This is why I HATE e-cigs (warning: rant mode enabled)

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username1970

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May 14, 2012
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Please forgive me, I don't mean to laugh at your pain.

Squirrel.



I've seen that before, but it's still classic. It's like it's almost a parody of itself.

I checked with RJR about Revo. Their website said to call them, so I did. It will be test-marketed in Wisconsin starting next February. I asked if it was different from Eclipse and they said it was exactly the same, but with new packaging and logos. Wow, surely that will help them gain market share.

If all goes well, nationwide rollout might not be until 2017.

I'm going to play market analyst and tell them why it will fail.

Dedicated smokers don't like them. I was in a test market for Eclipse and got a carton for $5. I was getting all the nicotine, but I didn't feel like I had just smoked a cigarette, so at first I would smoke an Eclipse and then since I wasn't satisfied I'd smoke a Camel (win-win for RJR). I wasn't very impressed.

Then I got sick and the doctor suggested that maybe I shouldn't smoke for a couple of weeks. LOL, doc. If I could quit smoking for a couple of weeks, maybe I could quit smoking forever. Or was that his intent? Anyway, I took his advice under consideration and started smoking Eclipse instead. I adjusted to them, but I had to get so sick I felt I was dying one day and it hurt to smoke regular cigarettes to make me do that.

Then there was the ill-fated and extended business trip to Detroit back about 10 years ago. I ran out of Eclipse and couldn't find any more and resorted to smoking regular cigarettes again. I coughed for a week after I got back to the Eclipses. I hope I don't sound like a shill, because I think I'm starting to sound like one, but this is a product that isn't sold anymore and I hate RJR and not because they downplayed the dangers of smoking. Everyone knows smoking is bad. I hate them for the way they played with prices. They figured out that a few people might quit if prices go too high, but most people will just keep on paying and will more than make up for those quitters. Think back to 2009 when Obama took office and announced cigarette taxes would increase. The prices shot up by about 50% (about $25 per carton for me) immediately even though the tax wouldn't actually take effect for another couple months and the actual tax increase was only about $2 per a carton.

I'm not trying to make this political, but the tobacco companies sure did. They saw an opportunity to raise prices and shift all the blame to Obama at the same time. Many people also like to say most of the cost of a pack of cigarettes is taxes, but if you look into it that's simply not true. Taxes are high, but that doesn't account for the price increases I've seen since I bought my first pack years ago.

Lawsuits are probably partially to blame too, but I think the lawsuits are baseless. Everyone knows smoking is bad and if some day I'm dying of emphysema, lung cancer and COPD I can't blame Big tobacco. But still I think the suits at RJR and PM and BAT just started raising prices in a drunken frenzy of greed. "Oh look, most people still buy smokes at $3 a pack. Let's try for $4". And they saw that most people just kept on paying so they kept upping the price to where they got to a $2 tax per carton translates into a $25 per carton price increase.

Revo will fail though. Smokers don't like them. I had to get deathly sick before I switched to Eclipse. By any sane standard, I should have just quit altogether and that was before e-cigs were a thing. Now a motivated nicotine addict who wants to reduce the health risks of smoking while maintaining a nicotine addiction is just going to pick up an e-cig.

Premier failed (I never even saw those), Eclipse failed and so will Revo. In all my time smoking Eclipse I only ever convinced one other person to try them on a regular basis and she went back to her Merits or Kools or whatever it was she smoked. One of the worst things about smoking Eclipse is having to explain to people how to light them when they bum a cigarette off of you. They look at you like you're crazy because of course they know how to light a cigarette. Ha ha.
IME giving out Eclipse to those who were either social smokers and only smoked OPC (other people's cigarettes) or regular smokers who just ran out, it was the OPC smokers who liked them the most - not really a big market for tobacco companies I would imagine. They don't buy cigarettes in the first place.

They can't really market it. TV ads aren't going to happen. One of their big mainstays in the '70s and '80s was magazine ads, but who subscribes to magazines anymore? They can't even put up signs in sports stadiums anymore. They can do direct mail, but that's probably not very successful and even if it is, how is getting someone to switch from one RJR brand to Revo really going to help them much? Not to mention that only a small percentage of smokers will ever contact them so they can get their address in the first place. They know me from Camel Cash, but that's been dead for at least a decade.

The only way I can see this even having a snowball's chance in hell is if they push it in e-cig stores as an alternative that's somewhere between conventional cigs but not quite as different as e-cigs. I would like to offer RJR some free advice. That's your only hope, but if a customer is already in an e-cig store they're probably going to get an e-cig.

apologies for the ranting and long-windedness. I'm in one of those moods.
 

LouisLeBeau

Shenaniganery Jedi! Too naughty for Sin Bin
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Jul 23, 2013
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OP, you used to carry a large pack of 20 cigarettes and a lighter in your pockets, or wonder if there was a lighter handy and if it would work. Now carrying 5 Blu's is a hassle? You used to have a few of those packs at home, and a few in your glove box or you got nervous and/or stopped at a gas station or store.

What did you do on those rare occasions where you ran out or forgot them and it was going to be awhile before you could get some? Jonesing for a vape isn't anywhere near as bad as jonesing for a cigarette. The more subtle rise and fall of nic concentration in my bloodstream makes getting through those rare long periods when I just can't have nicotine easier for me. That's more minutes of serenity and less minutes of stress in my days.

Educate yourself. Learn how to build a tank and the coil and wick that satisfies you best. I personally currently recommend the Kayfun Lite, but improvements are invented daily, and get an 18650 tube. A setup like that, with great flavor and vapor production, IS going to satisfy you like a cigarette. And it will almost always last most of the day, and with less fuss than lighting smokes. No, you still won't get the instant rush. Deal with it. Yes, a spare bottle of juice and a spare battery in your car is still a good idea if a little inconvenient, but really not so far outside of what you used to do? Besides, you won't stink everywhere you go either, there ARE more places that don't care if you vape inside but DO mind if you smoke, and in the long haul it'll save your money, and possibly your life.

Remember your first smokes? What the hell were we thinking?

You once went from paying nothing and breathing easily to inhaling a burning tube of nasty tasting addictive leaves and spending, in my case between me and the Mrs., about $5,500 a year plus lighters, ruined clothes, occasional holes in seats, burns on table, higher insurance rates, yada and yada.

I'm pretty sure you can do THIS for cripes sake. As far as perceptions that you might be using something else, Blu's are rarely confused. But I do feel you on that. I just hate it when someone asks me "What have I got in that thing?". That's another topic entirely.

True, this isn't as "easy". Working out isn't easy. Eating healthy isn't easy. Flossing isn't easy. Studying hard isn't easy. We don't do these things because they're easy, we do them for the benefit that comes to us. Over two years in, and it is WAY easier than it was. I dodged 20,000 bullets in that time! 20,000 cigarettes that did not filter through my lungs. It starts adding up fast, and so does the chances that I will actually get to sidestep what was almost certainly going to happen to me as a result of my many stupid years of folly. Or, you can just keep on.

Picture yourself in retirement spending your money on those things, at what price by then? Most think about going back at first during the frustrating and expensive trial and learning phase. Some, even many, do. But ten years from now you'll be SO glad you didn't. You can't get to ten without passing through 1 to 9. At 2, I'm already ecstatic. Tastes good, less killing.
 
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username1970

Full Member
May 14, 2012
52
33
USA
Interesting Louis. I was that obsessive smoker who always had a spare pack and usually carried at least 2 lighters. I'd keep one lighter in my coat and another in my pants pocket. I think my record was carrying 5 at one time and that was just from waking up and stuffing a lighter in my coat pocket just to be sure. I bought Bics in bulk at Sam's Club, which sounds silly, but when you do that you only have to buy lighters about once every few years. The TSA confiscated a lighter from me one time. It was in my coat pocket which went through the x-ray. I didn't mention that there was one in my pants pocket which hadn't set off the metal detector.


And I would start worrying about getting another carton when I was down to 2 packs. That was always a pain that I don't miss. Oh, great, only 40 more cigarettes. I now have to make my weekly pilgrimage to the convenience store.


FWIW, I've been using a Volt mostly. I heard many people speak highly of the eGo and I got one of those. I also tried an Inferno and a few others. Maybe I'm just doing it wrong. I don't really like any of them. I'd rather just quit than adjust and maybe I'll manage that.


Building tanks and coils myself seems like too much work. I'm sure it's easy once you know what you're doing, but I'd rather disengage myself from the process and just enjoy the benefits.

As for things not being easy, some things should be easy. If you want to spend your time becoming an expert DIY vapor(?) more power to you. I just want it to be convenient - and cheap.
 

Lessifer

Vaping Master
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Feb 5, 2013
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If you're willing to try one more thing, get one of these: 510 Bridgeless Atomizer - Black - 2.4ohm put it on your eGo or inferno, drip a few drops in and vape. It doesn't get much simpler than that. You are using very old equipment, that honestly only works for very few people from what I've seen. You don't have to become a hobbyist.
 

LouisLeBeau

Shenaniganery Jedi! Too naughty for Sin Bin
ECF Veteran
Jul 23, 2013
14,099
43,299
It's cool, OP. I started on volts too then went to Ego's with Vivi Nova tanks. Those were all hassles and not satisfying. I didn't WANT to become proficient at builds (no DIY juice, I sucked at it) but when I got frustrated with the battery situation, I went to 18650 tubes. One battery lasts all day. I mostly drip because I like the taste better, and I like to change flavors often. Juice from Ahlusion, it's really good and with coupons, samples, and sales, a days juice costs me under $1. Lots of resources here to learn coils. With the Kayfun, I only have to change the wicks about once a week, 2 minutes and a couple pennies. The coils last much longer, and they also only take a couple minutes once you know how. BUT... dripping a good atty or a good build on a Kayfun produce a very tasty, mouth filling bunch of vape.

Personally, I found quitting using the patch easiest. I went 5 years clean after the patch once. But I like nicotine, and I don't want to get COPD. So here I am. If you really don't want to work for the level that satisfies and my experience has shown to be the most reliable, least hassle, least time consuming way to vape AND get satisfaction, I wish you luck. Quitting outright is cheapest and safest of all. Have you tried the patch?
 

chargingcharlie

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Nov 14, 2014
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546
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I've seen that before, but it's still classic. It's like it's almost a parody of itself.

I checked with RJR about Revo. Their website said to call them, so I did. It will be test-marketed in Wisconsin starting next February. I asked if it was different from Eclipse and they said it was exactly the same, but with new packaging and logos. Wow, surely that will help them gain market share.

If all goes well, nationwide rollout might not be until 2017.

I'm going to play market analyst and tell them why it will fail.

Dedicated smokers don't like them. I was in a test market for Eclipse and got a carton for $5. I was getting all the nicotine, but I didn't feel like I had just smoked a cigarette, so at first I would smoke an Eclipse and then since I wasn't satisfied I'd smoke a Camel (win-win for RJR). I wasn't very impressed.

Then I got sick and the doctor suggested that maybe I shouldn't smoke for a couple of weeks. LOL, doc. If I could quit smoking for a couple of weeks, maybe I could quit smoking forever. Or was that his intent? Anyway, I took his advice under consideration and started smoking Eclipse instead. I adjusted to them, but I had to get so sick I felt I was dying one day and it hurt to smoke regular cigarettes to make me do that.

Then there was the ill-fated and extended business trip to Detroit back about 10 years ago. I ran out of Eclipse and couldn't find any more and resorted to smoking regular cigarettes again. I coughed for a week after I got back to the Eclipses. I hope I don't sound like a shill, because I think I'm starting to sound like one, but this is a product that isn't sold anymore and I hate RJR and not because they downplayed the dangers of smoking. Everyone knows smoking is bad. I hate them for the way they played with prices. They figured out that a few people might quit if prices go too high, but most people will just keep on paying and will more than make up for those quitters. Think back to 2009 when Obama took office and announced cigarette taxes would increase. The prices shot up by about 50% (about $25 per carton for me) immediately even though the tax wouldn't actually take effect for another couple months and the actual tax increase was only about $2 per a carton.

I'm not trying to make this political, but the tobacco companies sure did. They saw an opportunity to raise prices and shift all the blame to Obama at the same time. Many people also like to say most of the cost of a pack of cigarettes is taxes, but if you look into it that's simply not true. Taxes are high, but that doesn't account for the price increases I've seen since I bought my first pack years ago.

Lawsuits are probably partially to blame too, but I think the lawsuits are baseless. Everyone knows smoking is bad and if some day I'm dying of emphysema, lung cancer and COPD I can't blame Big Tobacco. But still I think the suits at RJR and PM and BAT just started raising prices in a drunken frenzy of greed. "Oh look, most people still buy smokes at $3 a pack. Let's try for $4". And they saw that most people just kept on paying so they kept upping the price to where they got to a $2 tax per carton translates into a $25 per carton price increase.

Revo will fail though. Smokers don't like them. I had to get deathly sick before I switched to Eclipse. By any sane standard, I should have just quit altogether and that was before e-cigs were a thing. Now a motivated nicotine addict who wants to reduce the health risks of smoking while maintaining a nicotine addiction is just going to pick up an e-cig.

Premier failed (I never even saw those), Eclipse failed and so will Revo. In all my time smoking Eclipse I only ever convinced one other person to try them on a regular basis and she went back to her Merits or Kools or whatever it was she smoked. One of the worst things about smoking Eclipse is having to explain to people how to light them when they bum a cigarette off of you. They look at you like you're crazy because of course they know how to light a cigarette. Ha ha.
IME giving out Eclipse to those who were either social smokers and only smoked OPC (other people's cigarettes) or regular smokers who just ran out, it was the OPC smokers who liked them the most - not really a big market for tobacco companies I would imagine. They don't buy cigarettes in the first place.

They can't really market it. TV ads aren't going to happen. One of their big mainstays in the '70s and '80s was magazine ads, but who subscribes to magazines anymore? They can't even put up signs in sports stadiums anymore. They can do direct mail, but that's probably not very successful and even if it is, how is getting someone to switch from one RJR brand to Revo really going to help them much? Not to mention that only a small percentage of smokers will ever contact them so they can get their address in the first place. They know me from Camel Cash, but that's been dead for at least a decade.

The only way I can see this even having a snowball's chance in hell is if they push it in e-cig stores as an alternative that's somewhere between conventional cigs but not quite as different as e-cigs. I would like to offer RJR some free advice. That's your only hope, but if a customer is already in an e-cig store they're probably going to get an e-cig.

apologies for the ranting and long-windedness. I'm in one of those moods.

Don't blame BT for raising the prices, the government is to blame for that. Just the taxes on a pack of smokes in MA (smokes cost $9/pack) is more than the cost of a pack of smokes +taxes in SC. In NYC, a pack of smokes is over $13. The only thing worse than BT making money off of people's addictions is the government fining the crap out of them, forcing them to provide people with information on how to quit (which raises product cost), and then taxing the piss out of its citizens to make even more money. Don't fool yourself into thinking the government really wants you to quit...you and others are a gold mine.


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chargingcharlie

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If I recall correctly, the tobacco manufacturers raised prices at the same time the Obama tobacco tax went into effect years ago, so that smokers would think the higher prices were solely based on the tax increase...

You don't think their price increase was due to the huge expenses the government laid onto them? Which makes more sense from a financial perspective when no tinfoil hat is being worn?


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stevegmu

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You don't think their price increase was due to the huge expenses the government laid onto them? Which makes more sense from a financial perspective when no tinfoil hat is being worn?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It was a combination of things, but I don't think the price increases which happened at the same time as the tax increases were a coincidence...
 

InTheShade

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Apr 26, 2013
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As for things not being easy, some things should be easy. If you want to spend your time becoming an expert DIY vapor(?) more power to you. I just want it to be convenient - and cheap.

The thing is vaping is an emerging technology and as such is not easy and not convenient - at least compared to smoking cigarettes.

As early adopters of what I am calling modern vaping (e-cigs have been around as a concept since the 50's) we just have to accept there are going to be devices that are fiddly and don't perform as we might wish.

If we can't accept that, then all we can do is not use the technology. There really is no middle ground.

Personally I think the extra effort of vaping is worth it for me not to smoke. Only you can decide if the fiddle-factor is worth it to you not to smoke.
 
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