Perfectly acceptable on school grounds and inside a school (for any person 14 and up).
Less acceptable, but allowable/permissible in a classroom. See post #181 for further clarification.
The whole "Kids!" thing...
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Perfectly acceptable on school grounds and inside a school (for any person 14 and up).
Less acceptable, but allowable/permissible in a classroom. See post #181 for further clarification.
Fact at the 5 schools I taught at I only had the option to allow gum in class at ONE. All the other schools the policy was either set at the district level or the principals level.
The one that did allow the teacher a choice I set up the following rule.
I do not want to find evidence (except in the trash can) of any kind.
I do not want to see it or hear it (no popping it or blowing bubbles or chewing with your mouth open)
If I can tell you what color it is you WILL spit it in the can.
Failure to follow the 1st 2 rules will lose the privileged for the entire class for the semester.
I had one kid I busted 167 days straight by the color of it. It got to the point I just had to look at him and then glance at the trash can. He would get up and spit it out. How do I know it was 167 days? Another kid kept count. LOL
vaping in school would never fly here. I can't even vape in the parking lot while waiting to pick up my hubby from the school he works at. I am no longer an employee of the district.
The one that did allow the teacher a choice I set up the following rule.
I do not want to find evidence (except in the trash can) of any kind.
I do not want to see it or hear it (no popping it or blowing bubbles or chewing with your mouth open)
If I can tell you what color it is you WILL spit it in the can.
Failure to follow the 1st 2 rules will lose the privileged for the entire class for the semester.
I had one kid I busted 167 days straight by the color of it. It got to the point I just had to look at him and then glance at the trash can. He would get up and spit it out. How do I know it was 167 days? Another kid kept count. LOL
vaping in school would never fly here. I can't even vape in the parking lot while waiting to pick up my hubby from the school he works at. I am no longer an employee of the district.
Why pick the arbitrary number of 14, as opposed to the socially acceptable arbitrary number of 18?
Just playing devils advocate, I agree with you for the most part.
I really don't understand where you are coming from here. They should be able to vape in class because vaping should have no limits, anywhere, ever, no matter what, period?
People aren't allowed to chew gum in class. They aren't allowed to drink soda/tea/water in class. They aren't allowed to eat in class. None of that is because gum or eating or drinking is a bad horrible thing that must be stopped, it's because it's class, not the lunchroom.
Your "If children are not allowed to vape in class, no vapers will be allowed to vape anywhere" argument doesn't hold up.
That's a good question. So many ways to respond, IMO. And yet, all of them are dealing with hypothetical as I just don't see it ever going lower than 18, and instead see it more likely to go up (to 21) than down (to say 16).
But I go with 14 cause:
a) most smokers I know (have met in person) started between 13 and 16, thus I think kids of that age could easily handle vaping
b) vast majority of (ex)smokers I've met on vaping forums started in same age group, so again, can easily see kids of that age handling it
c) being in high school is transition to taking on more responsibility for one's self, making own decisions, developing own identity. Not that any of these are fully developed for most during high school, but just that 14 seems like pivotal age, and one where person isn't as heavily directed by their parents
d) kinda sorta thinking the current reality likely matches this arbitrary number for kids who choose to vape. Possible it is younger than 14, but I'm thinking (guessing) it is mostly 14 and up.
Ahh, I see. So, instead of making a (hypothetical) rule based on other arbitrary rules, you've gone the complete opposite route and looked at what the reality of the situation is and made a (hypothetical) rule based on how society actually functions, instead of trying to control the populace by way of the uninformed popular opinion.
Yeah?
Vaping does have limits? I'm curious what limits you see vaping having.
In your opinion. I see it as inroad for ANTZ, and point to usage bans across the country as evidence of my take on this matter. College campuses being prime example. Nowhere on those campuses, including outdoors in some cases. For people that are over 18.
Just as secondhand smoke myth has been perpetuated to levels that 10 years ago I wouldn't have imagined possible, I think it is possible that secondhand vapor myth could follow suit. And believe it already is in certain areas. Adults not being able to vape in own apartment unit. Vapers on ECF who say they never vape indoors (in own residence). Threads (which you and I have participated on) that say vapers should never ever vape indoors in public, anywhere. Because vaping (there) is rude and disrespectful, always. Man, if I were on ANTZ side, I'd have a field day with those sentiments. I'd be doing just what they are doing and think what took 30 years for smoking could possibly be achieved in 3 years or less for vaping.
Which is why I continue to be on the side of vape everywhere/anywhere. Be respectful. Be confident. Vape like you belong there, like it is natural to do so.
I'm all for self expression. I love the way kids express themselves, especially teens. I'm against dress codes. (cheeks hanging out of shorts is another matter, unless it's a class in how to use a stripper pole).
But self expression is not the same as lack of self discipline. It's not the same as lack of impulse control.
Self expression in the classroom isn't the same as self expression at the Mall. We expressed ourselves in classroom ACADEMICALLY. Being able to speak cogently, and thoughtfully, about academic subject matter.
Unless kids are in the classroom to learn about hats, hair color, vaping, etc.?
A friend just interviewed a young person for a $80K year job in a professional field. During the (formal) interview, the kid called him "Dude".
Really, they don't know any better. It's about lack of discernment.....differences in environment and/or rank and what is appropriate for a given situation and environment.
Next thing we'll be hearing is that you should vape and chew gum during a job interview. (and I don't mean for bouncer job at corner tavern).
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I would never allow vaping in class, in a public school, at any age, by a student. Why? You cannot trust students to do the right thing. Underage students can say it is 0 nic when it isnt. Even worse what if someone is vaping a nut based flavor while sitting next to a student with a deadly allergy to nuts? Sure you can ban nut flavors but do you want to risk trusting the teens to make sure their juice doesn't have any nut flavorings added? You think the ANTZ are bad now? Let a 14yo die in class because the kid next to her was vaping "pecan pie".
They need to regulated the age of the people buying PV's and eJuice, and I'm thinking 21 and up...just for the fact that anyone younger has the wrong mindset and will degrade the vaping experience and make people belittle PV users. This is not politically correct at all. Stupid kids, thinking they're cool vaping in class..they should pay attention in science courses and maybe they'll learn about ohm's law
I'll disagree and say 18yo. I would rather see them start vaping at 18 than smoking for three years first.
You know, this is really one issue that sticks with me.
Is it really a real danger? Do we know if these nut oils are in the vapor?
It goes beyond the scope of this topic, what happens if you're walking past somebody on the street, or in a bar, or in somebody else's house, or sneak vaping in the theatre, or on a plane?
My question is, is it a real and present danger?
It may turn out not to be. The truth is the makers of the artificial flavors don't reveal what's in their flavors. So there is no way an ejuice vendor can know. Until that gets proven one way or the other,I will play it safe and anything that MIGHT contain nut oils will stay at home. I will only take my strawberry or orange flavors out.
Two things, and that's it from me.
1. In my opinion the idea that anybody, should be able to vape anywhere, is ridiculous. Absolutely, ridiculous. It's not about whether the vapor itself is deemed harmful, not harmful, has nic or not, etc. It's about the fact that you are in CLASS. It's a distraction to those around you, who are also there to LEARN.
So lets take the "vapor" out of the equation, and substitute bubbles instead. Bubbles are harmless. Bubbles are fun. As far as I know, bubbles are also 0 nic. Is it OK for me to blow bubbles in the classroom, board meeting, or movie theater? Of course it isn't! Why? Because it's a distraction! Because it's not conductive to learning. Because it's well, ridiculous.
2. If you are playing devils advocate all the time, it just makes it seem like you are intentionally contrary, and either don't actually have an opinion, or are just looking for a fight.
PS I like waffles.
Edited to add: Now I'm going to do penance in New Members to make up for the time I've spent participating in the two "kids" threads.
1. In my opinion the idea that anybody, should be able to vape anywhere, is ridiculous. Absolutely, ridiculous. It's not about whether the vapor itself is deemed harmful, not harmful, has nic or not, etc. It's about the fact that you are in CLASS. It's a distraction to those around you, who are also there to LEARN.
So lets take the "vapor" out of the equation, and substitute bubbles instead. Bubbles are harmless. Bubbles are fun. As far as I know, bubbles are also 0 nic. Is it OK for me to blow bubbles in the classroom, board meeting, or movie theater? Of course it isn't! Why? Because it's a distraction! Because it's not conductive to learning. Because it's well, ridiculous.
2. If you are playing devils advocate all the time, it just makes it seem like you are intentionally contrary, and either don't actually have an opinion, or are just looking for a fight.
PS I like waffles.
Edited to add: Now I'm going to do penance in New Members to make up for the time I've spent participating in the two "kids" threads.
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"We don't need no education. We don't need no thought control."
That was a hit when I graduated. The song was played at our graduation assembly. Kids stood up on their seats and started jumping up and down and breaking them. Looked around at some of my peers and thought, "Damn, you do need some education, and a little bit of thought control wouldn't hurt you big babies either."
Edit: Just want to point out, I am a huge Pink Floyd fan and was absolutely disgusted at the way most others who were into them totally missed the whole concept of the album. The reason Roger Waters "built The Wall" was partly because of stupid fans.
That was a hit when I graduated. The song was played at our graduation assembly. Kids stood up on their seats and started jumping up and down and breaking them. Looked around at some of my peers and thought, "Damn, you do need some education, and a little bit of thought control wouldn't hurt you big babies either."
Edit: Just want to point out, I am a huge Pink Floyd fan and was absolutely disgusted at the way most others who were into them totally missed the whole concept of the album. The reason Roger Waters "built The Wall" was partly because of stupid fans.
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We are in the same ballpark age wise. I was a Freshman when you were a senior.
Children can't vape in school, for instance. A business has a right to say "no vaping allowed". (And we have a right to do business elsewhere if we wish). A person can not allow vaping in their own car or home if they choose. That's a few to get you started, and I'm sure I could come up with more.
There isn't anything that has no limits at all. Everyone eats, for instance. There is nothing wrong with eating. But there are places where you are not allowed to eat, too.
I'm a fan of vaping in public, and I do it daily. But it's silly to call someone an ANTZ (I hate that term) because they don't think kids should be vaping in school during class.
I do agree with you in general about how people should be allowed to vape starting at 14. I don't think it should be encouraged, but I don't think that a law against it will help anything. Personally, I'd put no age rule on it and leave it to parents to deal with. That doesn't mean that kids suddenly get control of the classroom and can do anything they want.
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