TVECA press release attacks V2 and SFATA

[Bill Godshall]

Nothing like one e-cigarette trade group attacking another e-cigarette trade group and an e-cig company.
TVECA Claims E-Cig Company V2 Touts Its Products for Quitting Smoking and That... -- ATLANTA, Oct. 4, 2012 /PRNewswire/ --

Looks like TVECA just wants to be the only e-cigarette trade association.

Ray Story, the president of TVECA, previously told me that he was going to meet with the FDA and urge the agency to ban Internet sales of e-cigarettes (since his company didn't sell on the Internet), to ban flavored e-cigarettes (since his company didn't sell flavored e-cigarettes) and to ban the sale of e-cigarettes to minors (which would also severely restrict e-cigarette advertising, sponsorships and promotions).

But the only legal way the FDA could impose any of those three types of regulations on e-cigarettes is by first proposing and approving the "deeming" regulation to apply Chapter IX of the FSPTCA to e-cigarettes (and by amending other sections of the FSPTCA to include those additional e-cig regulations).

Unfortunately, if FDA approves the "deeming" regulation, e-cigarette sales would be effectively banned, and the industry would be decimated.

So TVECA should not be criticizing anyone for "giving the e-cig industry's foes new energy to again attempt to ban this fabulous technology that 3.5 million Americans have now embraced as an option to tobacco cigarettes."

Also, V2 informed me today that the company had removed the ad (that TVECA claimed was "shocking") from You Tube awhile ago, and that somebody else had copied and reposted it. Regardless, the sentence in V2's ad that TVECA criticized may or may not violate the FDCA (as some lawyers would say yes and others would say no).

 

[DC2]

TVECA is a poison to every electronic cigarette user.
And they are every bit as dangerous to us as Big Pharma is.

Let's just hope Lorillard doesn't turn out to be of the same ilk.
I'm still holding out some hope on that one, even if it is somewhat naive.

 

[sonicdsl]

TVECA is a poison to every electronic cigarette user.
And they are every bit as dangerous to us as Big Pharma is.

Let's just hope Lorillard doesn't turn out to be of the same ilk.
I'm still holding out some hope on that one, even if it is somewhat naive.

So we're boycotting TVECA? I don't like what I see so far of them, but OTOH, we need unity.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Vocalek]

in light of a December 10, 2010 court decision that mandates that e-cigs are indeed tobacco products

Actually, the decision in that case (Smoking Everywhere & NJOY versus FDA) didn't mention "tobacco products." Judge Leon's opinion was not a "mandate" that e-cigarettes are tobacco products. It was a suggested solution to the the FDA's concern that if they did not regulate the products as drugs, the products would be totally unregulated and could present safety issues. The Judge pointed out that the newly passed Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act defined "tobacco product" as an product "made of or derived from tobacco." He also pointed out that e-cigarettes seemed to typify the entire idea of a modifed risk tobacco product.

There are a couple of problems with considering Judge Leon's opinion a "mandate."

1) Only cigarettes and smokeless tobacco are currently covered under the act. An e-cigarette is neither. As Bill has pointed out many times in this forum, the FDA could not begin to write regulations for e-cigarette manufacturing and sales until the agency first issues a Deeming regulation, announcing that it intends to regulate the products.
2) The FDA has already issued "industry guidance" (sneaky way of issuing regulations) on modified risk tobacco products (MRTP). Essentially the agency set up a long list of testing that has to be accomplished before the FDA will consider deciding whether or not it modifies risk. The FDA has made MRTP status as difficult to obtain as getting approval for sale of a new prescription drug.
3) But the biggest problem, as (again) Bill poined out in the past, is that if the FDA decides to interpret the law literally and apply all sections to e-cigs, then any product that was not on the market prior to February 2007 would have to be taken off the market.

Welcome back to the world of white batteries with brown cartridges, with batteries dying after only a few hours, and weak delivery of vapor. Oh, and possibly only tobacco or menthol as the choice of flavors, and the "high" level of nicotine = 16 mg.

 

[sonicdsl]

Actually, the decision in that case (Smoking Everywhere & NJOY versus FDA) didn't mention "tobacco products." Judge Leon's opinion was not a "mandate" that e-cigarettes are tobacco products. It was a suggested solution to the the FDA's concern that if they did not regulate the products as drugs, the products would be totally unregulated and could present safety issues. The Judge pointed out that the newly passed Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act defined "tobacco product" as an product "made of or derived from tobacco." He also pointed out that e-cigarettes seemed to typify the entire idea of a modifed risk tobacco product.

There are a couple of problems with considering Judge Leon's opinion a "mandate."

1) Only cigarettes and smokeless tobacco are currently covered under the act. An e-cigarette is neither. As Bill has pointed out many times in this forum, the FDA could not begin to write regulations for e-cigarette manufacturing and sales until the agency first issues a Deeming regulation, announcing that it intends to regulate the products.
2) The FDA has already issued "industry guidance" (sneaky way of issuing regulations) on modified risk tobacco products (MRTP). Essentially the agency set up a long list of testing that has to be accomplished before the FDA will consider deciding whether or not it modifies risk. The FDA has made MRTP status as difficult to obtain as getting approval for sale of a new prescription drug.
3) But the biggest problem, as (again) Bill poined out in the past, is that if the FDA decides to interpret the law literally and apply all sections to e-cigs, then any product that was not on the market prior to February 2007 would have to be taken off the market.

Welcome back to the world of white batteries with brown cartridges, with batteries dying after only a few hours, and weak delivery of vapor. Oh, and possibly only tobacco or menthol as the choice of flavors, and the "high" level of nicotine = 16 mg.

Scary stuff indeed. I wish more people would get active in these subs (Legislation & Media/News), as well as CASAA. I also wish that there was a forward-thinking, progressive and smart trade organization for the vendors, and that most or all would join. (If wishes were horses...).

I know some people aren't worried as they have the equipment they need, or will build what they need, and will DIY their own liquid, etc., but most of the vapers won't or can't build or DIY hardware or liquid, and therein lies the scary part (with regards to FDA taking things back in time 5 years). Not only that, but it will keep current smokers from becoming new vapers because the kits will be horrible and expensive again, as everything will be archaic and/or dull.

The industry as a whole is but a tiny David against the Goliath made up of BP and their lackeys (FDA, ANTZ groups, etc.) as it is. We need more people involved to get the information here (from CASAA, Bill, Carl, Michael & others), and help educate the rest of the world. As it is, too many of us are apathetic or too comfortable and don't get involved.

If the majority of us can't get united and involved, why should anyone else be compelled to help?

Just my

 

[Luisa]

Scary stuff indeed. I wish more people would get active in these subs (Legislation & Media/News), as well as CASAA. I also wish that there was a forward-thinking, progressive and smart trade organization for the vendors, and that most or all would join. (If wishes were horses...).

I know some people aren't worried as they have the equipment they need, or will build what they need, and will DIY their own liquid, etc., but most of the vapers won't or can't build or DIY hardware or liquid, and therein lies the scary part (with regards to FDA taking things back in time 5 years). Not only that, but it will keep current smokers from becoming new vapers because the kits will be horrible and expensive again, as everything will be archaic and/or dull.

The industry as a whole is but a tiny David against the Goliath made up of BP and their lackeys (FDA, ANTZ groups, etc.) as it is. We need more people involved to get the information here (from CASAA, Bill, Carl, Michael & others), and help educate the rest of the world. As it is, too many of us are apathetic or too comfortable and don't get involved.

If the majority of us can't get united and involved, why should anyone else be compelled to help?

Just my

Bump Bump Bump

 

[DC2]

If the majority of us can't get united and involved, why should anyone else be compelled to help?

I could be wrong, but I think the problem is lack of knowledge and understanding.

I just think that the vast majority of vapers don't know and understand the threats facing us.
So of course, education would be the solution to that.

There needs to be a thread that provides a brief legal history of electronic cigarettes.
And a brief history of CASAA.

And that thread needs to have links to pertinent sources that go into detail on the various issues we face.
And it needs to have links to CASAA, and the Legislative News subforum.

And this forum needs to make sure that thread is appropriately titled, and in the face of every vaper.

But since all of that is unlikely to happen, then here is what I am hoping for...
When the FDA issues their "deeming" regulations, all vapers will become aware and motivated to action.

And if that doesn't happen, then we will get exactly what we deserve.

 

[sirchunk]

I just think that the vast majority of vapers don't know and understand the threats facing us.
So of course, education would be the solution to that.

Surely the vendors across the world can message their clients informing them of the current situation and the actions needed to be implemented by them. (unless I've missed it, I am from the UK)

Why can't something like this happen?
Just think of the penetration they all could have if they decided to invest a tiny bit of money to successfully secure the future of their business.

 

[mrfixit]

Well I think if we find a couple of good lawyers who are also Vapers and they stand to loose their vapping rights we might have a good chance of fighting this. It is going to take not only involvement but money to do this. I've said this before the FDA is being told what to here and they are way more afraid of big money than of us at this point. I stumbled across a site that was about copd and those folks with it are using e cigarettes to get off their inhalers and meds also oxygen in a lot of cases. We need medical professionals on our side we need studies done by the industry to show the benefits of vapping. We as a community can only do so much. We need to start an ad campaign that shows the FDA in its true form much like the ones we see during election cycles. Let's get the real facts out and in the public eye. The FDA does not truly have anyones best intrest in mind just look at all the drugs that have been pulled from the shelves ones they approved for our consumption only to find out they were not properly tested or results of studies were fudged. Fight fire with fire.

 

[Vocalek]

Well I think if we find a couple of good lawyers who are also Vapers and they stand to loose their vapping rights we might have a good chance of fighting this. It is going to take not only involvement but money to do this. I've said this before the FDA is being told what to here and they are way more afraid of big money than of us at this point. I stumbled across a site that was about copd and those folks with it are using e cigarettes to get off their inhalers and meds also oxygen in a lot of cases. We need medical professionals on our side we need studies done by the industry to show the benefits of vapping. We as a community can only do so much. We need to start an ad campaign that shows the FDA in its true form much like the ones we see during election cycles. Let's get the real facts out and in the public eye. The FDA does not truly have anyones best intrest in mind just look at all the drugs that have been pulled from the shelves ones they approved for our consumption only to find out they were not properly tested or results of studies were fudged. Fight fire with fire.

How about a link to that COPD site?

 

[TennDave]

With all of this in mind (and from what TVECA is doing- btw, I do not see that they have people's health as a concern at all- only profits)...

I think I'm going to start a pyramid e-cig scheme!!
No more internet sales in the future or brick and mortar stores?
No problem- word of mouth and weekly e-cig parties (like Tupperware) we'll have!!

 

[DC2]

How about a link to that COPD site?

That's what I was thinking too...