Tootle Puffers, Part Three! (The Sequel of the Redux)

[stols001]

Section 8 is jammed here in Tucson, but things do occasionally open up (more for a disability) I was able to get my BIL moved from my house into Section 8 housing in about 6 months, but I'm a social worker, and I am trained to do these things.

As someone who has worked on a reservation, I wouldn't use that park unless you are pretty solid on safety. I can tell you that every reservation is a SOVREIGN nation, and have varying laws, lack of laws, police departments, fire departments and etc. There are folks living on the reservation I worked at who are quite dangerous people, but may be tolerated or even encouraged by the community. Also, if you happen to break a law or be assaulted or anything else, you will be dealing with an (often confusing and badly written legal code depending on how long that reservation has been around) as well as a police department which may be underfunded, and may be unlikely to be of help in an emergency.

For example the reservation I worked until recently had a TINY jail that was pretty petrifying, they locked juveniles up with adults (not the same cell but same facility) and while I liked the Native Police department they were underfunded and overwhelmed.

You really need to know all the facts before entering a reservation, and maybe for your area you do. I can tell you that in MY area (where many tribes immigrated to from Mexico, sometimes a little late in the game) it's wise to understand that drug and people smuggling happens (and may be overlooked) of any races, not just one or the other. So it's wise to know safety and whatnot.

I agree in principle that the homeless are human beings, but I'm not going to waste a LOT of time trying to assist an addict in entering a recovery home if they show no interest, nor am I going to try and talk down someone with extreme PTSD into some type of shelter (and there are tons of Vets in Tucson).

I will say that about half the folks that attend AA at my home group are either currently homeless, or in a recovery program FROM homelessness. We make extra coffee and allow the homeless to drink it, and people bring food clothes and other donations every DAY it sometimes seems like. . After a period of time we ask our homeless to come to meetings if they'd like to use the coffee, food, and bathrooms, and it is often very effective. But again, I do have limits and if I were to try to help every homeless person I drive by, I do not think there would be time for me to be with my family and etc.

There was an awesome documentary done about the homeless living in tunnels in the underground and the city rehomed them. It was actually very sad, but I think they had a "fair" success rate as they didn't place limitations (other than safety) on those moving out of the tunnels. Really well done.

Anna

 

[Uncle]

I find the current discussions extreamly interesting, especially given the perspectives of the individuals and what is being express by each of them . . .

Can't wait to see where this finally ends up . . .

 

[Two_Bears]

the two ladies I mentioned earlier was in Ellensburg Washington about 10 years ago.

I used to work with Saint Vincent De Paul charity (the chain of thrift stores is a whole different thing. I had to go in homes I wouldn't house a dog in i also had the electric company on speed dial and every winter about once or twice a week I had to use money raised from rummaged sales and direct charitable gifts from members. Ellensburg is the LAST PLACE to be homeless in. 10-15 degrees for the high in January and -15 below zero at night. Ellensburg is in the Kittitas valley with wind blowing 30 mph.

I never put a penny in the offering plate. Every penny I could spare went to help via the charity including all of my Bridge winnings.

I guess it's a situation you'd have to experience. There hasn't been a section 8 list open in over 10 years. That's gone. There is no public transportation and most don"t have the spare change for a bus. Signing up for specific religious training is actually a high price. One of the most common mental illnesses causing fear of crowds is ptsd and nothing takes that into consideration. There's debate about substance abuse. Chicken or the egg - which came first. If I found myself homeless I might want to be drunk too.

Denver build facilities with ptsd in mind and the increase in success was much much higher. Here the druggies don't hang out in the city park, they go to the indian reservation - obvious reasons. This is a park that is frequented, that's what was so spooky about the fd's refusal to go beyond the parking lot. Per dispatch this is anywhere without a "street address" by policy (I mentioned there were more details). Made me afraid to walk my dog in any park.

What do people expect? Should homeless just be shot? To me, the word public means everyone. Most have paid taxes previously. Are they no longer members of the public? I have low tolerance for drug abuse. I have not seen hypos or little baggies. Most clean up and are very good at disappearing during the day. That's why it takes some sleuthing skills to find them. Lately we've seen more car dwellers, many do work part time but vehicle, medical expenses take everything they make. They estimate for every 100 in extreme poverty, there's less than 20 housing units available. That's a national figure and I suspect it's worse here. I'm not trying to argue, I know there's a lot of myths. They are humans. I hope before anyone makes firm conclusions to get hands on experience - more than one because they are individuals too. The same with mental illness since there are a lot of myths. ECF has had a number of people admitting they were or have been homeless. They are like everyone else.

I've seen stories of areas in the PNW of large encampments and I think that might be a kinder approach. The city wants to prevent that, keeping them scattered where it's more difficult to get services. "Getting help through the city" was a disingenuous bad joke.

Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

 

[Two_Bears]

Bill a 70+ year old man I know from Armory park senior center was on the waiting list almost three years before he got an apt on the 11th floor of Tucson House.

Section 8 is jammed here in Tucson, but things do occasionally open up (more for a disability) I was able to get my BIL moved from my house into Section 8 housing in about 6 months, but I'm a social worker, and I am trained to do these things.

As someone who has worked on a reservation, I wouldn't use that park unless you are pretty solid on safety. I can tell you that every reservation is a SOVREIGN nation, and have varying laws, lack of laws, police departments, fire departments and etc. There are folks living on the reservation I worked at who are quite dangerous people, but may be tolerated or even encouraged by the community. Also, if you happen to break a law or be assaulted or anything else, you will be dealing with an (often confusing and badly written legal code depending on how long that reservation has been around) as well as a police department which may be underfunded, and may be unlikely to be of help in an emergency.

For example the reservation I worked until recently had a TINY jail that was pretty petrifying, they locked juveniles up with adults (not the same cell but same facility) and while I liked the Native Police department they were underfunded and overwhelmed.

You really need to know all the facts before entering a reservation, and maybe for your area you do. I can tell you that in MY area (where many tribes immigrated to from Mexico, sometimes a little late in the game) it's wise to understand that drug and people smuggling happens (and may be overlooked) of any races, not just one or the other. So it's wise to know safety and whatnot.

I agree in principle that the homeless are human beings, but I'm not going to waste a LOT of time trying to assist an addict in entering a recovery home if they show no interest, nor am I going to try and talk down someone with extreme PTSD into some type of shelter (and there are tons of Vets in Tucson).

I will say that about half the folks that attend AA at my home group are either currently homeless, or in a recovery program FROM homelessness. We make extra coffee and allow the homeless to drink it, and people bring food clothes and other donations every DAY it sometimes seems like. . After a period of time we ask our homeless to come to meetings if they'd like to use the coffee, food, and bathrooms, and it is often very effective. But again, I do have limits and if I were to try to help every homeless person I drive by, I do not think there would be time for me to be with my family and etc.

There was an awesome documentary done about the homeless living in tunnels in the underground and the city rehomed them. It was actually very sad, but I think they had a "fair" success rate as they didn't place limitations (other than safety) on those moving out of the tunnels. Really well done.

Anna

 

[stols001]

Yes people do wait a long time, Two Bears. And probably the folks most in need may not know what to do to speed things up. It's unfortunate. I did home visits frequently in Section 8 housing (both in and off reservation) and many of said houses, I wouldn't house any living thing, also a very difficult environment in terms of drug access and sales, and everything else.

There has been need to figure out what to do with our homeless population for a long time, but I don't see anything revolutionary coming. My husband pointed out the other day that many of our current homeless are a) non-drug users and b) of the generation that were told that they could "borrow" for college and that jobs would be waiting for them.... I have to say, I agree with his assessment to a point, and it's quite sad.

I don't see our current administration racing to do much about it (not that Obama did much better) and unfortunately being homeless often leads to becoming addicted, raped, assaulted and etc., which then magnify the difficulty of getting someone with a "homelessness" problem help, as sadly some of those very assaults or issues have taken place IN shelters. It's a really difficult problem to solve and not easy for anyone. I have a lot of empathy for homelessness and I DO hope that if good things come from this administration, it will at LEAST include jobs, which honestly can be a big motivator. That's a huge wall to build and a big dam to steal water from Native populations unfortunately cronyism and other problems lead to even these matters becoming politicized and it is very hard to get a job without an address.

I can't actually think about it too much, I just do what I can where I can. I have no idea what else to do. I actually chose that AA group on purpose, because a lot of new to sobriety folks who are homeless are pretty ill (mentally and physically) and need someone to talk to who isn't going to freak out about hallucinations, rape tales or anything else. I think that kind of "small scale" activism is where it's at.

I think it's Sweden where they have that town where they send mentally ill folks to go live with a
"normal" family for a fee, and the articles I read about it showed it worked beautifully. It was that way with my BIL, who had been homeless on multiple occasions and basically had no parents growing up, my SIL was his parent and she struggled herself. It was really good for him to live with a family who held him accountable for stuff, although it did lead itself to amusing situations where I would be telling off my 11 year old and his "caregiver" for not emptying and refilling the dishwasher and the "BIL" had the meltdown, not my kid. Interesting times, and I'm so glad my BIL is not struggling anymore, though it was rough times at times, imagine trying to impart life skills to a dude with a smidge of bipolar and no common sense whatsoever while paying HIM for the privilege (so he could afford to move out).

There is something to be said for families helping families and the breakdown of our generational family means that problems in a family of origin can be much harder to resolve because of lack of generational family around and general concentration of wealth worse than we saw right before the Great Depression.... We really need a leader right now, but I am not so certain that that person has even shown UP yet.

Anna

 

[Two_Bears]

its even worse than that. several vets and MMJ patients have lost their apartments because their medicine is that herb ECF MEMBERS aren't allowed to talk about.

Yes people do wait a long time, Two Bears. And probably the folks most in need may not know what to do to speed things up. It's unfortunate. I did home visits frequently in Section 8 housing (both in and off reservation) and many of said houses, I wouldn't house any living thing, also a very difficult environment in terms of drug access and sales, and everything else.

There has been need to figure out what to do with our homeless population for a long time, but I don't see anything revolutionary coming. My husband pointed out the other day that many of our current homeless are a) non-drug users and b) of the generation that were told that they could "borrow" for college and that jobs would be waiting for them.... I have to say, I agree with his assessment to a point, and it's quite sad.

I don't see our current administration racing to do much about it (not that Obama did much better) and unfortunately being homeless often leads to becoming addicted, raped, assaulted and etc., which then magnify the difficulty of getting someone with a "homelessness" problem help, as sadly some of those very assaults or issues have taken place IN shelters. It's a really difficult problem to solve and not easy for anyone. I have a lot of empathy for homelessness and I DO hope that if good things come from this administration, it will at LEAST include jobs, which honestly can be a big motivator. That's a huge wall to build and a big dam to steal water from Native populations unfortunately cronyism and other problems lead to even these matters becoming politicized and it is very hard to get a job without an address.

I can't actually think about it too much, I just do what I can where I can. I have no idea what else to do. I actually chose that AA group on purpose, because a lot of new to sobriety folks who are homeless are pretty ill (mentally and physically) and need someone to talk to who isn't going to freak out about hallucinations, rape tales or anything else. I think that kind of "small scale" activism is where it's at.

I think it's Sweden where they have that town where they send mentally ill folks to go live with a
"normal" family for a fee, and the articles I read about it showed it worked beautifully. It was that way with my BIL, who had been homeless on multiple occasions and basically had no parents growing up, my SIL was his parent and she struggled herself. It was really good for him to live with a family who held him accountable for stuff, although it did lead itself to amusing situations where I would be telling off my 11 year old and his "caregiver" for not emptying and refilling the dishwasher and the "BIL" had the meltdown, not my kid. Interesting times, and I'm so glad my BIL is not struggling anymore, though it was rough times at times, imagine trying to impart life skills to a dude with a smidge of bipolar and no common sense whatsoever while paying HIM for the privilege (so he could afford to move out).

There is something to be said for families helping families and the breakdown of our generational family means that problems in a family of origin can be much harder to resolve because of lack of generational family around and general concentration of wealth worse than we saw right before the Great Depression.... We really need a leader right now, but I am not so certain that that person has even shown UP yet.

Anna

 

[CMD-Ky]

I no longer care. The more we "help" the more the problems increase, correlation, who knows? We spend and spend and spend on our help, we are surprised that what we have subsidized has increased.

 

[Two_Bears]

sorry but attitudes like this terrify me.

when the brown matter hits the fan. those people in subsidized housing will be sitting ducks for vigilantes.

bet you didn't know in subsidized housing they have zero right to have a gun ANY GUN.

I no longer care. The more we "help" the more the problems increase, correlation, who knows? We spend and spend and spend on our help, we are surprised that what we have subsidized has increased.

 

[stols001]

I see some truth in that CMD-Ky, but the bigger truth for me is that we "spend and spend" and the amount of CORRUPTION increases, so the money is siphoned off rather quickly by persons in power. But I agree with you that just allocating money solves nothing.

I really, genuinely believe that we are in the kind of situation (like the great depression) where it's going to require a genuinely new mindset to solve problems.

With that said, I am seeing some SLIGHT economic growth in parts of Tucson, but it's not anywhere near enough.

All the great social programs have been raided. There would BE no social security problem if the following politicians had not STOLEN it.

So, I do think social programs can work..... without corruption.

Anna

 

[Two_Bears]

Anna truer words were never spoken. there is a joke that many have heard.

a rich man and a bureaucracy were walking down the sidewalk. .

when a man steps up and says I need help. the rich man pulls $100 bill from his pocket and gives to the man.

another person says I need help. the bureaucrat gets $100 from the rich mans pocket and gives $33.75 to the poor man and keeps the rest.

rich guy why didn't you give him the whole $100.

well there is sale taxes, property taxes, school taxes, maintenance and lawyer fees.

I see some truth in that CMD-Ky, but the bigger truth for me is that we "spend and spend" and the amount of CORRUPTION increases, so the money is siphoned off rather quickly by persons in power. But I agree with you that just allocating money solves nothing.

I really, genuinely believe that we are in the kind of situation (like the great depression) where it's going to require a genuinely new mindset to solve problems.

With that said, I am seeing some SLIGHT economic growth in parts of Tucson, but it's not anywhere near enough.

All the great social programs have been raided. There would BE no social security problem if the following politicians had not STOLEN it.

So, I do think social programs can work..... without corruption.

Anna

 

[Burnie]

Welfare: Don’t Feed The Animals

Let them get a job if they are able, Don't give them handouts. JMHO
That's all I have to say about that.

 

[Two_Bears]

sorry Bernie I can't agree with that.

those that CAN work most certainly SHOULD.

Those that CAN'T what should happen? let them die on the sidewalk and be gathered by the garbage trucks?

sorry but they are a spark of the divine just like everyone.

Thats why i divided the homeless in three categories

View attachment 708417



Welfare: Don’t Feed The Animals

Let them get a job if they are able, Don't give them handouts. JMHO
That's all I have to say about that.

 

[Two_Bears]

I now leave this subthread before the moderator hammer falls.

 

[CMD-Ky]

I now leave this subthread before the moderator hammer falls.

Agreed, we have drifted afar from tootle puffing.

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

A hand up, not a hand out.

However, until the cost of living is stabilized, minimum wage catches up to the cost of living..,

The problem IMO lies less with welfare recipients getting handouts, and more the rich getting richer on the backs of the poor.

For instance, in 2014 just the annual bonuses on Wall Street came to more than all minimum wage earners yearly pay combined.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

 

[lil_buddy]

40% of homeless people are employed.

We can't even guarantee pregnant women paid leave but somehow we're gonna get disabled/ mentally ill people jobs that can provide them with basic necessities? mkay

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

Agreed, we have drifted afar from tootle puffing.

But, but, but...

If you're homeless, where's your vape stash?

There. Back on track (-:

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

 

[aikanae1]

Basic issue is that with a full time minimum wage job someone can't afford an apt. The programs that existed to help a little are being cut. Even citibank figured out (unnecessary) ways to make money off low income food stamps. But housing stock at middle to lower ends are drying up or gone already. Tucson is 1,000 x's better than phoenix. No land trusts or relaxed building codes like tucson.

These are issues that hit every city. Most people can't get a fast food job without internet anymore. Food stamps without an address.

I do agree about reservations which is why I say the druggies go there. They aren't usually in the city where we are.

7 states have wasted millions on substance abuse screenings with near zero results. AZ took $3 mil out of their programs to catch 1 person. It's lack of affordable housing.

Not many homeless are habitual smokers either.



Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

 

[classwife]

I now leave this subthread before the moderator hammer falls.

Agreed, we have drifted afar from tootle puffing.

No hammers...just a little nudge that this really isn't the right thread/area for this topic
Maybe a thread in the Outside Forum might better suit this subject.
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forums/outside.49/

Thankyomuches !

 

[JUMA55]

I no longer care. The more we "help" the more the problems increase, correlation, who knows? We spend and spend and spend on our help, we are surprised that what we have subsidized has increased.

Just like the schools. The higher our taxes go the worse our schools get.