Thoughts on diacetyl and popcorn lung?

[JaxXz]

It seems that vaping is receiving a lot of flak for this. Although specific e-liquid that do contain it contain hundreds times less diacetyl than a traditional cig, people tend to put that behind them and rally against E-cigs because they're (relatively) new and somewhat controversial, but that's the media for you.

 

[Icemanxxxv]

Smoking cigarettes have way more diacetyl then even some of the loaded juices. I DIY my juice with the cleanest available products I can find. If using Comercial juice I would stay away from any manufacturer that doesn't at least warn of the presence of the posibilty of diacetyls in their products. At least that way you have an idea of what you are getting and can make a educated choice.

Sent from my SM-G900T3 using Tapatalk

 

[Lessifer]

Here's a search of the forum for threads about diacetyl from the last year:
Search Results for Query: diacetyl | E-Cigarette Forum[date]=1427871600

There's a reason why it's not discussed much lately. Even when it's present, the levels are mostly incredibly low. There aren't any confirmed issues with it in vapor products. If it bothers you, there are plenty of liquid lines that have tests proving they are free of it, just have to know what to look for.

 

[JaxXz]

Here's a search of the forum for threads about diacetyl from the last year:
Search Results for Query: diacetyl | E-Cigarette Forum[date]=1427871600

There's a reason why it's not discussed much lately. Even when it's present, the levels are mostly incredibly low. There aren't any confirmed issues with it in vapor products. If it bothers you, there are plenty of liquid lines that have tests proving they are free of it, just have to know what to look for.

It doesn't really bother me that some liquids contain it, just the biased negative media coverage

 

[Lessifer]

It doesn't really bother me that some liquids contain it, just the biased negative media coverage

Yeah, like everything else vape related, the media "reports" the scare headline, without providing context. They don't distinguish between hazardous level and detectable level.

"Ecigs found to contain "popcorn lung" chemical!" gets more facebook shares than "Ecigs NOT likely to give users "popcorn lung""

 

[iamiam]

When I started vaping a few months ago, I dismissed diacetyl concerns based on what I read on vaping sites but I am now of the opinion it is the unknown we should be concerned with. Argument cigarettes have much higher level doesn't always have merit when some of us are vaping much more than the "average" from a study couple of years ago. Also there are no known case of popcorn lung because by the time smoker dies from lung related symptoms there's no point in investigating further the cause. It's only when a non-smoker dies from lung related illness, they would try to figure out what the cause was.

I'm all for regulating the industry to test for diacetyl because we can't really count on every manufacturer to test every line they carry.

 

[pennysmalls]

When I started vaping a few weeks ago, I dismissed diacetyl concerns based on what I read on vaping sites but I am now of the opinion it is the unknown we should be concerned with. Argument cigarettes have much higher level doesn't always have merit when some of us are vaping much more than the "average" from a study couple of years ago. Also there are no known case of popcorn lung because by the time smoker dies from lung related symptoms there's no point in investigating further the cause. It's only when a non-smoker dies from lung related illness, they would try to figure out what the cause was.

I'm all for regulating the industry to test for diacetyl because we can't really count on every manufacturer to test every line they carry.

To the bolded part. So we are to assume then that popcorn lung was present?

 

[CharTech]

This is a good vid from Vaping With Vic on the subject of diacetyl.

 

[iamiam]

To the bolded part. So we are to assume then that popcorn lung was present?

Not to assume anything. We've been led to believe there has never been a case of popcorn lung among smokers; just saying there are other reason why it's not that simple.

 

[pennysmalls]

Not to assume anything. We've been led to believe there has never been a case of popcorn lung among smokers; just saying there are other reason why it's not that simple.

I see what you're saying but it would be just as correct to say the opposite. And I don't think we've been led to believe there has never been a case of popcorn lung in a smoker, there was no leading necessary. And who would do that leading and why? It's just been a fact for longer than vaping has been around.

 

[herb]

When I started vaping a few weeks ago, I dismissed diacetyl concerns based on what I read on vaping sites but I am now of the opinion it is the unknown we should be concerned with. Argument cigarettes have much higher level doesn't always have merit when some of us are vaping much more than the "average" from a study couple of years ago. Also there are no known case of popcorn lung because by the time smoker dies from lung related symptoms there's no point in investigating further the cause. It's only when a non-smoker dies from lung related illness, they would try to figure out what the cause was.

I'm all for regulating the industry to test for diacetyl because we can't really count on every manufacturer to test every line they carry.

You will never hear the term "popcorn lung" when it comes to smoking related illnesses because it's never called PL when people are suffering with the many respiratory issues caused by smoking .

It is also a mistake to say all e juice has much much lower levels of diketones than real cigarettes , out of the thousands of vendors out there today nobody knows what levels are present in each companies e juice and it can vary greatly even between the different flavor lines within the same company .

Evidence of this can be seen with the very popular vendor "Five Pawns" when some of their e juices were shown to have levels of diketones that exceeded those of real cigarettes. Don't know how that lawsuit panned out but anyway lol.

The thing that is concerning to some is that these days people are consuming HUGE quantities of juice compared to just a few years ago and every test i have seen is done with like a one hit Ego type e cig , the studies are laughable to me .

Most do feel that worthwhile studies will be released but down the road. If anyone is concerned about diketones choose an e juice that is free of it , lots are available today so you eliminate that concern completely .

Regardless of whether juice has diketones or not i have no doubt e cigs are much safer than real cigarettes .

 

[Jdurand]

If you consider yourself a long term or permanent vapor, then this should be at least some what of a concern to you. if you are using vaping as a way to quit smoking and intend to eventually quit that too.....well I believe the level of exposure would not warrant extreme concern.

 

[Lessifer]

You will never hear the term "popcorn lung" when it comes to smoking related illnesses because it's never called PL when people are suffering with the many respiratory issues caused by smoking .

It is also a mistake to say all e juice has much much lower levels of diketones than real cigarettes , out of the thousands of vendors out there today nobody knows what levels are present in each companies e juice and it can vary greatly even between the different flavor lines within the same company .

Evidence of this can be seen with the very popular vendor "Five Pawns" when some of their e juices were shown to have levels of diketones that exceeded those of real cigarettes. Don't know how that lawsuit panned out but anyway lol.

The thing that is concerning to some is that these days people are consuming HUGE quantities of juice compared to just a few years ago and every test i have seen is done with like a one hit Ego type e cig , the studies are laughable to me .

Most do feel that worthwhile studies will be released but down the road. If anyone is concerned about diketones choose an e juice that is free of it , lots are available today so you eliminate that concern completely .

Regardless of whether juice has diketones or not i have no doubt e cigs are much safer than real cigarettes .

I see it as a two part issue. Is there enough evidence/concern to promote industry wide regulations concerning diketones? I don't think so.

Is there enough evidence/concern for a person to want to vape diketone free liquids? Sure, people can be concerned about whatever they want, and if enough people are asking for it, vendors will supply that demand, which they have.

 

[iamiam]

You will never hear the term "popcorn lung" when it comes to smoking related illnesses because it's never called PL when people are suffering with the many respiratory issues caused by smoking

Yes, medical term is bronchiolitis obliterans and it's a recent discovery.

Testing standards also vary, some may test for particles per million, whereas more extensive ones will detect particles per billion.

 

[herb]

Yes, medical term is bronchiolitis obliterans and it's a recent discovery.

Testing standards also vary, some may test for particles per million, whereas more extensive ones will detect particles per billion.

B.O is almost never diagnosed as the testing and effort involved is so extensive , i think most medical specialist just list any respiratory related condition as some type of COPD related illness if smoking is involved . It's a very vast topic

 

[Lessifer]

There is the theory that B.O. in smokers is misdiagnosed as COPD or other respiratory illnesses. It is a plausible theory, but it is just that, a theory. I am unaware of any cases where someone was misdiagnosed and then later received the correct diagnosis.

 

[Jdurand]

Being as both are relatively untreatable, does it matter?

 

[Lessifer]

Being as both are relatively untreatable, does it matter?

It matters to us. If smokers get COPD and emphysema from inhaling smoke, but do not develop anything related to diketones, that is important information for us to know.

 

[iamiam]

There is the theory that B.O. in smokers is misdiagnosed as COPD or other respiratory illnesses. It is a plausible theory, but it is just that, a theory. I am unaware of any cases where someone was misdiagnosed and then later received the correct diagnosis.

Being as both are relatively untreatable, does it matter?

Exactly. There is no misdiagnosis, then correct diagnosis scenario ever. What is the point?

 

[iamiam]

It matters to us. If smokers get COPD and emphysema from inhaling smoke, but do not develop anything related to diketones, that is important information for us to know.

Yes it is important to us but to the doctors, there's no point for them to investigate further.