This will get you thinking. Trying to explain to a non somker about ecigs.
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Kudos for #2. Politeness has escaped much of our society, especially in your own home. Your friends are lucky as you probably are to have those friends.
I echo the thoughts expressed & would like to add a wonderful summary by Dr. Nitzkin. http://www.rstreet.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/20140205OregonTobcPresentation.pdf
There is a fundamental flaw in the original post of that thread. Primarily that it assumes a perfectly even distribution. When you exhale the vapor it will take time for the molecules to reach an even distribution. The amount of time will depend on the temperature, the amount of air movement/circulation, etc. If a person is standing near the vapor they could be exposed to significantly higher concentrations than the calculations seem to indicate. DO NOT GET ME WRONG HERE. I am NOT trying to say that there is any real reason to fear second hand vapor. Especially considering studies show that there is negligible, if any nicotine in second hand vapor. All I am doing is pointing out a flaw in the scenario presented.
OMGZORS ban food NOW...We MUST save the kids!!!!
/sarcasm off
Umm, no they don't or they would not be FDA approved for food.
Exactly. This is what causes a "productive cough". Since vaper's report little to no coughing caused by vaping, it would lead one to believe that there is little to nothing getting in the lungs that needs to be expelled...especially compared to smoking.
First of all Thank you for all of the responses. I can tell this struck a nerve but lets face it we have to use research, tact and diplomacy if we are going to win this fight to keep our ecigs. I could have asked him if he wore a mask to keep from smelling things or made some rude remarks but do you really believe he would continue to listen? He is open to learn more about the ecigs and even knows people it could help if he believes its safe. As a relatively new vaper if i can help by educating 1 person and help to dispel the propaganda on every mainstream media source I consider it another win. Remember he wouldn't be upset if ecigs or cigarettes were banned, but would most non users?
I did present some of the information from your responses to him today which he couldn't dispute. I plan to look at the links that were listed in the responses and forward them on. He is a reasonable person and open minded to a point. He has agreed to look at some of the research that I will give him. At this point he is not hopeful but is willing to listen.
I didn't mean to get feathers ruffled here I just wanted and appreciate all of the help from the ECF community.
I did present some of the information from your responses to him today which he couldn't dispute. I plan to look at the links that were listed in the responses and forward them on. He is a reasonable person and open minded to a point. He has agreed to look at some of the research that I will give him. At this point he is not hopeful but is willing to listen.
I didn't mean to get feathers ruffled here I just wanted and appreciate all of the help from the ECF community.
I'm not sure if the FDA has much to say on the subject. Any food that has grill marks, is scorched or contains smoke is going to contain carcinogens and I haven't heard BBQ places express any fear that the FDA is going to shut down their grills. If flavors contain carcinogens, so does all the food that those flavorings are in. Cooking doesn't typically involve the combustion of flavorings, neither does vaping. In cooking, temperatures are reached that could cause some vaporization of flavorings (that's why you can smell some one cooking from blocks away). Well, I have a customer pulling up so my train of thought just wrecked.
i suppose the phd chemists i've worked with in a flavor plant were all wrong.
My opinions have been said. I only have to add is that I find scented candles more polluting than my bit of vape.
That is really cool to be able to engage him, and that he's obviously keeping an open mind!
And you just keep right on 'ruffling feathers' here!
Thanks for the update, and do keep us posted.
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That is a mighty powerful statement.
Care to fill us in on some of the background as to why you say this?
I feel that there is "some" validity to the questions, and/or concerns of non-vapers, specifically regarding the food flavoring .. however, these are the same food flavorings that are contained in many baked goods. Does he stop breathing, or refuse to enter a coffee shop that sells baked goods, or the local dunkin donuts??
I would have asked him how he responds to smelling the aroma of home baked goods, most of which contain some sort of aroma producing, flavor additive. I can't imagine that smelling the aroma of a cake baking, is much different than smelling the aroma of e liquid vaporizing.
I would have asked him how he responds to smelling the aroma of home baked goods, most of which contain some sort of aroma producing, flavor additive. I can't imagine that smelling the aroma of a cake baking, is much different than smelling the aroma of e liquid vaporizing.
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I would have just smiled and said "Sorry"; and get on with business.
Well, since you brought it up; it's something I wanted to mention.
It's not just a matter of what you exhale; it is also a matter of producing something inside a closed room in proximity to people who may find it concerning.
And an example would be somebody who keep lighting a scented candle all the time; maybe nobody around would mind, or maybe somebody would mind; somebody might find the smell quite refreshing, and another person might find it nauseating, and yet another might find it suspicious and impolite to be fuming up the place with your scented candle or incense without consent.
For my part I can say you didn't ruffle any of my feathers. Flavorings were my biggest concern about vaping. I actually enjoyed arguing on the pro side of them. Taking the time to defend them actually eased my own concerns about them.
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Sounds like he thinks he's the smartest person in the room. You're being 'played'. He will have you spinning your wheels and wasting time trying to prove what he doesn't want proven.
Please don't bother with this no win exchange.
He should get back to work and /or file a complaint with the boss.
Please don't bother with this no win exchange.
He should get back to work and /or file a complaint with the boss.
Two things come to mind in the comparison of smoking and vaping. Smoking involves inhaling tiny ash particles laden with nicotine and all the other nasty byproducts of tobacco combustion. Particles from smoke are small enough to enter the air sacs in the lungs. Vaping is taking in an aerosol containing PG/VG, nicotine, flavorings, and water. The droplet size is said to be too large to make it through to the tiny alveoli (air sacs) in your lungs. Everything I've read says that most of the vapor condenses early on in the bronchial tubes and is captured by cilia. Cilia's mission is to clean the air of larger particles headed to your lungs (but it misses tiny ash particles from cigarette smoke, apparently).
Disclaimer: I'm no scientist or doctor, but I have made it a point to read everything I can find on ecig vapor just to find out what's in there. I want to know, too. I'm just repeating what I've read.
We lose the smoker's cough associated with tobacco when we quit smoking and start vaping. Once the cilia in our bronchial tubes have recovered from smoking, they begin to work once more to move what they catch back up the airway to the throat where it's cleared by normal responses. I clear my throat quite often when I vape a lot, but I have no signs of the dry smoker's cough I had when I smoked 2 PAD.
Here's an overview of the differences in smoking and vaping by Rolygate that explains most of this.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/337017-inhalation-technique-e-cigarette.html
I personally believe that vaping is several magnitudes safer than smoking, but that's only my opinion. We don't really have hard, cold facts about second hand vapor, but it would seem that it is also much safer than standing next to a smoker. If you exhale vapor through a paper towel, you get a clear wet water stain, not the yellow-brown stain that occurs if you do that with a cigarette.
It's my hope that some serious analytical testing will occur that clears up the suppositions about vaping. It's logical that non-smokers who see our vapor clouds are going to think that they are in danger from second hand inhalation just because vapor looks and behaves like smoke.
The Drexel university medical school study results are in this link. It's the result of a study of thousands of vapers who participated over a 5 year period. The doctor who wrote the report comments in the report that he believes vapor is harmless to bystanders and adds that his findings were that all the components of ecig vapor are far below the levels considered safe by the EPA. Standing on a city street corner inhaling fumes from cars and buses may just be much more harmful to your health than vaping.
http://publichealth.drexel.edu/~/media/files/publichealth/ms08.pdf
Disclaimer: I'm no scientist or doctor, but I have made it a point to read everything I can find on ecig vapor just to find out what's in there. I want to know, too. I'm just repeating what I've read.
We lose the smoker's cough associated with tobacco when we quit smoking and start vaping. Once the cilia in our bronchial tubes have recovered from smoking, they begin to work once more to move what they catch back up the airway to the throat where it's cleared by normal responses. I clear my throat quite often when I vape a lot, but I have no signs of the dry smoker's cough I had when I smoked 2 PAD.
Here's an overview of the differences in smoking and vaping by Rolygate that explains most of this.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/337017-inhalation-technique-e-cigarette.html
I personally believe that vaping is several magnitudes safer than smoking, but that's only my opinion. We don't really have hard, cold facts about second hand vapor, but it would seem that it is also much safer than standing next to a smoker. If you exhale vapor through a paper towel, you get a clear wet water stain, not the yellow-brown stain that occurs if you do that with a cigarette.
It's my hope that some serious analytical testing will occur that clears up the suppositions about vaping. It's logical that non-smokers who see our vapor clouds are going to think that they are in danger from second hand inhalation just because vapor looks and behaves like smoke.
The Drexel university medical school study results are in this link. It's the result of a study of thousands of vapers who participated over a 5 year period. The doctor who wrote the report comments in the report that he believes vapor is harmless to bystanders and adds that his findings were that all the components of ecig vapor are far below the levels considered safe by the EPA. Standing on a city street corner inhaling fumes from cars and buses may just be much more harmful to your health than vaping.
http://publichealth.drexel.edu/~/media/files/publichealth/ms08.pdf
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Uma - this is a terrific presentation of the facts and common sense analysis - written for politicians!!!!
For those who haven't had a chance to see this yet, the 'header' section is:
Presentation re House Bills 4073 and 4115
Oregon House Committee on Human Services and Housing
Oregon State Capitol, Salem, Oregon
February 5, 2014
Proposed Update to R Street E-Cigarette Policy Study # 11
Joel L. Nitzkin, MD
Senior Fellow for Tobacco Policy, R Street Institute
This needs to be sent to every city, state and federal politician you can find!
Sidebar: the challenge I face is sorting through the unbelievable mass of information, and resources that relate to the vaping 'universe'.
Some references I see frequently, because they relate to the most common areas of interest.
For example, the question of what is in the vapor is clearly addressed with the Burstyn study from last August.
I've been thinking of putting together a listing of things I would provide to someone like my city's mayor.
So now I have 2 items, the Burstyn study & this one from Dr. Nizkin, prepared specifically for politicians considering e-cig bans. How perfect!
And by the way, for anyone who shows interest in the background on how/why & who's of the effort to stop e-cigs, I have your outstanding essay from the 17th to offer. (did you come up with a pithy title for it? )
Sorry everyone for the digression - please read Dr. Nizkin's presentation via Uma's link, and now back to your regular programming!
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