Tobacco control terrorists launch attack against vaping in SF

[Kent C]

Lying #curbit campaign was eviscerated by massive vaper response on Twitter:
http://vaping.com/news/Vapers-Demolish-Anti-vaping-Lies-with-Hashtag-Hijack

Also in the news, the wrold is recoiling at the terrorist atrocity in Paris. I caught a snippet of some commentary on CNN this morning on my way to work saying something to the effect of "they are trying to bully the world into following their fanatical moral code" and I thought... that might as well be a commentary on the behavior of tobacco control.

But, didn't you hear - we should be “showing respect, even for one’s enemies; trying to understand and, insofar as psychologically possible, empathize with their perspective and point of view.”

America Must 'Respect,' 'Empathize with' Our Enemies | National Review Online

 

[Night Hawk]

They will be far more worried about you vaping at a bus stop then a terrorist setting off a bomb under their own.....! You wouldn't get very far trying to insinuate their hind sighted agenda deals with idealologies but can push them in a corner with known facts they then have to try and disprove. Education is still the best tool to dissolve the black curtain of misinformation. Once the public knows the facts there won't be any more pulling wool down over eyes!

 

[imeothanasis]

I read what these people say and still cant find any evidence of the harmful character of e-cigs. Its the usual tactic to make panic by only leaving impressions with fat words.

Its also a big disappointment that other people want to ban e-cigs only because they havent tax them yet. After taxes they will be totally healthy and analogs will be banned.

In Greece I have heard a lot of time on news that e-cigs are very dangerous. And because people listen to them as usual, a person stopped me on the road while I was vaping and he asked me why I still vape when news said that e-cigs are more dangerous than analogs.

TV does a great work here

 

[Kent C]

Hi Imeo!

"After taxes they will be totally healthy..."

That didn't happen with cigarettes, but if it happens with ecigs, it will be the first true thing that most of the major media have said

 

[Night Hawk]

Don't think for a moment tv doesn't influence people here either! One of the friends I bought starter kits for a couple of years to introduce to vaping heard a tv news report that some of the stuff used in ecigs is found in auto antifreeze! You know that is total BS to begin with but the local stations all over only see "HEADLINE STORY" without any actual fact finding just to fill a time slot! Local stations end up being more Tabloid over time compared to the network reports where some journalist will take a more indepth look at things!

 

[DrMA]

But, didn't you hear - we should be “showing respect, even for one’s enemies; trying to understand and, insofar as psychologically possible, empathize with their perspective and point of view.”

America Must 'Respect,' 'Empathize with' Our Enemies | National Review Online

Sorry. I'm fresh out of any empathy for genocidal terrorists who are trying to kill me, 44 million other Americans, and 1.24 billion people worldwide because our behavior contravenes their fanatical dogma. I am, however, motivated to bring down upon them the full force of the law and see them all behind bars, preferably in a secret offshore detention facility where they lock up terrorists and throw away the key.

 

[Kent C]

Sorry. I'm fresh out of any empathy for genocidal terrorists who are trying to kill me, 44 million other Americans, and 1.24 billion people worldwide because our behavior contravenes their fanatical dogma. I am, however, motivated to bring down upon them the full force of the law and see them all behind bars, preferably in a secret offshore detention facility where they lock up terrorists and throw away the key.

stoopid limit

 

[Rsunderl]

Please Delete

Please don't delete this - it at least looks like has several good articles and studies to peruse.

Just for clarity, I'm referring to the post before the quoted one.

 

[Night Hawk]

Please don't delete this - it at least looks like has several good articles and studies to peruse.

Just for clarity, I'm referring to the post before the quoted one.

That was the quote only posted twice once the page refreshed itself. A mod will have to simply nuke the duplicate I edited there. Having two identical posts in a row won't help any. Having two separate quotes if they decide to respond to what I submitted however would make things a little more interesting!

I hit their FB page with a good ones as well for each of the stupid items found there. Once people see that the vaping community actually looks at the real science and the local BS mongers don't you could sure some tempers are likely to flare up a bit! I noticed they worked fast to clarify the vaping banned where smoking was banned in the new ordinance not simply a total 100% ban on sales and local vape shops opening like Westminster, MA. faced. The addition of the YouTube clip of how the public meeting went at the school that night should send a nice chill up the spine there!

 

[keatonjt]

This is just crazy!

 

[Night Hawk]

This is just crazy!

How is that? There's BIG MONEY at the end of the rainbow that the drug companies will pay out to see ecigs smeared and banned! Vaping cuts a huge chunk out of their profits and they'll continue to smear using bogus claims about health risks and gateways to smoking by kids while not looking at what they push out on the market!



At least vaping has already proven itself effective for getting people to quit smoking while they in turn continue to sell garbage that doesn't work while trying to influence law makers even down to the local levels. Then you add the over exaggerated hype about nicotine being so much more addictive when it is the chemical additives tobacco companies spiked their products with that chemically enhances the effects of nicotine once in the system.

Room air sample studies have found that even second hand smoke from traditional cigarettes isn't as harmful as the public has been lead to believe over the years while the stench will always remain offensive. The main problem at the local levels however is that the actual research always seems to be ignored by those that want to remain ignorant. Fear of Change is what a great deal of this is about!

 

[Oliver]

Hmmmn, not sure I like that graphic. Oral bioavailability of nicotine is low, so much less than 64mg per day is absorbed. Also, it walks into the trap of exaggerating the dangers of nicotine.

Hate to sound pedantic, but we should really get this stuff right - let our opponents be the ones who bend the truth.

 

[Night Hawk]

Much less nicotine is absorbed from vapor when compared to how much is absorbed from smoke! You would need 60-120mg as the ratio per bottle of ejuice to just about be equal to how much you get from just one regular tobacco cig. The patch and gums can be 18mg per lozenge or patch but still not see as much absorbed through the skin or by way of the digestive tract which partially accounts for why the Big Pharma solutions are not actual solutions for smokers but simply profit makers! In other words what you end up with is best described as the "Placebo Effect"!

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Has that been proven?

As far as I am aware the e-cig blood plasma levels of nicotine are far more like an NRT one (gradual increase followed by slow levelling off) while the cigarette blood plasma levels spike very high very fast, followed by rapid decline. This may be partly due to tobacco additives to increase the absorption of nicotine (I understand ammonia is one such additive used). But the only studies I saw were a few years ago. Some research done by Intellicig led to them offering 45mg juice a few years ago, as this apparently more closely matched the nicotine levels achieved through smoking, however an Intellicig is a very early e-cig design. I'm not sure how much work (if any) has been done with high power e-cigs of today. I've no idea what the levels would be like on someone vaping 6mg juice from a dripper at 100w would be like, or 18mg juice on a rebuildable tank at 15w for example... I don't think that has been studied by anyone (yet).

I agree with SJ in that we need to be wary about putting stuff like that out there unless there is really good research to back it up.

EDIT Just as a side note some might remember there was a story released a few years ago that e-cigs delivered NO clinically significant dose of nicotine and that e-cigs were a placebo. The study was done with some low quality e-cigs with never before vapers taking very short timed puffs... You'd think that would appease the naysayers because if they don't deliver nicotine, how can they be addictive, right? Well no, the naysayers just said the study proved that e-cigs were "ineffective" and therefore should be banned anyway...

 

[Night Hawk]

One thing I hear often enough by some cloud chasers? is that when turning things up the nicotine level is lowered. I would say that be in relation to how hot the vape will get when flavoring is lessened in to compensate the nicotine element in the mix. There has been some much more recent blogs by a few more credible sources suggesting that the absorption from vapor is in the low 2% range at 18mg of what you get from the smoke of one cig.

Here I was going at 24mg for months while not noticing anything different when the nicotine was suddenly 0%. I wasn't the only one noticing how little if any effect there was from going from a regular level to none. Big T had to spike things up when finding in their own studies that people can build tolerances to all sorts of things including nicotine, caffeine, alcohol to an extent where the overall effect is diminished significantly over time. Long before Big T started doctoring things people were able to quit a bit more easily with simple will power to break a habit.

In the interim years since Big T got exposed and warnings were issued decades back the Big Pharma opportunity of a lifetime came about with the esmphasis on how to make billions selling another lie! "NICOTINE ADDITION" was stressed over and over to the point of brain wash of the public That was the doorway to spread more BS about the need for "Nicotine Therapies" they could offer. Suddenly that tremendous source of revenues becomes jeopardized as something new to the market but not totally brand new in concept namely ecigs arrives stateside and people discover an alternate to smoke to get their "nicotine fix" as well as cut out the health risks and numerous toxins from smoke.

Now examine the chain of events leading upto the present time as far as smoking blamed for numerous ailments, Big T gets called out for spiking nicotine levels when the actual facts of what they added in to react with nicotine to effectively make it like a nasty drug. That gets followed up by "The Dangers of Second Hand Smoke" to the extreme where new bans include being outside in a public park and no smoking as if second hand wouldn't dissipate? Of butts tossed all over are an eye sore as well as blowing clouds of smoke while in a crowd puts that ahead of things. With atates complaining about the health costs tobacco taxes are then imposed "supposedly"? Har! to help cover raising costs. Or states simply wanting to make profits as both Big T and of course Big Pharma have been doing all along.

Suddenly those ecigs gum up the work! At first the FDA spreads crud out of general safety concerns which they are obligated under law to investigate. As people start finding the patches, gums, lozenges, nicotine inhalers, and certainly definite health risks with Chantrix! Put a gun to your head there! ecigs are the new threat! BS becomes the misstion to spread! While the early science is starting to reveal the positive side the threat of lost revenues results in the drive to condemm what does work for people since it replaces what doesn't! Big Pharma says: "We can't have this now!"!

The fear mongering stories trickle down to the uniformed and then the anti-smoking crowds suddenly jump on the old Big Pharma band wagon of Crock! The 3 member local health dept. suddenly has the mission of "dangers from ecigs"! Over a year ago it was West Virginia trying to see a total ban of ecigs right in the middle of Big T country! Ecigs threatened to take jobs away when tobacco sales plummet! The increased pressure to make everything smoke free leads to including ecigs simply because of two main things. 1) nicotine 2) The word "cigarette" follows the word electronic automatically implying falls under tobacco control. And with some in SF Tobacco control mean abolishment to an extent since there's that fear of "Dreaded Second Hand Vapor" on everyone's mind!

 

[Kent C]

Too much BT and BP and not enough BG

Many of the moves made by tobacco companies were a result of BG regulations - even the increasing of nicotine because BG knocked down 'light and ultra light' cigs because they were causing smokers to smoke more. The 'solution' was for BT to reintroduce more nicotine (but they retained some of the low tar aspects to their credit).

Second-hand smoke hoax was all Big Government and their 'smoke-free' comrades.

 

[DrMA]

Hmmmn, not sure I like that graphic. Oral bioavailability of nicotine is low, so much less than 64mg per day is absorbed. Also, it walks into the trap of exaggerating the dangers of nicotine.

Hate to sound pedantic, but we should really get this stuff right - let our opponents be the ones who bend the truth.

Since when does truth have any relevance to the tobacco control debate?

 

[DrMA]

Here's why TC extremists had to push out the #curbit atrocity:
IJERPH | Free Full-Text | Support for Indoor Bans on Electronic Cigarettes among Current and Former Smokers

• nobody innately supports indoor bans for the cure for smoking
• "[bans] were most strongly endorsed when perceptions of addictiveness and health risks were high."
• Therefore: #curbit was launched to create the false perception of risk for vaping, which is actually more than 1000x safer than smoking and quite likely safer than regular SanFran air

Do note: "perception" of risk is not the same as true risk, it's just a manufactured image shaped to support the TC militant extremist agenda and their intended perpetuation of smoking to justify their own parasitic existence.

 

[philoshop]

I've done no research into it as yet, but I'm wondering what's been proposed as punishment for the offenders, and especially for the repeat offenders.

A small fine equivalent to a parking ticket? Is there a limit of tolerance or will people who can afford the fine be more free to violate?
A relatively large fine? So that only people with lots of money can enjoy the freedom?
Incarceration? Alice's Restaurant?
Internment for purposes of reeducation?
Public humiliation and/or death ala the Salem Witch Trials?

What level (or threat) of violence will be used to enforce these proposed rules?

 

[infamous718]

I was just introduced to vaping and it has been extremely beneficial and now they want to ban vaping geez this is just utter nonsense. Philoshop I am also very interesed in how a fine or penalty would cost.