These are the kind of scare tactics that are coming after us...

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cbrite

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Everyone should go to the comment section on this NYT article and politely and kindly tell "the other side of the story."

A dangerous new form of a powerful stimulant is hitting markets nationwide, for sale by the vial, the gallon and even the barrel...

www. nytimes .com/2014/03/24/business/selling-a-poison-by-the-barrel-liquid-nicotine-for-e-cigarettes.html
 
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Completely Average

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If I owned a vape shop I would look into filing a libel and slander lawsuit against the NYT and move to make it class action, so any other vape shop in the US could join in.

You couldn't write such blatantly false garbage about a major US corporation because of the legal threat of a lawsuit. Time the local B&Ms start banning together to protect the industry from such attacks.
 

p.opus

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Yes...

It is alarmist. But they also make a point because I see quite a bit of "harmless as caffeine" arguments being thrown around here as well which is just as ignorant in my opinion.

There are threads here that discuss the symptoms of being "nic sic" and I hear people all the time being told that they should lower their nicotine intake (i.e. when using a kayfun or etc.)

There are no such warnings or threads regarding coffee.

10 percent Nicotine needs to be handled with extreme care. E-Juice needs to be kept in child proof bottles. Spilled E-juice should be cleaned up immediately.

A nonchalant attitude towards nicotine is not healthy. I am not going to say that it's going to "ruin it for the rest of us". Because that's just as alarmist.

However to simply equate it to caffeine is irresponsible in my opinion.

And BTW, Vape shops and most vapers DO treat it with the respect it deserves. I'm not saying they don't.

I just cringe when I hear the "harmless as Caffeine" argument because that is blatently false.

Having a bottle of 12mg/ml Nic juice is a lot different than having a bottle of 100mg/ml nic juice lying around.

That's all I'm saying.

Treat Nic with respect....
 
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mooreted

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It is the fearmongering that is disturbing. Yes, nicotine can be poisonous in doses much higher than anyone would ever intentionally ingest, but no one is buying barrels of e-liquid. The vast majority of child poisonings are from medications (that have child-proof caps, btw) followed by household cleaners. There have been reports of child poisoning from nicotine patches and gums since at least 1997, and children have been poisoned by tobacco products such as cigarettes, chewing tobacco, cigars and tobacco leaves for as long as humans have been consuming tobacco.

The article is alarmist and I propose writing rebuttals. I am gathering actual science and statistics and working on something intelligent to write.
 

cbrite

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I first saw this article posted by a columnist (not an NYT columnist) that I follow on Facebook. The comments from others were definitely "cause for alarm." More regulation. What on earth are these e-cig smokers thinking--they are still smoking. Similar stuff and worse opinions from folks who don't know a thing about e-cigs other than what was reported in this article. I did post on that column and provided a couple of links about how nicotine helps folks with Parkinsons, seems to slow down Altzheimer's etc. But once the scary info is planted, it grows much faster than other information.
 

SleeZy

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I first saw this article posted by a columnist (not an NYT columnist) that I follow on Facebook. The comments from others were definitely "cause for alarm." More regulation. What on earth are these e-cig smokers thinking--they are still smoking. Similar stuff and worse opinions from folks who don't know a thing about e-cigs other than what was reported in this article. I did post on that column and provided a couple of links about how nicotine helps folks with Parkinsons, seems to slow down Altzheimer's etc. But once the scary info is planted, it grows much faster than other information.

If a rumor gets spread enough it'll become the truth.

Sad but true.
 

Completely Average

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Yes...

It is alarmist. But they also make a point because I see quite a bit of "harmless as caffeine" arguments being thrown around here as well which is just as ignorant in my opinion.

Do you have any idea how dangerous pure caffeine is? Granted, it's not as toxic as pure nicotine, but it definitely can kill you.


There are threads here that discuss the symptoms of being "nic sic" and I hear people all the time being told that they should lower their nicotine intake (i.e. when using a kayfun or etc.)

There are no such warnings or threads regarding coffee.

2782854836_030effa0ba.jpg


Coffee isn't the only, nor most concentrated form of caffeine though, is it?

Just as an FYI here, on average about 15 people overdose and die each year on energy drinks in the US.
 

p.opus

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It is the fearmongering that is disturbing. Yes, nicotine can be poisonous in doses much higher than anyone would ever intentionally ingest, but no one is buying barrels of e-liquid. The vast majority of child poisonings are from medications (that have child-proof caps, btw) followed by household cleaners. There have been reports of child poisoning from nicotine patches and gums since at least 1997, and children have been poisoned by tobacco products such as cigarettes, chewing tobacco, cigars and tobacco leaves for as long as humans have been consuming tobacco.

The article is alarmist and I propose writing rebuttals. I am gathering actual science and statistics and working on something intelligent to write.

Yes, the fear mongering is alarming, but before we toss out the baby with the bath water, let's actually digest what is being said behind the hyperbole....

But less serious cases have led to a surge in calls to poison control centers. Nationwide, the number of cases linked to e-liquids jumped to 1,351 in 2013, a 300 percent increase from 2012, and the number is on pace to double this year, according to information from the National Poison Data System. Of the cases in 2013, 365 were referred to hospitals, triple the previous year’s number.

Examples come from across the country. Last month, a 2-year-old girl in Oklahoma City drank a small bottle of a parent’s nicotine liquid, started vomiting and was rushed to an emergency room.

That case and age group is considered typical. Of the 74 e-cigarette and nicotine poisoning cases called into Minnesota poison control in 2013, 29 involved children age 2 and under. In Oklahoma, all but two of the 25 cases in the first two months of this year involved children age 4 and under.

Are these numbers wrong?!!!?

NO. There is going to be increases of incidents of e-juice poisoning because
1. Parents do not treat e-liquid with respect because they are ignorant and treat e-liquid the same way the treat their smokes.
2. When a child does start vomitting, the first thing the parents do is call poison control and take their kid to be treated.

Was the child ever in danger of dying? NO.....but that's not the point.

As vapers, lets not get so wrapped up in how the message is delivered that we ignore the message.

If you are vaping, and you have quit smoking. Great. But you also need to take responsibility for that 12mg/ml or 18mg/ml you bought from the tobacco shop.

That vial of e-liquid you bought is NOT the same as a pack of smokes you leave lying around. The vaper you emit does not SMELL the same.

Your small child equated smokes with that nasty smelling smoke that you used to exhale from your piehole. That was perfect negative reinforcement to stay away. Now you emit nice smelling vapor instead.....And you child knows what is responsible for that.

Your e-juice may be in child resistant bottles but your clearomizer or tank is not child resistant.

Again, 3ml in a Protank may not be a lethal dose, but it is enough to make a child sick and this gets reported as an e-cig related poisoning.

Parents need to be cognizant of this. Especially new vapers. In each case of these poisonings, the parents were flabbergasted....They had no idea. The point is, they SHOULD have an idea. Just as new vapers should understand that their battery needs to be treated with respect when charging as well.

The article was written as a hit piece against e-cigs....But let's take the nugget of truth that is housed within it and use that to educate new vapers, especially those with young children, that they need to take special care so that they don't end up in the emergency room with little Johnny puking his guts out.
 

LEDBETTER122

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Taken from the Article:

"Nicotine solutions at Volt Vapes in Boise, Idaho. The “e-liquid” comes in colors and flavors that experts say may entice children"

Yup, because adults hate anything with flavor.

Kids will be enticed to it regardless how it taste, a PRIME example being "Analog" Cigarettes, they taste like crap, but kids are still smoking them.
 
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LoveVanilla

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I posted a comment. This article shares many parallels with the infamous film "[MODERATED] Madness" for it's high density of falsehoods and attempts to induce a fearful, emotional response from its audience. SHAMEFUL! I can only conclude significant money changed hands in the publishing or the NY Times thought it time to drag their own reputation through the mud. Or perhaps the NY Times is attempting to recapture market from supermarket tabloids.
 
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ut1205

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Those comments are scary. In the near future we will probably see ourselves held with lower esteem than cigarette smokers. I don't know what kind of liquid these kids find appealing. One drop of any liquid that I have on my tongue makes me not want to do that again.

The argument that it is "For the Children" has long been their argument, but now it is combined with "I don't want to pay (insurance or medical cost) for your risky habits". Neither one is true, but if you say it enough, then the public will accept it as true.

My personal opinion is that e-cigs or e-juice will never go away. Politicians see a potential "Cash Cow" similar to cigarette revenue (think New Jersey), and lawyers see new frontiers to enhance their income. Just get ready for the $100.00 bottle of juice and personal possession of nicotine base becoming a misdemeanor or felony.
 

Frenchfry1942

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I noticed that all of the responders were not members of CASSA... It does help. Also, watching the local legislative news and posting it alerts others. I write letters in response to newspapers, State legislators for my district and Congressmen. Once I did a couple it was rather simple. If I can help anyone, let me know.

Thanks, I just want to keep vaping.
 
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