The Womper Woom, Womp it again Sam.

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Semiretired

Vaping Master
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Sep 24, 2011
5,404
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Middle Georgia
I normally take 10 times what I need, just to be safe. :D

On my last trip (3 mths) I took two devices. An 18350 for out and about and an 18650 for my everyday vape - just like I use at home. I also took enough juice to last 5 mths. Well best laid plans...

The 18350 (mech) - the fire button broke on the 3rd week. The 18650 (VV) - the end cap stripped during the 7th week. First I used teflon tape to hold it in - later had to resort to actual plastic strips and kind of make it a snap on end cap. Made it, but just barely.

juice - two bottles and some coils by accident got left on the counter back at the house so I really on had 3 mths worth - with some rationing and thinning I was vaping my last tankful when I walked back in my house.

So backups are important and backups for the backups are more important... :cool:
 

Boden

Vaping Master
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Sep 7, 2012
5,516
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Lexington KY
This is from a private conversation I was having. Much more technical than I usually share on the open forum. Thought I'd share it with y'all before I head out on vacation.

-----------------

Heat seeks equilibrium. It (heat) wants to find equilibrium by flowing to cold areas of a closed system. It, like electrons, will take the path with the lowest resistance/thermal impedience mismatch.

In an atty it has three paths. First Into the posts, then into the juice and then into the air.

The wire mass heading to the posts is the current. The temperature differential between the coil and the posts is the pressure. The more mass the legs have the more heat can escape that route. Basically small wire is a bottleneck to this flow. This can be seen when you glow a coil. The legs and outside wrap are loosing a good bit of heat to the posts and will never glow like the middle of the coil.

This is lost heat.

Next you have heat flow to the juice. The heat wants to flow into the juice but the size of the wire and contact area of the wire and wick determines rate of flow. A 30ga wire has a width of 0.25mm, a 24ga wire has a width of .51mm. A 30ga wire has ~40% of its surface area in contact with the wick. A 24ga wire has ~20% of its surface area in contact with the wick. These are general imbedding figures.

Here is a example of two coils. One 24ga, one 30ga.

They are both 5.5mm wide and have the same ID
View attachment 598923

I cut off the legs at the sharpe mark.
View attachment 598925

And measured them
View attachment 598927

Then maths
View attachment 598921

As you can see the they both have very close to the same total surface area. The 24ga coil has twice the mass. So not only does the heat generated on the outside of the coil have twice as far to travel through the wire to the juice but the contact patch to the wick is half the size.

This is why thick wire heats more air than thin wire, even though both coils have basically (2.7% difference) the same total surface area. The outside of the coil simply gets hotter.

The practical effect of this is the 30ga coil will evaporate ~twice the amount of juice in a 4 second puff than the 24ga coil at the same wattage.

Basically, if you want to win a cloud competition build with small wire in a 2 or 3 wire parallel configuration (Depending on desired resistance) :D
View attachment 598931

I'm not very good at communicating these ideas as my mind moves much faster than I can type. I hope this makes sense.

Sincerely, Boden.
 

Burnie

The Bug Man
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 1, 2009
5,564
18,197
Sunny Florida
This is from a private conversation I was having. Much more technical than I usually share on the open forum. Thought I'd share it with y'all before I head out on vacation.

-----------------

Heat seeks equilibrium. It (heat) wants to find equilibrium by flowing to cold areas of a closed system. It, like electrons, will take the path with the lowest resistance/thermal impedience mismatch.

In an atty it has three paths. First Into the posts, then into the juice and then into the air.

The wire mass heading to the posts is the current. The temperature differential between the coil and the posts is the pressure. The more mass the legs have the more heat can escape that route. Basically small wire is a bottleneck to this flow. This can be seen when you glow a coil. The legs and outside wrap are loosing a good bit of heat to the posts and will never glow like the middle of the coil.

This is lost heat.

Next you have heat flow to the juice. The heat wants to flow into the juice but the size of the wire and contact area of the wire and wick determines rate of flow. A 30ga wire has a width of 0.25mm, a 24ga wire has a width of .51mm. A 30ga wire has ~40% of its surface area in contact with the wick. A 24ga wire has ~20% of its surface area in contact with the wick. These are general imbedding figures.

Here is a example of two coils. One 24ga, one 30ga.

They are both 5.5mm wide and have the same ID
View attachment 598923

I cut off the legs at the sharpe mark.
View attachment 598925

And measured them
View attachment 598927

Then maths
View attachment 598921

As you can see the they both have very close to the same total surface area. The 24ga coil has twice the mass. So not only does the heat generated on the outside of the coil have twice as far to travel through the wire to the juice but the contact patch to the wick is half the size.

This is why thick wire heats more air than thin wire, even though both coils have basically (2.7% difference) the same total surface area. The outside of the coil simply gets hotter.

The practical effect of this is the 30ga coil will evaporate ~twice the amount of juice in a 4 second puff than the 24ga coil at the same wattage.

Basically, if you want to win a cloud competition build with small wire in a 2 or 3 wire parallel configuration (Depending on desired resistance) :D
View attachment 598931

I'm not very good at communicating these ideas as my mind moves much faster than I can type. I hope this makes sense.

Sincerely, Boden.
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
 

Eskie

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
May 6, 2016
16,087
77,744
NY
This is from a private conversation I was having. Much more technical than I usually share on the open forum. Thought I'd share it with y'all before I head out on vacation.

-----------------

Heat seeks equilibrium. It (heat) wants to find equilibrium by flowing to cold areas of a closed system. It, like electrons, will take the path with the lowest resistance/thermal impedience mismatch.

In an atty it has three paths. First Into the posts, then into the juice and then into the air.

The wire mass heading to the posts is the current. The temperature differential between the coil and the posts is the pressure. The more mass the legs have the more heat can escape that route. Basically small wire is a bottleneck to this flow. This can be seen when you glow a coil. The legs and outside wrap are loosing a good bit of heat to the posts and will never glow like the middle of the coil.

This is lost heat.

Next you have heat flow to the juice. The heat wants to flow into the juice but the size of the wire and contact area of the wire and wick determines rate of flow. A 30ga wire has a width of 0.25mm, a 24ga wire has a width of .51mm. A 30ga wire has ~40% of its surface area in contact with the wick. A 24ga wire has ~20% of its surface area in contact with the wick. These are general imbedding figures.

Here is a example of two coils. One 24ga, one 30ga.

They are both 5.5mm wide and have the same ID
View attachment 598923

I cut off the legs at the sharpe mark.
View attachment 598925

And measured them
View attachment 598927

Then maths
View attachment 598921

As you can see the they both have very close to the same total surface area. The 24ga coil has twice the mass. So not only does the heat generated on the outside of the coil have twice as far to travel through the wire to the juice but the contact patch to the wick is half the size.

This is why thick wire heats more air than thin wire, even though both coils have basically (2.7% difference) the same total surface area. The outside of the coil simply gets hotter.

The practical effect of this is the 30ga coil will evaporate ~twice the amount of juice in a 4 second puff than the 24ga coil at the same wattage.

Basically, if you want to win a cloud competition build with small wire in a 2 or 3 wire parallel configuration (Depending on desired resistance) :D
View attachment 598931

I'm not very good at communicating these ideas as my mind moves much faster than I can type. I hope this makes sense.

Sincerely, Boden.

Wait, what?

Enjoy your vacation! May the stray electrons be with you!
 

Boden

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Sep 7, 2012
5,516
28,164
Lexington KY
This is why I condense thermodynamics to this
image.jpeg

The way I condense that is that 30 is the optimal choice for coils. :lol:
If you want a cool dense vape, yes. If you want a warmer vape, no.
No wonder that is my preferred wire gauge for coil building. :lol:
:)
Wait, what?

Enjoy your vacation! May the stray electrons be with you!

I'll stick with photons. Stray electrons can be shocking.
 

LJFinFLA

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 9, 2014
3,667
25,604
SW Florida
I hope nobody took my above comment as insulting. Thermodynamics isn't something most people know about. Much like if Burnie started talking about the chemicals he uses and how they work. I'd be all :confused::confused:

:D

Nope. Not at all. As the saying goes "To each their own".
 

DavidOck

ECF Guru
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Jan 3, 2013
21,239
178,485
Halfway to Paradise, WA
No wonder that is my preferred wire gauge for coil building. :lol:

Mine as well. Granted I'm not an adept like Boden and others ;), staying mostly to single coil and round, but after trying smaller are larger gauges, the 30 works best for me.

(Although when I was still rebuilding single bottom coil Kanger types, I did use 32 in them.)

If you want a cool dense vape, yes. If you want a warmer vape, no.

Yep, that's me! :lol:

I hope nobody took my above comment as insulting. Thermodynamics isn't something most people know about. Much like if Burnie started talking about the chemicals he uses and how they work. I'd be all :confused::confused:

:D

Can't see why anyone would, and I certainly didn't. Heck if we don't push the envelope now and then, we never learn anything new! :thumb:
 

Sir Kadly

Tootle Wompin' Squonkaholic
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Verified Member
  • Sep 18, 2015
    4,361
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    Michiana
    I hope nobody took my above comment as insulting. Thermodynamics isn't something most people know about. Much like if Burnie started talking about the chemicals he uses and how they work. I'd be all :confused::confused:

    :D
    Yeah, my knowledge of thermodynamics is limited to the fact that I vaguely remember learning (learning, not remembering) the Law of Thermodynamics in a Physics class...oh I can spell it right most of the time.:D

    So I'm insulted that you think you mighta insulted me!;)
     

    Burnie

    The Bug Man
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Jul 1, 2009
    5,564
    18,197
    Sunny Florida
    I hope nobody took my above comment as insulting. Thermodynamics isn't something most people know about. Much like if Burnie started talking about the chemicals he uses and how they work. I'd be all :confused::confused:

    :D
    Not insulted at all :) I learn a lot from your posts (the ones I understand :facepalm:), and if I had a question about coils, watts, volts, thermodynamics, etc, you would be the first person I would ask. You are a valuable asset to us all with your knowledge. Thank You for all the knowledge you have imparted to us all. :D
     
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