The Really Big RY4 Roundup (long)

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lasttango

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great post...

taboo was my first love... and don't care for it anymore... I swear it changed!!! but rob swears it's back to the original formula... he would know right? been chasing that dragon for almost two years...

I has some dulcis, riskee and taboo transferred into 6ml bottles... this was several months ago... and I never labeled them... and I discovered they were indistinguishable... as were some halo/TW/eliquid planet essence and octane nHaler juices.
 

ckim111

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great post...

taboo was my first love... and don't care for it anymore... I swear it changed!!! but rob swears it's back to the original formula... he would know right? been chasing that dragon for almost two years...

I has some dulcis, riskee and taboo transferred into 6ml bottles... this was several months ago... and I never labeled them... and I discovered they were indistinguishable... as were some halo/TW/eliquid planet essence and octane nHaler juices.

This is why taste is so subjective. IMO halo tribecca tastes nothing like any ry4 out there :)
 

VaVaunt

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Well, not a review, but a definite 2 thumbs up to Vermillion River's Kentucky Premium Blend!
I've been vaping it straight for about a week now, and it is smooth, very tobacco-like, and full of flavor and TH. I'll definitely be ordering more of this stuff within the week-and going for the larger bottle this time! Very yummy! ;)
 

billherbst

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ckim,

I have to agree on this one. To me, Tribeca tastes like no other RY4. I just wish I didn't react so negatively to Halo's signature base (is that the taste of purity or hospital disinfectant?). Doesn't matter that I don't like it, though: Tribeca is obviously a very high-quality and well-made liquid.

That said, I'm completely with Last Tango about Dulcis, Taboo, and Riskee. Same same same, basically, with only slight differences in mix ratios and concentrate flavors. Maybe not perfect clones, but much closer to identical triplets than ordinary siblings.
 

billherbst

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Well, not a review, but a definite 2 thumbs up to Vermillion River's Kentucky Premium Blend!
I've been vaping it straight for about a week now, and it is smooth, very tobacco-like, and full of flavor and TH. I'll definitely be ordering more of this stuff within the week-and going for the larger bottle this time! Very yummy! ;)

SmokinGee,

I happen to agree with you that Kentucky Premium is terrific, but are you suggesting that it's an RY4, or do you just post this on every thread?
 

thehangdude

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Well, not a review, but a definite 2 thumbs up to Vermillion River's Kentucky Premium Blend!
I've been vaping it straight for about a week now, and it is smooth, very tobacco-like, and full of flavor and TH. I'll definitely be ordering more of this stuff within the week-and going for the larger bottle this time! Very yummy! ;)

SmokinGee,

I happen to agree with you that Kentucky Premium is terrific, but are you suggesting that it's an RY4, or do you just post this on every thread?

I also agree, wholeheartedly. I just wish he would take his Vanilla Blend and create an RY4 for us. I (and others) have approached him on his thread about this issue. He has not refused the idea, but he is unsure what an RY4 is suppose to taste like.

Hell dang, I have tried 20 RY4s, and I don't know what they are suppose to taste like. I like them dessert sweet, and I like them tobacco heavy. I like RY4s with nuts and without nuts. Come on Gus, give billherbst another RY4 to review!
 

thehangdude

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I asked Dave at Vermillion River to create an RY4 type juice with his Vanilla Blend. Well see what happens!

Back on 9/12/11, in his thread we discussed him making an RY4. You were there wigglr, do you remember? Several people stated that his Kentucky Premium is very much like an RY4.

After reading this, I got out my carto filled will Premium, and, you know, it is pretty darn similar to an RY4. And considering the wonderfulness and variety of the Premium line, an RY4 might not be completely necessary (not that I wouldn't be knocking on your door and begging for a gallon if you made one).

This goes to show where SmokinGee was coming from. I have had flavors that call themselves RY4 but don't come as close. At the time though, Gus (Dave) didn't really know what RY4 tasted like. Several members offered to send him some samples (myself included), but I have no idea if he received any, as he never replied.

I've been told its our version of a RY4 but have never really had any to compare it to.

If he does decide to create a Vermillion River's RY4 (VR4?), I would love to have some of it!
 

passerbyeus

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I have sent Bill a question about 5. ESCI Toasted Toffee Tobacco Kick Juice.. Thats a high spot for a juice that has no claim to even be a RY4. To me the juice is exactly what it is Toasted Toffee and not a RY4. Anyone else have an opinion on this? Do not get me wrong this juice is excellent if you like Toasted Toffee but maybe I am missing the point is RY4 suppose to taste like toasted toffee?
 
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thehangdude

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I was wondering the same thing when the Toasted Toffee review first made it onto this list. It sounds like a very good juice, but even bill says it doesn't have vanilla.

I can't taste any vanilla, but this juice is definitely caramel-rich. That's what you get on inhale---good tobacco and yummy caramel. Then on exhale, the trio of sweet-sour-salty shows up to tickle the palate and leave a deliciously lingering aftertaste.

I checked the website, and the description reads "Toasted Toffee" and nothing else, lol.
Although I agree with passerbyeus in questioning Toasted's place on this list, I also feel that billherbst has ultimate power to install any flavor he chooses. The time he has put into this thread gives him that right. I can also see how toffee can resemble RY4. After all, there is a vendor that thinks RY4 should taste like dirty socks. (Not sure that was what the vendor was going for, but if it was, they succeeded.)

So, while I am not sure if putting toffee juice on the list is fair, I also don't know if just naming a juice RY4 is enough. If the "ry4" tastes like cake with icing, and has almost no tobacco, does it belong just because of its name? What if it is a barely sweetened tobacco.

I don't envy bill's unpaid job. It is a can of worms, but since he opened it, it is his can to do with as he wishes.
 

passerbyeus

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I agree totally he can do as he wants and he is very good at i ....I agree with his list almost on all but that and kickbass ry4....



I was wondering the same thing when the Toasted Toffee review first made it onto this list. It sounds like a very good juice, but even bill says it doesn't have vanilla.



I checked the website, and the description reads "Toasted Toffee" and nothing else, lol.
Although I agree with passerbyeus in questioning Toasted's place on this list, I also feel that billherbst has ultimate power to install any flavor he chooses. The time he has put into this thread gives him that right. I can also see how toffee can resemble RY4. After all, there is a vendor that thinks RY4 should taste like dirty socks. (Not sure that was what the vendor was going for, but if it was, they succeeded.)

So, while I am not sure if putting toffee juice on the list is fair, I also don't know if just naming a juice RY4 is enough. If the "ry4" tastes like cake with icing, and has almost no tobacco, does it belong just because of its name? What if it is a barely sweetened tobacco.

I don't envy bill's unpaid job. It is a can of worms, but since he opened it, it is his can to do with as he wishes.
 

thehangdude

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I agree totally he can do as he wants and he is very good at i ....I agree with his list almost on all but that and kickbass ry4....

For me, KickBassVapor's RY4 took about a month to steep. At fresh, it was not very good. Now it is one of my favorites.

If I remember it is the base flavor (like BWB and to an extreme Halo) that bill doesn't like. I do get an undertone of butter in almost all of KBV's juices. It is a flavor that compliments more often than not. I don't detect it in their RY4 after steep.

Yes, there are a few diamonds near the bottom of the list. That is why bill wants to kill the ranking and only go by category. I feel the ranking does much to show how different everyone's tastes are. I dislike the kool-aid sweetness of many Chinese juices (just as I can't stand Diet drinks), but bill ranks them high. I just know to stay away if he says it resembles Chinese or original RY4.
 

billherbst

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Passerbyeus, Hangdude, and everyone,

First off, Passerbyeus' questions concerning ECSI Toasted Toffee Kick Juice and its inclusion on the Big List seem to me perfectly reasonable. I've had some of them myself. I don't feel defensive about the subject coming up, because---however neurotically possessive I may feel about the thread---I much prefer discussion and shared decisions to carrying the burden of sole responsibility.

One factor that muddies the water here is that my Toasted Toffee is made from Jane’s flavor concentrate for Toasted Toffee rather than her actual ECSI pre-mixed juice. So perhaps what I’m vaping doesn’t taste quite the same, given the possible differences in flavoring percentage (I’m using 20%), base ratios (50/50 PG/VG), or nicotine (20mg strength using Good Prophets 36mg/ml nic liquid). I can’t do much about that right now, but I acknowledge it as an element of uncertainty.

Had I left Toasted Toffee in the second ten of the rankings, these questions might not have even come up. It's pretty clear that I provoked them by moving up Toasted Toffee to #5. Why did I do that? Simply because I have come to love the juice (as I stated in the last update). The more lousy RY4s I vape (and friends, over the past eight months I have sampled some truly sub-par RY4s), the more that certain other juices begin to stand out as wonderful by contrast. Toasted Toffee is among the wonderful ones.

On the other hand, if I were to decide right this second, I might have to go with passerbyeus and remove Toasted Toffee from the Big List. But let me make the Case for the Defense in separate posts to follow.

Interested readers might go back and read my original review. That’s post #868 of the thread. Here’s a link (scroll down for the review):

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ws/193327-really-big-ry4-roundup-long-87.html
 

billherbst

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passerbyeus states that the ECSI web site carries no description other than “Toasted Toffee,” which is what he feels the juice to be, just toasted toffee and nothing else, therefore not a valid RY4.

Cross-examination: Just because a vendor's description about a specific juice says or doesn't say something carries less weight than one might think. For instance, Dulcis is described on the VaporTalk web site as “a Tobacco Juice with a hint of caramel that is sweet (although not too sweet!) and decadent.” What? You mean there's no vanilla in Dulcis? If there's no vanilla and it's named "Dulcis," then it must not be an RY4, right? Wrong. I don't know about any of you, but I taste vanilla in Dulcis, and to me it's definitely a classic RY4---and a superlative one to boot.

The ECSI web site doesn't describe Toasted Toffee’s flavor at all; it merely repeats the juice’s name---Toasted Toffee. Many vendors don’t describe their juices or define what the ingredients are. In fact, vendors who reveal all the ingredients in their juices are as rare as hen’s teeth. Can you think of any? I can’t.

The upshot is that I'm not swayed one way or the other by this argument. We'll need other evidence.
 

billherbst

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Of the three typical base ingredients in RY4s---tobacco, caramel, and vanilla---Caramel is the most obvious in flavor. It’s the easiest to identify in most RY4s, the first and often strongest flavor we taste.

Does Toasted Toffee contain caramel? Well, duh, that’s what toffee is.

-----

Tobacco is somewhat less obvious. In more than half the RY4s I've vaped (74 of 'em now), I can't really taste the tobacco, other than as a vague, sort-of-tobacco-like resonance. Does Toasted Toffee contain tobacco flavor? I think so, but I assume that passerbyeus does not.

As witnesses for the defense, I first call ECF member Last Tango, who started this thread on ECF: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ews/143278-kick-e-liquid-positive-review.html. In one post of that thread, Last Tango advised a poster that “I [LT]would recommend the toasted toffee over their [ECSI’s] 555 – Their toasted toffee is more like what I would want a 555 to be like.”

Another thread on ECF is http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-liquid-reviews/4947-janes-kick-juice.html. In that thread, ECF member Gotcoffee posted this: “Back when I started vaping over a year ago. My favorite was RY4 and someone recomended me Toasted Toffee by Jane. I tried it and have never gone back. I really cant explain it. Its smooth and very tasty…”. ECF member RazorNribbonz then responded: “The toasted toffee is more 555-ish then ry4, to me..A definite toasted nuttiness to it...Very nice”

Does Toasted Toffee contain tobacco flavor? I think so, and so do three other witnesses.

-----

Then there’s Vanilla, the least prominent of the three classic flavors.

A small percentage of RY4s are vanilla-rich, and in that group the vanilla flavor is up-front and easy to recognize, with BWB RY4 and PrimeVaping PV4 being the highest ranked of the Vanilla-Rich Category Group. In many RY4s, however, vanilla is relegated to a background flavor that’s often so subtle as to be just a hint or whisper. Hell, I could list a number of RY4s where I can't taste any vanilla at all.

Does Toasted Toffee contain vanilla? Not any that I can taste as an obvious flavor, but I don’t regard that as a killing offense.
 

billherbst

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For me, Toasted Toffee is nothing at all like a mere candy vape. To my palate, it’s a tobacco-toffee (caramel) blend with a nutty component that reminds me of (guess what?) RY4. Sure, it’s a custom RY4 (or an RY4-variant), but the overall flavor profile---to my palate, anyway---has much of the same character as some of the best RY4s.

Yes, I am somewhat bothered by the fact that I can’t taste any obvious vanilla flavor, but then I can’t taste the vanilla in a whole bunch of juices that are named RY4, so I’m willing to overlook that omission.

The Bottom Line for me is that when I vape Jane’s Toasted Toffee from ESCI, my brain tells me it’s close enough to an RY4 (and a damn good one at that) to qualify for a Green Card in RY4 Land. The Defense rests.

But I could be wrong. Maybe Toasted Toffee is not part of RY4 World at all and should be removed from the Big List. What do you all think?
 

billherbst

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If I remember it is the base flavor (like BWB and to an extreme Halo) that bill doesn't like. I do get an undertone of butter in almost all of KBV's juices. It is a flavor that compliments more often than not. I don't detect it in their RY4 after steep.

Yes, there are a few diamonds near the bottom of the list. That is why bill wants to kill the ranking and only go by category. I feel the ranking does much to show how different everyone's tastes are. I dislike the kool-aid sweetness of many Chinese juices (just as I can't stand Diet drinks), but bill ranks them high. I just know to stay away if he says it resembles Chinese or original RY4.

hangdude,

You keep insisting that your palate isn't all that sophisticated, but your perceptions are certainly sharp. LOL.

Yes, it's the base flavors that I dislike. Your memory is batting 1,000---three for three. Only Halo's base really bothers me (as it does some other people). I don't actually dislike BWB's usual base, I just tired of it after a year (the cedar woodsiness paled for me some). By contrast, I think the butteriness of KBV's base is terrific in their sweet dessert vapes, just not so hot in their tobacco juices. I do agree that KBV RY4 has improved with steeping. I probably should move it up in the rankings. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

I have the classic (usually Chinese) RY4s ranked as high as they are in part because of my guess that they outsell custom RY4s by about 10 to 1. The customer reviews for RY4s on sites that I know to be selling Chinese-made classic-style RY4s tend to be both numerous and very positive. For me, the most compelling developments these days are mostly in the custom RY4s that push the envelope.

Personally, I wax and wane with the dessert RY4s (currently on the wane in a big way). My most recent quest is for RY4s where tobacco is the dominant flavor element. (In that regard, I intended to post my review today of mom&pop's third RY4, the new one called RYO4, but I'll wait until this entertaining discussion about Toasted Toffee has run its course to resolution.)

Are you not a fan of Janty's original RY4? Though I don't vape it much---as I've written before, I don't vape almost any RY4s for my own pleasure at this point---I feel that Janty still deserves its due as the original RY4 and a very high-quality juice.
 

thehangdude

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The Bottom Line for me is that when I vape Jane’s Toasted Toffee from ESCI, my brain tells me it’s close enough to an RY4 (and a damn good one at that) to qualify for a Green Card in RY4 Land.

Until this line, I was convinced you were going to pull Toasted Toffee from the list. You seemed to be supporting its exclusion by noting its nuttiness, and low volume of tobacco and vanilla. However, with that line you convinced me it should stay.

hangdude,

You keep insisting that your palate isn't all that sophisticated, but your perceptions are certainly sharp. LOL.

No comment. I just wanted to repeat this line for prosperity.

Personally, I wax and wane with the dessert RY4s (currently on the wane in a big way). My most recent quest is for RY4s where tobacco is the dominant flavor element. (In that regard, I intended to post my review today of mom&pop's third RY4, the new one called RYO4, but I'll wait until this entertaining discussion about Toasted Toffee has run its course to resolution.)

Are you not a fan of Janty's original RY4?

I am very much into the tobacco heavy RY4s. I am also into 555s. The two together (ry4s with nuttiness) are my favorites. I am looking forward to your review on RYO4. The RYO base is completely different than that of RY4 and RY4v2 (and Haze) from Mom & Pops. They say it is a really strong tobacco.

I have not pulled the trigger on Janty yet. I have come very close on each of your top six rated juices. I have put each one of the top six in a cart, proving I have at least a little willpower. Maybe with my tax check, I will buy all six and give you my scores.
 
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Zombitedesade

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Time for a quick look at some RY4's then (and it will be quick as neither juices are especially exciting I'm afraid)

Tested on a Reo Grand + Mini at 3.7 on 510 cisco 1.8 LR attys:

E-Cig Wizards standard 'Wiz Mix' RY4, 16mg PG:

Ecig wizard sell some pretty interesting juices, though Ive never really paid too much attention to their 'own brand' stuff, favoring more their exotic lines in pink spot or freedom smoke USA stuff instead. Wiz-Mix is not made locally at ecig wizard and is a generic Chinese mix of unknown origin. This disclaimer is also present on their site about 'wiz-mix' juices:

Our flavor of standard e-liquids may vary from batch to batch due to the scale of production on the standard e-liquid products

In other words, what i experience here might not be your own!

Its a typically pale gold color, almost opaque and being PG based isn't particularly viscus or thick. There is almost no smell whatsoever to this juice, save for a vaguely chemical cleanliness to it which i can't quite identify. thankfully there is no actual chemical taste to the juice itself on vape. Its a strong tobacco mix this with a surprisingly hefty throat hit for a 16mg mix. Heavy tobacco meets a subtle caramel to soften the experience on the exhale but is soon replaced with a raw pepper hotness. There is no vanilla i can perceive here.

Its not an especially good (or really bad) RY4 this, its generic in almost every sense, it lacks the flourish and sourness of a Dekang or Janty and doesn't stand out enough from a multitude of other generic branded RY4 to really be worth considering over other, much more interesting variants. Vaper production isn't too bad for a PG only mix, though its thin and unsatisfying for the most part. Worth considering for the strong tobacco variant fans amongst you, (its also largely inexpensive) but other wise theres better juices out there. Reminds me quite a lot of liberty flights generic RY4 (unmodified) like that juice, it's nothing special really.

Next up:
Totally Wicked patriot range RY4, 18mg PG only (i think, TW irritatingly never really tell you this info)

The Patriot Range at TW is their USA sourced only line of juices. I'd never previously noticed they did an RY4 (though thats prob just me not really paying much attention!) and as a bit of a fan of some of their Titan and Red label tobacco lines i thought I'd see how it compared.

Its a brownish yellow like liquid, tobacco strong in smell with a sweetness too from the evident caramel. This, like the wiz mix above is also another strong tobacco variant. Its all about the tobacco and fans of TW's Marlboro juices will recognize that tobacco as a milder, softer version of that. As a result of the strong tobacco base, theirs a classic TW nuttiness to this mix, possibly peanut, though not over powering enough to flood everything else. The caramel belongs to a slightly burnt honey variation and is on the subtle background of this juice, it doesn't linger enough to really blend with that strong nutty tobacco to really highlight this mix however.

Oddly i do get vanilla too from this, it's there on the high notes, a slight lingering sweetness on the mouth before being lost to an almighty throat hit. I found this 18mg (what i normally vape) unusually strong, both in TH and lingering pepper heat on the tongue.

Overall its an OK RY4, I'd happily vape this stuff, but i doubt I'd buy another bottle once this one is done. Its expensive (as TW tends to be) and its not quite special enough to be considered over a decent Dekang, Janty or ENjuice mix IMO. Still, its not bad as a strong tobacco variant of RY4, something of which here in the UK i found previously a little lacking and then two came along at once!

Next up (when i find the time) a look at the titan RY4-3 and the Janty neo and some Janty elixir (again!)
 
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