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The Truth About Trump’s $100 Million User Fee on E-Cigarettes

Discussion in 'Vapor4Life' started by Robert T. Tan, Mar 14, 2019.

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  1. Robert T. Tan

    Robert T. Tan Moved On ECF Veteran

    Nov 5, 2018
    Illinois
  2. K9Luvr

    K9Luvr Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 26, 2010
    Hampton, VA
    I would take a small user fee over a total ban on flavors, which is being discussed.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Robert T. Tan

    Robert T. Tan Moved On ECF Veteran

    Nov 5, 2018
    Illinois
    I agree. If an e-cig user fee is used to fight teen vaping with education and age verification- the methods used to cut teen smoking- then it certainly beats a flavor ban.

    If e-cigarettes continue to be treated like tobacco, it is probably inevitable that some form of user fee and even a federal excise tax will come to pass. And although the budget document is vague, it seems likely that the proposed $100 million increase would spread across all the classes of tobacco. Its hard to estimate exactly what the vaping industry would be on the hook for in this case because the fee is based on excise taxes. But $20-25 million is my educated guess. Juul would be on the hook for 70+ percent of this based on their market share.

    The schedule of tobacco user fees was drawn up in 2009, pre-ecig revolution, and only outlines the annual increases through 2019. I don't think it is partisan to suggest that the odds of e-cigarettes being left out off going forward and the user fee remaining at the current $712 million are slim to none. The fact that Trump's budget will be largely ignored by the House does not mean that the Dems will not make a similar proposal. total user fee.jpg user fee by class.jpg
     
  4. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    I personally would worry more about alternate suggestions than anything Trump puts up. Even the GOP is getting sick of him. I’m too young to compare the environment around him to that of Carter, but there seem to be some parallels.
     
  5. r77r7r

    r77r7r ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Feb 15, 2011
    Pa,LandOfTaxes
    Can he just grab that cash straight from juul, they seem to have it and probably started most of the fuss lately.
     
  6. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    I posted this a few days ago in the "Deeming" Thread. It explains where Tobacco User Fees come from.

     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    Except atria May very well now have a working controlling interest in JUUL. That one is currently a dark mystery.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    Atria Doesn't have a Controlling Interest in JUUL.

    There is No Mystery about it.
     
  9. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    True. That’s why I said “working control”. And afaik whether it’s there or not is unknown, at least to me.
    Working Control

    The only reason we know they even bought a stake is working control becomes a serious issue with ownership levels above 20%. That’s why it needs to be reported. Atria bought 35%
     
  10. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    OK...

    Atria Doesn't have a Working Controlling Interest in JUUL.

    There is No Mystery about it.

    You do Understand the Difference between Publically Traded Stock and Privately Held Stock, Right?
     
  11. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    Yup. I also know how board membership and voting works.. how it really works. Whether Atria has or can gain quickly if needed effective working control relies entirely on who exactly is on the board and their particular personal circumstances at a given moment.
     
  12. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    I own a little over 2% of a Privately Held Corporation. Even If I could buy up another 33% of the Stock, and sit on the Board, I could never achieve a "Working Control". It just Isn't possible.

    Because a Single Individual owns more than 51% of the Stock.

    Now my Views may be inline with His. Or I might be about to get Other Share Holders to Band Together and to push for something I want. But Mathematically, I, nor another Individual Share Holder, nor any Group of Share Holders can have a Working Control.

    Why on God's Green Earth would a Privately Held Company like JUUL want to engage in a Ownership Sale with Altria if the conditions of the Sale gave a Path to Ownership and or Control?
     
  13. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    and if that is the case with JUUL there is no issue. I have no knowledge of whether it is or isn’t though. All I know is the company split from PAX, and walked away with their most valuable patents which they spent years researching and creating.
    Why indeed? It’s an interesting question.
     
  14. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    It is Really Pretty Simple.

    JUUL received a MASSIVE Cash Infusion as well as an Direct Retail Path/Shelf Space that Altria held. They Also Gained established Lobbyists as well as Legal Regulatory Expertise.

    And JUUL could do it via a "Stand Still" Share Sale. So they Didn't give up Control of their Company.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

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