this one. I haven't wrapped my head around it yet.

(Double edit: I just read this fantastic post by Bill.)

 

[Jerms]

I'm interested in other people's takes on these too. I know Bill has a couple posts on this thread that he really went into detail on C, DK, and E from Jany that he can probably link to. I used those descriptions to decide which ones to try.

So far I'm only about 6ml in on the Classic RY4 and about 3ml in to the DK, so a ways to go before I can really wrap my head around them. Especially the DK, with the pronounced sour note that is so new to me. Each time I pick it up I like it a little more, but can only do it for a short session. The Classic I could probably vape up the rest of the bottle in a few days and enjoy. It grew on me quick and is just getting better. I'm sure I'll reorder it if I go back to try some others from Janty. Then again who knows, by the time the 20ml of each are gone I may be in love with DK and be tired of Classic. The buds of my taste can be fickle and unpredictable.

Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2

 

[RPadTV]

Here's a Goodejuice review I just posted, which includes the lovely GJ4. Out of all the new e-liquids I've tried this year, it's definitely in my top five. That said, GJ4 could be a bit much for longtime fans of synthetic RY4. For me, the tobacco was first and foremost. It's a bold and flavorful tobacco with that signature Goodejuice "funk" or "mustiness" that some people love and some people hate. Full text review and steeping notes here.

 

[billherbst]

As RPad states, GJ4 is primarily an NET tobacco juice, with the RY4 component not quite an afterthought, but definitely trailing, relegated to a supporting role. The caramel and vanilla are present, and unsullied by additional flavors (a decision I like), but there's no attempt at balancing the flavors. GJ4 isn't even remotely similar to a Classic RY4. It's a tobacco-dominant Custom RY4 all the way. That said, GJ4 uses a high-quality NET, typical for GoodEJuice's house-brewed NET line. The particular extract used---which is, to me, a cigarette-style tobacco rather than a pipe or cigar---has a nice rough-and-rugged impact, with a bit of grassiness and earthy peat, which distances GJ4 even further from the genre of Classic RY4 with its underplayed and neutral synthetic tobacco component.

For a vaper who wants the balance and unity of a Classic RY4, GJ4 is a terrible choice and right out. For an NET tobacco lover who also likes RY4, it just might be heaven.

 

[thehangdude]

I have been really liking Mr Vape's RY4 for the past couple weeks. It tastes like a classic RY4 with a custom tobacco. The smooth treble of vanilla and caramel is very "Chinese" in style. The tobacco, although not overboard, is gritty and flavorful. The blend is one I really like. Very smooth, but it has flavor.

I would like Bill to do another review of Mr Vape's RY4. The last review was when it was fresh. Mine has really blended together. At $13/30ml and options for big bottles, I may have found my new all-day RY4.

 

[billherbst]

I have been really liking Mr Vape's RY4 for the past couple weeks. It tastes like a classic RY4 with a custom tobacco. The smooth treble of vanilla and caramel is very "Chinese" in style. The tobacco, although not overboard, is gritty and flavorful. The blend is one I really like. Very smooth, but it has flavor.

I would like Bill to do another review of Mr Vape's RY4. The last review was when it was fresh. Mine has really blended together. At $13/30ml and options for big bottles, I may have found my new all-day RY4.

My original review of MrVape RY4 was almost exactly a year ago, so my 30ml bottle is well-steeped now. Seriously well-steeped. LOL. To my surprise, I didn't have a loaded carto of MrV RY4 in the 100-count RY4 ammo boxes on my desk, but then I remembered why. I'd taken that carto upstairs to my bedside an vaped it at night until the carto died. That was a long time ago, and I just never replaced the carto in the Garden-o'-RY4s on my desk. That accounts for why I haven't been comparison-vaping it.

All right, that's an easy fix. I just filled a new SmokTech 2.0 ohm LR510XL carto and gave MrVape the last remaining slot (hole, actually) in my RY4 ammo boxes. That still leaves another 20 RY4s out in the cold, but nothing's perfect, and most of those are lower rankings that I wouldn't comparison-vape anyway.

I wrote in my original review that MrVape RY4 danced back and forth across the line between Classic and Custom formulations, and that's still true. The hangdude's comments pretty much nail the change produced by long steeping: Now the flavors are melded into union, making the Classic lean even more pronounced. As he writes, the caramel-vanilla is very Chinese. Only the punchy tobacco keeps MrV RY4 from being considered Classic. Although the tobacco is synthetic, it has (as the Dude says) "grit and flavor." So, that's Custom, since the tobacco component in Classic is smooth and neutral.

MrV RY4 has always been ranked pretty high. Right now, it's in the B+ group. If you like, Dude, I'll kick it up a notch into the A- group. Just for you. Since it's your new all-day RY4, I presume you'd feel that an A- is merited, right?

 

[thehangdude]

Since it's your new all-day RY4, I presume you'd feel that an A- is merited, right?

I like the fact that it tastes good, is reasonably priced, and I can buy it in quantity. I just compared it to Tribeca (my classic RY4 of choice). The caramel/vanilla are very similiar. I like the tobacco of Mr Vape better.

Yes, I would say an A- is a fair grade. It is not easy to climb to the peak of your list.

 

[billherbst]

Yes, I would say an A- is a fair grade.

Done. The change will appear in the updated posts for The Big RY4 List later this month.

 

[clnire]

ooo I have a bottle of Mr Vape RY4 that is 1 week old steeping away. I think I will let it steep awhile longer before tasting...

 

[thehangdude]

*Discounts & Coupons*

Just as I was getting ready to order some more Mr Vape RY4, they have a B2G1 sale for Mother's Day!

I like the Black Honey Tobacco (honey tobacco with a hint of licorice) and Special Blend, but the Banana Bacco has that Runts Banana flavor I don't like.