The Really Big RY4 Roundup (long)

[Sero]

I had some Jy4 from Roar that I let steep for a week. It smells pretty good, but the vape itself is a different story for me. It is only close to an ry4 in name only, definitely a "custom". I did like the buttery creaminess aspect of it, and the caramel was decent. However, I feel that this juice is overpowered by what I'm guessing to be is the tobacco element. To me it is a really nasty flavor that I can't really describe, and it doesn't work with the other flavors at all. I can only describe it as a chemical woodiness, or a dank floral earthiness. If you're into really unique takes on ry4 with caramel and exotic tobacco, this might be for you. If the tobacco in it had a more traditional, smooth, unobtrusive flavor, I would probably like it a lot.

 

[thehangdude]

VapeSyndicate has a version of RY4 they call Throat Yogurt. I just received my sample today, so I won't really review it yet. But let me give out my first impressions.

This is a good vape, with a good flavor and excellent throat hit. The tobacco is not overpowering, but gives this a nice strong tobacco flavor. I can't really seperate out any caramel or vanilla. Instead, there is a unique flavor of butterscotch. At least it's not maple. The butterscotch melds good with the tobacco. Is this an RY4? Not yet, it may steep into one. Currently it is a fine Butterscotch Tobacco.

The reason I rushed into a first take on Throat Yogurt is the discount VapeSyndicate has today. Bottles are discounted to $5/10ml and $12/30ml. They say it ends Sunday. Whether that means Sunday morning or Sunday night, I have no idea. If you order, you might want to try Lil Tart. The reviews on it have been good, too.

VapeSyndicate | Throat Yogurt

 

[billherbst]

The mails proved dependable and brought me on Saturday the 1 oz. bottle of Lorann Naturals Creamy Caramel flavoring that I needed.

Saturday night proved to be one of my frequent bad sleeping bouts. Those of us who are old and damaged have a tough time sleeping the way "normal" people do. That eight hours in bed recharge thing is pretty much a dim memory at this point---instead, we nod off on the couch during the day. Anyway, since my body woke me up after two hours of fitful sleep, I figured I might as well get up.

Having worked out the sour-sweet thing almost to my satisfaction (1% Lorann Tart and Sour counterbalanced with 1% Capella Marshmallow is close enough for horseshoes, even if I'd prefer straight sour to the slightly citrus tone of the Lorann stuff), I was all ready to knock out the project---make nine bottles of Skydancer RY4 and crank out the mailers. So, i turned into a little factory machine for the past 2 1/2 hours (John Henry was a steel-drivin' man...).

Everything's done now except to go to the post office on Monday. The liquid is darker in color than I'd prefer, but that's because the Lorann's Naturals Creamy Caramel is intensely dark. Every other ingredient is pale or clear, but the juice is still a deep auburn-caramel. I cut the VG with a little distilled water, so---even at 40/60 PG/VG---the viscosity should be fine for any vaporizing set-up: tanks, clearos, RBA's, whatever. Although I filtered the NET only once, it doesn't seem to be a coil-killer. I haven't tried any of the Skydancer NET blends in my Igo-L with homemade coils, but it hasn't gunked up either of the regular atomizers I've used to test vape each new blend, and the various tanks I've filled (Vivi Nova, DCT, and a Kanger T3) haven't complained.

My only anxiety is the possibility that I'm totally deluded about the juice. That happened once before with some awful Bauway RY4 that I convinced myself was "interesting" when it was actually dreadful. It was so bad that my brain had no context for that hellish level of drek. The hangdude gently set me straight on that one, and the remainder of the Bauway RY4 went right down the drain, and good riddance. Let's hope Skydancer RY4 isn't a repeat of that fiasco.

Not that I think everyone will love it. No, NET-based RY4s are definitely not for everyone. They are, in the parlance of culinary cuisine, an "acquired taste." Like sushi, steak tartare, or Kim Chee. Vaping was founded almost a decade ago on the bedrock of synthetic, lab-based tobacco flavorings that really don't taste like tobacco at all. NETs challenge that history. I hope that at least some of you who get a sample bottle of Skydancer RY4 might actually like it. I guess we'll find out later this week.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

What if there turns out to be a small demand for Skydancer RY4?

 

[billherbst]

What if there turns out to be a small demand for Skydancer RY4?

I'll burn that bridge when I come to it. LOL.

 

[Sero]

I notice the sourness in my janty elixir RY4 on the exhale and the aftertaste. It is subtle to me though. It almost makes my mouth feel like I ate a piece of candy with sour sanding sugar on it, like those sour gummy worms. Kind of like a very, very slight acidic feeling. Citric acid is what gives that kind of candy it's sourness, but it is not citris-y in taste or anything. I also wonder how Janty achieves that effect because it does add to the RY4 without being obtrusive.

 

[billherbst]

I notice the sourness in my janty elixir RY4 on the exhale and the aftertaste. It is subtle to me though. It almost makes my mouth feel like I ate a piece of candy with sour sanding sugar on it, like those sour gummy worms. Kind of like a very, very slight acidic feeling. Citric acid is what gives that kind of candy it's sourness, but it is not citris-y in taste or anything. I also wonder how Janty achieves that effect because it does add to the RY4 without being obtrusive.

I've done head-to-head-to-head comparing of three Janty RY4s: DK, Classic, and Elixir Series. To my palate, the sourness in Janty RY4 DK has a slightly citrus tone, implying citric acid. In Janty RY4 Classic and Elixir, however, I get mostly neutral sourness, so I'd imagine that malic acid is the predominant ingredient used for sourness in those juices.

I used 1% Lorann's Tart and Sour in Skydancer RY4. Tart and Sour was designed originally to be used with fruit flavors in candy-making, but it works pretty well for vaping juices. Tart and Sour contains both citric acid and malic acid in a PG base. I would have preferred a totally neutral sourness, but I didn't have any malic acid crystals (available from TFA), so I have to hope that the citrus element will subside with steeping so as not to upset the balance of Skydancer RY4.

The vast majority of RY4s don't have a sour element to counterbalance and highlight their sweetness by contrast, but I'm partial to those that do. Here's the list of Sweet & Sour RY4s from the Category Groups page:

Sweet & Sour RY4s
Janty RY4 (DK Series)
Janty RY4 (Classic Series)
Janty RY4-X (Classic Series)
Janty RY4 PG (Elixir Series)
Mom&PopVaporShop RY4v2
MyVapeCreations RY4 (not sweet)
MyVapeCreations CigaRY4 (not sweet)
ParkesVaping RY4
Vapebar RY4-LE (Australia)
VaporBeast Holy Grail RY4
Vapor..... OuR-Y4
Vaporescence RY4
VermillionRiver KY4

 

[RPadTV]

Here's an interview I did with Janty president and founder Ludo Timmermans. Of interest to RY4 historians is his recounting of the creation of the original RY4. For coverage, there are some shots of the Dekang workbench where the RY4 was made and some Chinese paperwork that lists the RY4 ingredients. Full story and additional details here.

Ludo's off-the-record version on the creation of RY4 was even more interesting. He shared lots more details that he wasn't comfortable mentioning on camera. He also told me a bit about the infamous flavor chemist that was jailed for trying to steal the RY4 formula.

 

[billherbst]

RPad,

Thanks so much for sharing your video interview with Ludo!

This is the first time I've ever seen Ludo or heard him speak "for real" (is video "real?"---well, you know what I mean). I knew that he was Dutch (and that Janty---pronounced "Yanty" by Ludo, with a soft "J"---was a Dutch company), but I didn't even know that his last name was Timmermans.

I don't suppose that the interview will change the minds of many of those who dislike Ludo/Janty, but it does lend support to my supposition that in vaping---as in so many industries, especially those where technology leads the way---the early days of pioneering and gearing up are marked by a completely different feeling than the later stages. Early on, there's a spirit of spontaneous creation and co-creation that hold center-stage. Everyone who works in the industry is part of a loose-knit family, a kind of small-town community, where sharing furthers creativity. Then the money moves in, and as that increases, what happens is what always happens when larger sums of money are at stake. People carve out turf, with legal boundaries, proprietary secrets, and the inevitable in-fighting about who created or developed what. Overblown, self-aggrandizing egos and corporate lawyers take over. Some friendships remain, but many go belly up as camaraderie and assumed trust are undermined by competition and eventual betrayal. History is re-written to suit whoever has the power to convince others that he was there first.

Social darwinism kicks in, with its pecking orders and dog-eat-dog aggression. Add to that the Wild West element of rampant Chinese copy-catting, and the waters of who originally made what are quickly muddied into a murky stew of claims and counterclaims. Then dump all that onto the Internet---where opinion and viral myths outweigh hard facts and careful documentation---and we end up with exactly what we have today: a virtual Tower of Babel.

Although I wasn't aware of the existence of ecigs seven years ago, I'm sure that the climate of the vaping business community was vastly different in 2006-2008 than it became starting around 2009, and even more dramatically today.

No wonder the history of RY4 is so elusive. It's obscured by all that human fog. Heck, I have trouble remembering my own earlier life accurately, much less piecing together social events from long ago and far away, where I wasn't even present.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

...interesting synopsis, Bill.

 

[RPadTV]

I knew that he was Dutch (and that Janty---pronounced "Yanty" by Ludo, with a soft "J"---was a Dutch company), but I didn't even know that his last name was Timmermans.

He's actually Belgian, but is incorporated in The Netherlands. His e-cig designer is there too, but the company's main office is in Cebu. I found it amusing that he claimed on camera that Janty is a Dutch company, but the majority of his employees are in the Philippines.

I don't suppose that the interview will change the minds of many of those who dislike Ludo/Janty, but it does lend support to my supposition that in vaping---as in so many industries, especially those where technology leads the way---the early days of pioneering and gearing up are marked by a completely different feeling than the later stages.

You're totally on the money here. One of the things I enjoy about watching the vaping business is that it reminds me of the videogame business in the '90s (which I covered professionally). It's a rapidly growing industry with unorganized and beautifully naive roots. My business sense is mediocre, but even I know that it was idiotic not to copyright and trademark the eGo and RY4 brands. Ha!

 

[Randy C]

Highbrow RY4 has been on The Big RY4 List for a long time, since January 2012 (see my signature below for a link to the most recent update). My initial review was very favorable, but the juice lost luster for me over time, in part because it contains cocoa (actually, a proprietary extract from home-made cocoa-based liqueur). I'm not a fan of chocolate/cocoa in RY4s, since I don't feel that it's a particularly good fit with the Holy Trinity (tobacco, caramel, and vanilla). There are just certain flavors that I'm biased against in RY4s, even Custom RY4s, and chocolate and cocoa are on that list. As a result, Highbrow RY4's current grade in the most recent RY4 Report Card is only a B-, but I'm raising it back to a B in the next update.

Highbrow RY4 does bear some similarity to Janty RY4 DK, but both Janty Classic and Elixir are much more sour.

This is not to suggest that you shouldn't love Highbrow RY4. I consider Highbrow a very classy juice vendor. Bryan makes some superlative juices---I adore Limoncello, Orange de Sangre, Cheesecake Torte, and Cappuccino Diablo. I'm just not as thrilled with Highbrow's tobaccos.

I had no idea HB RY4 was made with a cocoa based liquor. I absolutely love cocoa flavored juices, and... I adore Highbrow's RY4; I just never would have guessed cocoa would be an ingredient. Well... that explains why I love this stuff so much!

To your point about not fitting the holy trinity profile; your exactly right. While I'm so glad that I discovered this juice, I was shocked when I vaped it for the very first time because there wasn't anything about it that tasted like RY4

 

[billherbst]

I had no idea HB RY4 was made with a cocoa based liquor. I absolutely love cocoa flavored juices, and... I adore Highbrow's RY4; I just never would have guessed cocoa would be an ingredient. Well... that explains why I love this stuff so much!

To your point about not fitting the holy trinity profile; your exactly right. While I'm so glad that I discovered this juice, I was shocked when I vaped it for the very first time because there wasn't anything about it that tasted like RY4

Randy,

Yes, my criticism is not with the juice itself. I feel that it's a very well-crafted, flavorful, and interesting eliquid---a tasty tobacco blend of considerable note. I just wish Highbrow had named it something other than RY4, since it stretches the flavor envelope of RY4 to the breaking point. That is, of course, one of the qualities frequently seen in Custom RY4s---often they don't merely alter the mix percentages of the core RY4 ingredients, but they sometimes test the limits of what an RY4 is.

I would have preferred for Highbrow to have dumped the RY4 schtick and simply stated that they started out in RY4 Land but ended up somewhere else, because that's where their creative muse beckoned, and---like all true artists---they followed their muse.

 

[Roxxette]

Highbrow's ry4 and i had a short affair, it was pretty dam good for almost a week i still remember the first try i vaped the liquid because i was shocked how god it tasted to me BUT then all of the sudden i just couldnt stand it anymore not even the smell.

For some reason i tasted a bit on ginseng, not the taste just how ginseng smells.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[billherbst]

Highbrow's ry4 and i had a short affair, it was pretty dam good for almost a week i still remember the first try i vaped the liquid because i was shocked how god it tasted to me BUT then all of the sudden i just couldnt stand it anymore not even the smell. For some reason i tasted a bit on ginseng, not the taste just how ginseng smells.

I.gonz,

I had a similar if slightly more extended experience with Highbrow RY4. When I first vaped it, I was charmed. Over time, a concern emerged that it wasn't really an RY4, and I steadily liked it less with that criticism in mind.

Because of the thread discussion over the past couple days, I began vaping it again, and---now that I no longer even think of the juice as an RY4, but rather as an adventurous tobacco blend---I'm liking it quite a lot. I suppose that a year of steeping may have changed the flavor profile, too, allowing certain stray flavors to smooth out.

I'm tend to resist giving advice (since it's so often bogus for the person being advised), but perhaps you might put away your bottle of Highbrow RY4 for six months and then re-visit it to see if either your or the juice has changed. LOL.

 

[passerbyeus]

Skydancer RY4 v2b

First off I tell what I think about any RY4s I vape and just becuz this one was made by the you know who I still will give it a honest thought. I dont like RY4 NETS and out of the ones I have tried there has only been one I have liked but today it has moved to two.
Skydancer RY4 is diffently a NET, the tobacco taste like real tobacco more then I have ever had, its like the tobacco got wet and the juice was dripped from it, made this RY4, not to sweet with some bitter and creamyness . In my mind this would lead all NET RY4s and should be a standard, because it is so balanced. I just cant think of any reasons what would make this not a good NET RY4 becuz thats what it exactly is out of all the NET RY4s I have tried Skydancer RY4 is the best. Its almost like this should have been the very first NET RY4 ever made if that makes since.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Skydancer RY4 v2b - Two thumbs up!

 

[RPadTV]

Picked up a bunch of Janty stuff for review:

- Elixir RY4
- Classic RY4
- DK RY4
- DK Ludo's (RY4 + mint)
- Classic RY4X
- DK SE555

I've been dripping them since last night and I've been enjoying. Ludo's surprised me. I don't recall having an RY4 + mint e-liquid before, so it stands out. I wish the packaging and dates were consistent though. Some have "born on" and "expiration" dates, some only have expiration, and some have no dates at all. The Elixir RY4 was made in November 2011, which seems too old (tastes find so far though).

 

[billherbst]

Well, dog my cats and call me a monkey's uncle. Two positive reactions to Skydancer RY4. I'm flabbergasted. And pleased, of course. Thanks so much, passer and Cool!

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Skydancer RY4 - ...a punch as complex as its creator.

If it needed a nickname, I'd offer, "Rodeo."