FDA TVECA post table of contents for Deeming Final Rule

[englishmick]

I believe that Non tobacco derived Nicotine can be made to Pharmacy Standards. But the Cost is Off the Charts.

I was wondering, are there any significant users of nicotine except for us and the cigarette makers?

If there are other users that might make a difference as to how easy it would be for them to stop the sale of the stuff, or require licenses for purchase.

 

[snork]

Let's be honest, a lot of blame can go towards ignorant vapers. Blowing huge clouds that makes it look like there's going to be a thunderstorm indoors is quite intimidating to non vapers/smokers. Blowing huge clouds in general does not look healthier than smoking. Regardless of the health benefits with switching to vaping, it "LOOKS" scary to one's health and the health of the surrounding victims. Because of these arrogant idiots, people want them to vape in the same place as the smokers. In a lot of cases, that would mean off of the physical property. Just thank the ignorant cloud chasers who just can't wait till they get to an appropriate place to cause thunderstorms.

Please don't make me ignore this thread.
The prejudice against vapers existed for years before there were any cloud chasers. How about just defending *anybody's* right to engage in an enjoyable, harmless personal activity? Pointing fingers at fellow vapers who happen to be doing it in a way you apparently don't approve pretty much puts you in the same class as the ignoramuses who want to regulate it totally out of existence, in my opinion.

 

[skoony]

It's almost like I Subliminally remember when Mr. Zeller made that Statement.

Zeller also said they couldn't regulate juice with no nicotine. Indiana an Arkansas showed him
a thing or two.

I think it's irrelevant because any vape product that uses nicotine from a source other than tobacco loses the protection tobacco-derived products got under Sottera, i.e. the FDA can just outright ban such products as unapproved drugs or drug delivery devices.

I have heard Mr. Zeller state numerous times that the FDA has No Authority to Regulate Nicotine that is Not Derived from Tobacco Plants as a Tobacco Product.

This is why they are regulating anything and everything you might inhale.Read how they describe e-juice.
There is no specific requirement for there to be nicotine in it.

Let's be honest, a lot of blame can go towards ignorant vapers. Blowing huge clouds

I am 60 years old and have never seen a cloud chaser anywhere in public out side of a vape shop.
Maybe some day before I die I will experience this mysterious phenomenon.

Regards
Mike

 

[snork]

I am 60 years old and have never seen a cloud chaser anywhere in public out side of a vape shop.
Maybe some day before I die I will experience this mysterious phenomenon.

I hope so. Just yesterday I asked a guy to do it. It's pretty cool!

 

[salemgold]

http://thehill.com/regulation/258465-e-cig-firms-steel-for-legal-battle
E-cig firms steel for legal battle
I found this just now. It is worth your time to read.

Love this comment. Truth!


"That's the problem though, the FDA is there to protect the profits of the drug industry. Vaporizers threaten their sales of cessation meds, cessation products, and billions of dollars in medical treatments that they were counting on smokers for.

The FDA does not want a healthy population. The FDA wants a population that spends money on drugs and treatments. They are completely owned and controlled by drug companies, and are led by food and drug company executives. They will not allow anything to hurt drug industry profits, no matter how beneficial it is to society. They've been exiling anyone that comes up with a cure for cancer to Mexico for the last 80 years.

If e cigarettes caused cancer, they'd be embraced by the FDA, like all of the steroids, hormones, pesticides, preservatives, dyes, and other toxic chemicals like floride in your food and water. These people should be lynched for crimes against humanity."

 

[zoiDman]

I was wondering, are there any significant users of nicotine except for us and the cigarette makers?

If there are other users that might make a difference as to how easy it would be for them to stop the sale of the stuff, or require licenses for purchase.

Aside from Researchers, I can't think of any.

 

[Rossum]

http://thehill.com/regulation/258465-e-cig-firms-steel-for-legal-battle
E-cig firms steel for legal battle
I found this just now. It is worth your time to read.

Did any of you catch this:

“The tobacco lobby has long had special access to government officials and if the documents they have are authentic, the American Lung Association is deeply troubled that they have been given a confidential interagency review document,” Erika Sward, the group’s assistance vice president of national advocacy, said in a statement to The Hill.

The implication is that TVECA, CASAA, and all the vapers who contact legislators and the executive branch to protest this regulatory over-reach are part of the "tobacco lobby".

Moreover, the ALA wants these regulations developed in secret, so that we can't protest them until after they go into effect.

Is it time yet?

 

[SeniorBoy]

Did any of you catch this:

The implication is that TVECA, CASAA, and all the vapers who contact legislators and the executive branch to protest this regulatory over-reach are part of the "tobacco lobby".

Moreover, the ALA wants these regulations developed in secret, so that we can't protest them until after they go into effect.

Is it time yet?

Yep! My other takeaway was my concern about the "validity" of these leaked documents. I'm very conservative on information I go to press with and I'm guessing SJ is the same way. When I read the blurb it convinced me that the "leaked" was legit, otherwise why would they object.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Is it time yet?

If it Isn't? Then I Don't When it Will Be.

 

[zoiDman]

Yep! My other takeaway was my concern about the "validity" of these leaked documents. I'm very conservative on information I go to press with and I'm guessing SJ is the same way. When I read the blurb it convinced me that the "leaked" was legit, otherwise why would they object.

I don't Question the Validity of these FDA Draft Documents. Or the Intent of TVECA.

But what I am Cautious of is Reading Too Much into a Draft Document that Probably Isn't the same document that the OIRA is Reviewing.

That, and the Inability for Us to see what Changes the OIRA may have Instructed the FDA to Make.

 

[pennysmalls]

Did any of you catch this:

The implication is that TVECA, CASAA, and all the vapers who contact legislators and the executive branch to protest this regulatory over-reach are part of the "tobacco lobby".

Moreover, the ALA wants these regulations developed in secret, so that we can't protest them until after they go into effect.

Is it time yet?

I absolutely cannot understand how these agencies haven't been able to figure out that there are two vaping industries, BT and us. They cannot be that far out of the loop. So my conclusion is that they do know and are blatantly blurring the lines for the audience they know is watching and the cigar industry being affected/involved helps solidify their mirage.

 

[Oliver]

@pennysmalls It really is crazy, right? But I do understand why it's happened. Put simply, our side of the industry is invisible - the only tracked data on sales comes, via Nielsen, from the C-Store sector which is dominated by the tobacco industry.

That's why I started Vape Manifest project with SFATA/ECigintelligence/Roebling, and we now have data from a properly representative sample of B&Ms which we will be submitting to OIRA once it's been fully analysed. This is big news - we're putting the vape sector on the map, finally.

Once we've got this in from of a few people (financial analysts in particular), it will no longer be possible to claim Big Tobacco ownership of the sector, and it will no longer be possible to ignore the size of the independent industry.

 

[super_X_drifter]

Initial and those responsible for second term Obama supporters - how do you like your change?

This will suck. For many. But I've been stocking up and advising others to do so for years on nic base and bulletproof, easilly serviceable mods.

I kinda am also of the mindset that calous nature of many in the industry just looking to make a buck at any cost and the leagues upon leagues of IG and FB sport vapers as a whole kinda brought this on themselves. Not to mention the public sport vapers.

Yep looks like it's gonna be survivalist mode for a while. But the right new administration in the White House could possibly undo some of the the acts of idiocy that the current jokes there have perpetrated on society - this only being one of them. Dunno.

All I know is when it's time to vote not a vote shall I cast for an incumbent.

 

[sofarsogood]

I was wondering, are there any significant users of nicotine except for us and the cigarette makers?

If there are other users that might make a difference as to how easy it would be for them to stop the sale of the stuff, or require licenses for purchase.

I believe it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to abruptly halt access to nic base to consumers without shutting down all access to all eliquids containing nic. Right now anybody can mix and sell what they make. Here in Michigan the only thing you would need to be legal is a resale tax number so you can collect and pay sales tax and you don't need that if you are selling only to resellers like shops. There are no license requirements. There is no way to tell who is a consumer or a reseller. Perhaps there will be special restrictions in the future but first there would have to be some mechanism to identify who can buy nic otherwise all sales of nic for vaping would have to be illegal. If that reasoning is correct there will be time to buy nic for the freezer--assuming there is no run on supply that the suppliers can't fullfill.

 

[AngiBe]

Well, did my part and wrote both Indiana and White House emails...and I got back what seems to be very canned replies. Why are we not flooding the FDA with calls and emails too? I realize they are a bunch of idiot puppets but so is our Government.

And I really hope our ecig vendors are stepping up and shouting out as well.

 

[skoony]

Nothing happening at TVECA's web site. I wonder what the delay in releasing the
complete draft is?
Regards
mike

 

[zoiDman]

I believe it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to abruptly halt access to nic base to consumers without shutting down all access to all eliquids containing nic. Right now anybody can mix and sell what they make. Here in Michigan the only thing you would need to be legal is a resale tax number so you can collect and pay sales tax and you don't need that if you are selling only to resellers like shops. There are no license requirements. There is no way to tell who is a consumer or a reseller. Perhaps there will be special restrictions in the future but first there would have to be some mechanism to identify who can buy nic otherwise all sales of nic for vaping would have to be illegal. If that reasoning is correct there will be time to buy nic for the freezer--assuming there is no run on supply that the suppliers can't fullfill.

I wonder how quickly after e-liquids/Nicotine Base are Deemed a Tobacco Product by the FDA will this forum be Updated to include a Box for e-Liquids?

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/taxes/336_Tobacco_Products_License_Application_485706_7.pdf

 

[pennysmalls]

@pennysmalls It really is crazy, right? But I do understand why it's happened. Put simply, our side of the industry is invisible - the only tracked data on sales comes, via Nielsen, from the C-Store sector which is dominated by the tobacco industry.

That's why I started Vape Manifest project with SFATA/ECigintelligence/Roebling, and we now have data from a properly representative sample of B&Ms which we will be submitting to OIRA once it's been fully analysed. This is big news - we're putting the vape sector on the map, finally.

Once we've got this in from of a few people (financial analysts in particular), it will no longer be possible to claim Big Tobacco ownership of the sector, and it will no longer be possible to ignore the size of the independent industry.

Thank god! We really need something like that because the confusion between the two industries has been one of the most obvious issues in all of the articles and commentaries that I've come across. It's so evident that the average person believes vaping is all BT's doing so therefore is bad/evil and it's been about impossible to convince anyone that the truth is something far different. I can't thank you and everyone who's doing this project along with everything else you all are doing enough, but please know that you are much appreciated, truly.

 

[zoiDman]

Well, did my part and wrote both Indiana and White House emails...and I got back what seems to be very canned replies. Why are we not flooding the FDA with calls and emails too? I realize they are a bunch of idiot puppets but so is our Government.

And I really hope our ecig vendors are stepping up and shouting out as well.

Right On AngiBe!

 

[pennysmalls]

Nothing happening at TVECA's web site. I wonder what the delay in releasing the
complete draft is?
Regards
mike

They've probably got some very big dogs sniffing their tails.