FDA TVECA post table of contents for Deeming Final Rule

[randyith]

That wouldn't be good. That would show that vapor products are likely to entice someone to switch to them from smoking, and continue using them after they stop smoking, out of a perception that vapor products are less harmful than smoking. All of that would lead to a rejection of the PMTA since the purpose of the FSPTCA is to get people to stop using tobacco products.

I respectfully and strongly disagree.

 

[navigator2011]

One - They won't be 'seen' as doing that because the mainstream media would never portray it in that manner.

Two - they've destroyed other industries, products, jobs, and have harmed many people with regulations either directly by not allowing alternatives or indirectly by forcing them to the black market. I see no reason why this would bother them.

Three - even if they were to admit it, they did it because they 'care about children'. And know what's best for you as well.

I know; I see your points. They can spin the whole thing after they do it. I'm just wondering if they'll want to pull the trigger right as we enter into the campaigning--could be a dangerous time for big moves. Just thoughts, hopes, on my part.

 

[Kent C]

But I Know it When I See It."

Quoting the phrase famously used by United States Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart to describe his threshold test for obscenity in the '60's.

 

[randyith]

One thing that I thought would happen was that Small e-Liquid Businesses would Band Together to share the Expense of PMTA by taking advantage of "Bridging" and Data Sharing.

And when AMESA formed, I thought they would be a Model for Other Trade Orgs.

You all know that AMESA was formed by ECF owners and moderators. Yeah it makes money for them but is nothing more than paying for Kosher certified through the Jewish mafia. RTS has forgot more than AMESA knows. Their fee of $5,000 per month to RTS, based on volume, is ridiculous for a group that adds no value. We have been working all year to get FDA certification which really matters.

 

[zoiDman]

Quoting the phrase famously used by United States Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart to describe his threshold test for obscenity in the '60's.

Yeah... It has been Used Many Time of the Course of Human Endeavors.

BTW - If Anyone is Wondering what the Harkin "Know it when I See It" reference is coming from, check out the "Hearing" in the Quote Below...

Some of these Elected Officials will Say ANYTHING if they Feel it will Help them be Re-Elected.

BTW - Here is Another Senate Hearing featuring Mr. Zeller from the FDA and Mr. McAfee of the CDC answering Questions about e-Cigarettes.

It is Worth watching to seeh Harkin make a Complete Azz of himself. He Removes all doubt that he Knew Absolutely Nothing at the time of this Hearing.

And it is Funny to Watch Mr. Zeller trying to keep his Cool while having to deal with a Rube like Harkin.

FDA Regulation E-Cigarettes | Video | C-SPAN.org

At least in this Hearing, there were Some Moderate Senators who gave it a Little Balance.

 

[Robino1]

You all know that AMESA was formed by ECF owners and moderators.

Um no. No it wasn't. AMESA is not affiliated with ECF in any way.

 

[zoiDman]

You all know that AMESA was formed by ECF owners and moderators. Yeah it makes money for them but is nothing more than paying for Kosher certified through the Jewish mafia. RTS has forgot more than AMESA knows. Their fee of $5,000 per month to RTS, based on volume, is ridiculous for a group that adds no value. We have been working all year to get FDA certification which really matters.

I think that the concept that AMESA formed under had Much Promise. Unfortunately, it just didn't seem to get Off the Ground.

The Point though was in the "Strength in Numbers" approach when it comes to PMTA.

But seeing that I don't know Anything concrete with regards to PMTA or the General Rule Set, it is kinda Hard to even Speculate if such a Group Approach would be Viable.

 

[Kent C]

I know; I see your points. They can spin the whole thing after they do it. I'm just wondering if they'll want to pull the trigger right as we enter into the campaigning--could be a dangerous time for big moves. Just thoughts, hopes, on my part.

Understood. Not sure how much an effect the issue would have on the campaign in general - hopefully, it will have an effect on those here voting but I'm not that optimistic there either :- )

 

[Kent C]

Zman:"And it is Funny to Watch Mr. Zeller trying to keep his Cool while having to deal with a Rube like Harkin."

There was 'some' of that but in general Zeller and Harkin were on the same page (same paragraph, same sentence - different style). Zeller had to keep his cool when questioned by Burr and Alexander.

There was so much information in that hearing from Zeller - his comments about his daughter, hookahs, comments on hard core vs. 'net population' - nicotine renormalization, gateway, and esp. his utilitarian/greatest good/nazi orientation without any reference to the 'rights of individuals' - all of 'their' points really - well described.

 

[Ca Ike]

Understood. Not sure how much an effect the issue would have on the campaign in general - hopefully, it will have an effect on those here voting but I'm not that optimistic there either :- )

Start putting "none of the current candidates" in the write in spot and check it.

 

[zoiDman]

Zman:"And it is Funny to Watch Mr. Zeller trying to keep his Cool while having to deal with a Rube like Harkin."

There was 'some' of that but in general Zeller and Harkin were on the same page (same paragraph, same sentence - different style). Zeller had to keep his cool when questioned by Burr and Alexander.

There was so much information in that hearing from Zeller - his comments about his daughter, hookahs, comments on hard core vs. 'net population' - nicotine renormalization, gateway, and esp. his utilitarian/greatest good/nazi orientation without any reference to the 'rights of individuals' - all of 'their' points really - well described.

You may not Like Mr. Zeller. And that is cool.

But we Could have done a Lot Worse in filling the Desk He occupies at the FDA.

 

[Kent C]

Start putting "none of the current candidates" in the write in spot and check it.

I've tried that. Ended up with a current candidate

 

[Kent C]

But we Could have done a Lot Worse in filling the Desk He occupies at the FDA.

Perhaps Glantz but as far as I can see, they're in lockstep. I think Zeller has thought about this stuff - just that he came to the wrong conclusions - basically because of his 'do gooder' orientation.

 

[zoiDman]

Perhaps Glantz but as far as I can see, they're in lockstep. I think Zeller has thought about this stuff - just that he came to the wrong conclusions - basically because of his 'do gooder' orientation.

I believe that Mr. Zeller Understands that there is a Balance between Science/Health and Public Policy on this Level. I Also think he Understand the He is a Cog in a Very Large Piece of Machinery.

There is Also the Old Say'n that... "If something goes Wrong at the Circus. Don't Yell at the Clowns, Yell at the Ringleader."

I wonder sometimes How Many people know what Sylvia Mathews Burwell does for a Living?

 

[skoony]

If I understand what you are referring to when you use the words "Out Sourced", it really Doesn't Matter. They would still need to submit a PMTA if they want to sell them to an End User.

That is not what it says. It says who ever sells to end users are responsible for all regulatory costs.

They would Contract a Firm to Conduct one for them.

? what?
seriously.
regards
mike

 

[Kent C]

I believe that Mr. Zeller Understands that there is a Balance between Science/Health and Public Policy on this Level.

I think he's smart enough to know that he has to look like he's balancing those ideas. That doesn't mean he actually does. McAfee on the other hand, simply isn't that smart - neither is Frieden.

I Also think he Understand the He is a Cog in a Very Large Piece of Machinery.

He knows that if he screws up like in Sottera, he can lose his job again. Perhaps the reason why he has refined his rhetoric - things like that tend to make people reassess. He's still the same guy though.

I wonder sometimes How Many people know what Sylvia Mathews Burwell does for a Living?

Clinton OMB deputy>Walmart Foundation>B&M Gates Foundation>OMB director (responsible for the 2013 gov't shutdown>HHS Selbelius replacement clone.

Meet Sylvia Burwell, the woman who ordered the government shutdown - NBC News

 

[zoiDman]

That is not what it says. It says who ever sells to end users are responsible for all regulatory costs.



? what?
seriously.
regards
mike

Please site were whatever you are Referring to. And Please Clarify what you are trying to say when you Used the term "Out Sourced".

---

And Yes. Seriously.

 

[zoiDman]

I think he's smart enough to know that he has to look like he's balancing those ideas. That doesn't mean he actually does. McAfee on the other hand, simply isn't that smart - neither is Frieden.



He knows that if he screws up like in Sottera, he can lose his job again. Perhaps the reason why he has refined his rhetoric - things like that tend to make people reassess. He's still the same guy though.



Clinton OMB deputy>Walmart Foundation>B&M Gates Foundation>OMB director (responsible for the 2013 gov't shutdown>HHS Selbelius replacement clone.

Meet Sylvia Burwell, the woman who ordered the government shutdown - NBC News

No Arguments here.

BTW - I wonder How Much of All this does Mr. Zeller have Complete Control over? I mean, he Doesn't even run the FDA.

Right?

 

[pennysmalls]

So glad I went nuts with my last Nicoticket BOGO order. That stuffs getting put in my freezer along with the nic I'm ordering Friday. And here I thought I'd be able to take advantage of one more BOGO order with them in June before Indiana's dooms day in July came. Today I'm vaping some Boba's Bounty that's almost 2 years old, it's still good but it's going into the freezer too. Special occasion juice. I wish I could buy 500ml's of some of my favorite juices to stick in the freezer.

 

[sofarsogood]

If the OMB doesn't shoot this down then I hope they go whole hog, close all the vape shops and online distributors and outlaw everything so I'm even afraid to use my stockpiled nic. That may be the only way to bring clarity to the issues and may be get the kid vapers off their hinies and participating in the first public meeting of their lives.

(It would be a lot easier to give up vaping if tobacco was also banned. Why don't they do that too. I might even support that combination.)

What I'm not going for is extortion. Congress will be willing to soften the rules and let us vape if we pay the same taxes that we did as smokers. That's what all the stupid rules are about, mark my words. Bring on the ban. I used to be a tobacco slave. I will not be a vaping slave.