Shame on you for trying to discredit the poor tobacco companies.
I can't believe anyone could actually say, what that woman said, with a straight face!Tobacco Companies are Scaring Doctors
- Thread starter Deeo
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
I can't believe anyone could actually say, what that woman said, with a straight face!
The tobacco companies will treat you like a lab rat until they squeeze the last dollar out of your pocket and won't even send flowers to your funeral. Other than that, their fine folks.
And that would imply?
People are so bigoted against China they will swear everything is Bad/Junk/Dangerous............ Yet up to 90% of the items found in 100 percent of regular department stores comes from CHINA.
Even my employer with over 1 million SKUs is over 90% - welcome to reality
First real US player vesting in our end of the industry:
Universal Corporation Announces Joint Venture to Produce Liquid Nicotine (NYSE:UVV)
So you're saying that because America stocks its stores with Chinese products then that means they aren't junk? We purchase from China, not because of quality, but because it's cheaper. I'm not saying that everything I've received from China has been absolute crap. I've received many exceptional items for a fraction of the price.
However I have quite a bit of experience with importing various reagents and bulk supplements from China. I've received many mislabeled, misrepresented, and adulterated products. I'm not trying to worry people. Just trying to inform.
I have been saying/warning about this for almost two years now.
For me, vaping needs to be kept away from those industries that have a proven track record of killing with extra chemicals. Like tobacco or pharmaceutical companies.
Nicorette QuickMist has PG, VG, Flavoring, and Nicotine ......PLUS 10 more ingredients than our ejuice. Why?
Nicotine by itself has about the same level of addictive properties as caffeine.
There are small amounts of naturally-occuring MAOIs (Monoamine oxidase inhibitors) in tobacco that are released when it burns (which is why natural tobacco is used as a euphoric and a ritual drug by some native cultures), but the Big Tobacco companies put large EXTRA doses of MAOIs in cigarettes. They do this because when nicotine AND MAOI's hit your brain together, the MAOIs make the nicotine about 20 times more addictive than it is on it's own.
Does anyone REALLY think that BT will NOT add this crap to their own e-liquids? I mean REALLY? Considering the track record of BT, they would put chemicals derived from the Coca plant, and Poppies in tobacco if it were legal, to increase it's addictiveness.
I would be surprised to find that e-liquid being made my BT companies does NOT have these added addiction enhancers like MAOIs...
Imagine, for a minute, the most evil, sociopathic, conniving, duplicitous, lying scumbag sleazebucket of a person on the planet.
The executives for BT would hire this guy as a janitor, because he's not quite up to their level. THAT'S the sort of unfathomable evil we're REALLY up against with not only with BT, but with the FDA, and the ANTZ as well. It's a level of lying, sociopathic evil that most normal, healthy people simply cannot comprehend.
I worked as a contractor for the CDC for 10 years. Believe me--I know...
There are small amounts of naturally-occuring MAOIs (Monoamine oxidase inhibitors) in tobacco that are released when it burns (which is why natural tobacco is used as a euphoric and a ritual drug by some native cultures), but the Big Tobacco companies put large EXTRA doses of MAOIs in cigarettes. They do this because when nicotine AND MAOI's hit your brain together, the MAOIs make the nicotine about 20 times more addictive than it is on it's own.
Does anyone REALLY think that BT will NOT add this crap to their own e-liquids? I mean REALLY? Considering the track record of BT, they would put chemicals derived from the Coca plant, and Poppies in tobacco if it were legal, to increase it's addictiveness.
I would be surprised to find that e-liquid being made my BT companies does NOT have these added addiction enhancers like MAOIs...
Imagine, for a minute, the most evil, sociopathic, conniving, duplicitous, lying scumbag sleazebucket of a person on the planet.
The executives for BT would hire this guy as a janitor, because he's not quite up to their level. THAT'S the sort of unfathomable evil we're REALLY up against with not only with BT, but with the FDA, and the ANTZ as well. It's a level of lying, sociopathic evil that most normal, healthy people simply cannot comprehend.
I worked as a contractor for the CDC for 10 years. Believe me--I know...
Last edited:
And that, stereodreamer, is exactly why I would never use any product sold by a tobacco company.
I will never buy e-liquid from a tobacco company , not only because I don't trust them but also because they , with the help of me being a stupid young fellow , got me into this addiction on the first place.
The problem is that the FDA with it's new plan of regulations will make it hard for small vendors to stand up to their demands which require money .... what might keep only tobacco companies products on the shelves .
The problem is that the FDA with it's new plan of regulations will make it hard for small vendors to stand up to their demands which require money .... what might keep only tobacco companies products on the shelves .
Tobacco companies don't need to scare doctors, when it's easier to pay them to pretend that they're scared.
probably urea to make the nicotine bind to receptors better, like they already do with analoges
Of course a multi billion dollar market will have "experts" downplay the effects of smoking real cigs/cigars. There is billions of dollars to be lost if everyone smartened up and quit analongs all together or started vapeing as a substitute.
Savvy and able horse-drawn carriage and buggy-whip makers adapted to a growing automobile market scavenging their sales in the early 20th century by investing in the makers of the automobiles and/or becoming subcontractors for automobile components.
US auto companies answered the call of the US government at the advent of WWII and dramatically boosted their revenues by adapting (retooling) their factories to produce tanks and other military vehicles and equipment.
US auto companies adapted to a fast-growing influx of Japanese compact cars scavenging their sales in the 1970s by building and selling their own compact models.
Soft drink companies adapted to a fast-growing bottled water market scavenging their sales in the 1990s by offering their own bottled water brands. (Aquafina, Dasani, etc.)
Soft drink companies adapted to a fast-growing energy drink market scavenging their sales around the turn of the 21st century by offering their own energy drink brands. (Burn, Amp, etc.)
Big tobacco companies will adapt to a fast-growing e-cigarette industry scavenging their revenues in the early 21st century by creating and/or rebranding e-cig products to sell under their own brands, or under new brand names they will create.
This is why they haven't crushed e-cigs long before now. They're not stupid. And they're not incapable. They've been watching the e-cig industry very closely since its inception. They have billions of dollars and huge political clout which they could have used much more effectively than they have so far to abort vaping before many of us would have ever even heard of it.
Regardless of what they've been feeding the government and media, they know very well that e-liquid is mostly (if not completely) harmless, and therefore that a significant percentage of the public will eventually come to know the same. I guarantee you that they've been buying e-juices and breaking them down in their own laboratories for several years to determine exactly what's in them. Or rather, to confirm what most e-juice vendors advertise openly regarding ingredients.
I'm sure tobacco companies have been testing vaping products in their own secret focus groups to determine their effectiveness as a smoking cessation method. Take 100 smokers and record what they smoke and how many per day. Give them various vaping products to try out. Each week, record how many people are smoking less, and how many have quit entirely.
I guarantee you anything we know about vaping, they know about vaping. I believe they've let it grow just as it has so far, and have only used a small percentage of their power to push for regulations, more for market control than market reduction. Are they setting up to do what Coca-Cola and Pepsi and Ford and GM have done by adapting to new markets rather than destroying them? You better believe it.
In 20-30 years, us early adopters will still be using our VAMOs and Sigeleis and Stingrays and Protanks and Nautiluses and RDAs (rebuilt and restored as necessary if they've become unavailable) while the late adopters will be using Philip-Morris and Imperial and RJ Reynolds and British American brands of e-cigs. And I feel certain that they will not stop at cigalikes, but will also (sooner or later) offer tank systems once they see fit to join that aspect of the industry.
I doubt they'll get into the mech/RDA market, since it will be considerably smaller than the rest of the vaping market, making it much less profitable for them to offset the costs of adapting to it. What we call "dripping" will, therefore, continue to be served by existing product brands. As long as the subset of drippers is small enough to not encroach too much into big tobacco's respective sections of the e-cig market, I don't think they'll try to quash it either. It'll remain as a cult/hobbyist realm.
Big Tobacco has been losing sales significantly for over thirty years, ever since anti-smoking PSAs and big lawsuits began eating away at their revenues. I think they'll come around to welcome a new way to make money once they've developed and tested their strategies for doing so.
They will not kill what they can join and profit from.
So there's my stab at vaping futurism. (Adapted a bit from my previous positions after putting more thought into it recently.)
US auto companies answered the call of the US government at the advent of WWII and dramatically boosted their revenues by adapting (retooling) their factories to produce tanks and other military vehicles and equipment.
US auto companies adapted to a fast-growing influx of Japanese compact cars scavenging their sales in the 1970s by building and selling their own compact models.
Soft drink companies adapted to a fast-growing bottled water market scavenging their sales in the 1990s by offering their own bottled water brands. (Aquafina, Dasani, etc.)
Soft drink companies adapted to a fast-growing energy drink market scavenging their sales around the turn of the 21st century by offering their own energy drink brands. (Burn, Amp, etc.)
Big tobacco companies will adapt to a fast-growing e-cigarette industry scavenging their revenues in the early 21st century by creating and/or rebranding e-cig products to sell under their own brands, or under new brand names they will create.
This is why they haven't crushed e-cigs long before now. They're not stupid. And they're not incapable. They've been watching the e-cig industry very closely since its inception. They have billions of dollars and huge political clout which they could have used much more effectively than they have so far to abort vaping before many of us would have ever even heard of it.
Regardless of what they've been feeding the government and media, they know very well that e-liquid is mostly (if not completely) harmless, and therefore that a significant percentage of the public will eventually come to know the same. I guarantee you that they've been buying e-juices and breaking them down in their own laboratories for several years to determine exactly what's in them. Or rather, to confirm what most e-juice vendors advertise openly regarding ingredients.
I'm sure tobacco companies have been testing vaping products in their own secret focus groups to determine their effectiveness as a smoking cessation method. Take 100 smokers and record what they smoke and how many per day. Give them various vaping products to try out. Each week, record how many people are smoking less, and how many have quit entirely.
I guarantee you anything we know about vaping, they know about vaping. I believe they've let it grow just as it has so far, and have only used a small percentage of their power to push for regulations, more for market control than market reduction. Are they setting up to do what Coca-Cola and Pepsi and Ford and GM have done by adapting to new markets rather than destroying them? You better believe it.
In 20-30 years, us early adopters will still be using our VAMOs and Sigeleis and Stingrays and Protanks and Nautiluses and RDAs (rebuilt and restored as necessary if they've become unavailable) while the late adopters will be using Philip-Morris and Imperial and RJ Reynolds and British American brands of e-cigs. And I feel certain that they will not stop at cigalikes, but will also (sooner or later) offer tank systems once they see fit to join that aspect of the industry.
I doubt they'll get into the mech/RDA market, since it will be considerably smaller than the rest of the vaping market, making it much less profitable for them to offset the costs of adapting to it. What we call "dripping" will, therefore, continue to be served by existing product brands. As long as the subset of drippers is small enough to not encroach too much into big tobacco's respective sections of the e-cig market, I don't think they'll try to quash it either. It'll remain as a cult/hobbyist realm.
Big Tobacco has been losing sales significantly for over thirty years, ever since anti-smoking PSAs and big lawsuits began eating away at their revenues. I think they'll come around to welcome a new way to make money once they've developed and tested their strategies for doing so.
They will not kill what they can join and profit from.
So there's my stab at vaping futurism.
(Adapted a bit from my previous positions after putting more thought into it recently.)
Last edited:
Nice presentation here CK!
I like your 'take' on history and the market's adaptation as each new disruptive technology came along.
I like your 'take' on history and the market's adaptation as each new disruptive technology came along.
Savvy and able horse-drawn carriage and buggy-whip makers adapted to a growing automobile market scavenging their sales in the early 20th century by investing in the makers of the automobiles and/or becoming subcontractors for automobile components.
US auto companies answered the call of the US government at the advent of WWII and dramatically boosted their revenues by adapting (retooling) their factories to produce tanks and other military vehicles and equipment.
US auto companies adapted to a fast-growing influx of Japanese compact cars scavenging their sales in the 1970s by building and selling their own compact models.
Soft drink companies adapted to a fast-growing bottled water market scavenging their sales in the 1990s by offering their own bottled water brands. (Aquafina, Dasani, etc.)
Soft drink companies adapted to a fast-growing energy drink market scavenging their sales around the turn of the 21st century by offering their own energy drink brands. (Burn, Amp, etc.)
Big tobacco companies will adapt to a fast-growing e-cigarette industry scavenging their revenues in the early 21st century by creating and/or rebranding e-cig products to sell under their own brands, or under new brand names they will create.
This is why they haven't crushed e-cigs long before now. They're not stupid. And they're not incapable. They've been watching the e-cig industry very closely since its inception. They have billions of dollars and huge political clout which they could have used much more effectively than they have so far to abort vaping before many of us would have ever even heard of it.
Regardless of what they've been feeding the government and media, they know very well that e-liquid is mostly (if not completely) harmless, and therefore that a significant percentage of the public will eventually come to know the same. I guarantee you that they've been buying e-juices and breaking them down in their own laboratories for several years to determine exactly what's in them. Or rather, to confirm what most e-juice vendors advertise openly regarding ingredients.
I'm sure tobacco companies have been testing vaping products in their own secret focus groups to determine their effectiveness as a smoking cessation method. Take 100 smokers and record what they smoke and how many per day. Give them various vaping products to try out. Each week, record how many people are smoking less, and how many have quit entirely.
I guarantee you anything we know about vaping, they know about vaping. I believe they've let it grow just as it has so far, and have only used a small percentage of their power to push for regulations, more for market control than market reduction. Are they setting up to do what Coca-Cola and Pepsi and Ford and GM have done by adapting to new markets rather than destroying them? You better believe it.
In 20-30 years, us early adopters will still be using our VAMOs and Sigeleis and Stingrays and Protanks and Nautiluses and RDAs (rebuilt and restored as necessary if they've become unavailable) while the late adopters will be using Philip-Morris and Imperial and RJ Reynolds and British American brands of e-cigs. And I feel certain that they will not stop at cigalikes, but will also (sooner or later) offer tank systems once they see fit to join that aspect of the industry.
I doubt they'll get into the mech/RDA market, since it will be considerably smaller than the rest of the vaping market, making it much less profitable for them to offset the costs of adapting to it. What we call "dripping" will, therefore, continue to be served by existing product brands. As long as the subset of drippers is small enough to not encroach too much into big tobacco's respective sections of the e-cig market, I don't think they'll try to quash it either. It'll remain as a cult/hobbyist realm.
Big Tobacco has been losing sales significantly for over thirty years, ever since anti-smoking PSAs and big lawsuits began eating away at their revenues. I think they'll come around to welcome a new way to make money once they've developed and tested their strategies for doing so.
They will not kill what they can join and profit from.
So there's my stab at vaping futurism.
Thank you, CGS.
My brain just started down that path over this past week. I was unable to do much writing, and instead began reading through all the recent ANTZ activity.
Macro-economics was one of my favorite courses at Auburn, and since I've begun writing future-based fiction this year, trend analysis and futurism is something I've gotten into in a big way.
My brain just started down that path over this past week. I was unable to do much writing, and instead began reading through all the recent ANTZ activity.
Macro-economics was one of my favorite courses at Auburn, and since I've begun writing future-based fiction this year, trend analysis and futurism is something I've gotten into in a big way.
Not surprised to hear of the macro-econ association!
Been way too many years since my last 'formal' econ learning, but every day present new data to work with
Been way too many years since my last 'formal' econ learning, but every day present new data to work with
yes, but they will use all their power and influence to drive out competitors
That's true. But consider that Coca-Cola and Pepsi love money as much as BT does. Do Dasani and Aquafina take up over 80% of grocery store shelves? In the one I patronize, the BSD("Big Soft Drink")-branded bottled waters get hardly any more shelf space than any of the dozen or so other brands. And it couldn't have been from a lack of trying. You can bet that Coke and Pepsi leveraged all the muscle they could to push the other brands out of the stores, especially since most of the new water merchants were much smaller than the BSD behemoths.
The bottled water industry as we know it today in the US was essentially "new" in the 1990s, so it's a reasonably fair analogy to vaping. It didn't have the regulatory headaches that vaping faces, though, while water is pretty much water...
Regulator: "Did you pee in it?"
Water Merchant: "No."
Regulator: ::sniffs contents of bottle:: "OK, you're approved. Next!"
But it was a fight between giants and little guys in much the same way as what vaping gear sellers have ahead of them when they eventually face off with BT on store shelves. And BT will have to back off regulatory issues at some point if they're going to populate the industry with their own stuff...
BT: "You have to make the stores drop those other brands of e-juice."
Regulator: "Why? Theirs should have the same ingredients as yours. In fact, wait... theirs have 5 ingredients, while yours has 300. What the hell did you pu...."
BT: "Never mind. Never mind."
The bottled water industry as we know it today in the US was essentially "new" in the 1990s, so it's a reasonably fair analogy to vaping. It didn't have the regulatory headaches that vaping faces, though, while water is pretty much water...
Regulator: "Did you pee in it?"
Water Merchant: "No."
Regulator: ::sniffs contents of bottle:: "OK, you're approved. Next!"
But it was a fight between giants and little guys in much the same way as what vaping gear sellers have ahead of them when they eventually face off with BT on store shelves. And BT will have to back off regulatory issues at some point if they're going to populate the industry with their own stuff...
BT: "You have to make the stores drop those other brands of e-juice."
Regulator: "Why? Theirs should have the same ingredients as yours. In fact, wait... theirs have 5 ingredients, while yours has 300. What the hell did you pu...."
BT: "Never mind. Never mind."
Just a few. For more, search on Google for "big tobacco e cigarette".
E-Cigarette Companies Scramble While Tobacco Giants Pounce: Lorillard, Inc. (NYSE: LO), Philip Morris International Inc. (NYSE: PMI), Vapor Corp. (OTCQB: VPCO), mCig, Inc. (OTCQB: MCIG) - MarketWatch
http://www.electroniccigaretteconsu...use-digital-vapor-cigarette-e-cig-commercial/
E-cigarettes - TobaccoTactics
E-Cigarette Companies Scramble While Tobacco Giants Pounce: Lorillard, Inc. (NYSE: LO), Philip Morris International Inc. (NYSE: PMI), Vapor Corp. (OTCQB: VPCO), mCig, Inc. (OTCQB: MCIG) - MarketWatch
http://www.electroniccigaretteconsu...use-digital-vapor-cigarette-e-cig-commercial/
E-cigarettes - TobaccoTactics
- Status
Similar threads
