Understanding V’s, W’s and A’s

[listopencil]

So does this sound about right to you?

I think you got that 5 Volts number based on info from a very old test where someone ran an atomizer at a higher power level than what it was meant for. That is; someone grabbed a tank with a coil that was designed to fire at, say, 3.5 Volts or so and cranked it up. They weren't vaping on it. They were trying to destructively test it until it failed and produced profoundly unhealthy results. They achieved that and then started reporting 5 Volts as the danger level.

 

[VapourFlavour]

I have one rta that my builds are always .70 - .80 and run them at 6.5 volts.

 

[vapdivrr]

I use to run a 1.5 ohm coil in my old provari at 5v and it only equaled 15 watts and 3.5 amps. It was a wimpy vape compared to today's standards, so you really need a different parameter like temp to go by

 

[dripster]

This is wrong. Formaldehyde at DANGEROUS levels doesn't start to occur until it starts tasting nasty, but it does start being produced in smaller quantities at temps well below scorching/dry hit levels. The chart I posted above was created by mikepetro from here on ECF and has essentially been corroborated by 2 different pro-vaping researchers. Many if not most people vape in the ranges listed where formaldehyde occurs. In fact, here is a thread someone just started a few hours ago that is vaping well into formaldehyde territory and "getting good flavor". Again I am NOT saying these are necessarily dangerous levels of formaldehyde but it IS present. If you don't know what temp you are vaping at then you don't know what levels of aldehydes may be in your vapor. If you don't care, that's fine too, but using TC is the only way to KNOW within a reasonable certainty, especially if you want to be at 0 formaldehyde levels.

To me, personally, reminiscent of a dry hit is well below scorching/dry hit levels. I don't need TC to know I'm well below reminiscent of a dry hit so the reality is I'm double-well below scorching/dry hit levels as I build my own advanced coil builds and I take all the relevant factors properly into account, including choice of atomizer, power, heat flux, wicking properties of both the coils and the wicks inside them, airflow adjustment, draw strength, and I only vape high VG juices. What those people describe as "getting good flavor" is what I call a semi-dry hit that tastes noticeably poor in comparison to the flavor you get in absence of overheating the juice so only those who simply are incapable of knowing what truly defines good flavor, and how to achieve it, are in need of TC because TC is like training wheels on a bicycle, i.e. designed to be used specifically by only those who have a tendency to pitfall.

 

[Zaryk]

 

[ScottP]

To me, personally, reminiscent of a dry hit is well below scorching/dry hit levels. I don't need TC to know I'm well below reminiscent of a dry hit so the reality is I'm double-well below scorching/dry hit levels as I build my own advanced coil builds and I take all the relevant factors properly into account, including choice of atomizer, power, heat flux, wicking properties of both the coils and the wicks inside them, airflow adjustment, draw strength, and I only vape high VG juices. What those people describe as "getting good flavor" is what I call a semi-dry hit that tastes noticeably poor in comparison to the flavor you get in absence of overheating the juice so only those who simply are incapable of knowing what truly defines good flavor, and how to achieve it, are in need of TC because TC is like training wheels on a bicycle, i.e. designed to be used specifically by only those who have a tendency to pitfall.

Well all I can say is you are a super special individual with the ability to 100% accurately detect coil temp by taste alone. However, telling everyone else that doesn't have a thermometer for a tongue that they will be able to tell just by taste when they have reached formaldehyde producing levels is completely incorrect and is doing them a disservice by giving them a false sense of security while possibly causing them to vape at less safe temps than they think they are.

I have seen posts here of people doing TC at 550F to 600F and saying they love the flavor at that level. They are definitely not tasting dry/burnt/formaldehyde taste but are not only producing formaldehyde at that level they may even be exceeding cigarette levels at those temps. If these people read your statements, and believed you, they would INCORRECTLY believe they are not getting any formaldehyde when in fact they are getting quite a lot. So I stand by my statement, if anyone wants to KNOW they are in the safER ranges they should use TC. If they don't care to know, or believe they have a thermometer tongue, then they are free to vape whatever.

 

[Zakillah]

Setting TC for these temps is like not using TC at all and just because you set the mod to 550F doesn't mean the coil will actually reach this temperature.
600F is beyond the boiling point of pure VG; so at this point you´re dry hitting for sure.

 

[Ryedan]

To me, personally, reminiscent of a dry hit is well below scorching/dry hit levels. I don't need TC to know I'm well below reminiscent of a dry hit so the reality is I'm double-well below scorching/dry hit levels as I build my own advanced coil builds and I take all the relevant factors properly into account, including choice of atomizer, power, heat flux, wicking properties of both the coils and the wicks inside them, airflow adjustment, draw strength, and I only vape high VG juices. What those people describe as "getting good flavor" is what I call a semi-dry hit that tastes noticeably poor in comparison to the flavor you get in absence of overheating the juice so only those who simply are incapable of knowing what truly defines good flavor, and how to achieve it, are in need of TC because TC is like training wheels on a bicycle, i.e. designed to be used specifically by only those who have a tendency to pitfall.

It has been proven that you can not taste when juice starts to degrade. It still tastes perfect to the vast majority of people. By the time that most people would taste a hint of degradation, it's way more than just starting.

I have no idea if at that point it is dangerous, and this would also probably depend on what you consider dangerous. IMO it is at that point still better for us than smoking, but it's still worse than what it could be if it was not degrading to the point of making nasties.

I have seen posts here of people doing TC at 550F to 600F and saying they love the flavor at that level. They are definitely not tasting dry/burnt/formaldehyde taste but are not only producing formaldehyde at that level they may even be exceeding cigarette levels at those temps. If these people read your statements, and believed you, they would INCORRECTLY believe they are not getting any formaldehyde when in fact they are getting quite a lot. So I stand by my statement, if anyone wants to KNOW they are in the safER ranges they should use TC. If they don't care to know, or believe they have a thermometer tongue, then they are free to vape whatever.

IMO people doing TC set at 550 deg are not actually vaping with a 550 deg coil. They are set up watt limited not temperature limited, meaning their coils are not getting enough power (watts) to heat up to their set temperature. They don't know what temperature their coils are at.

Also, some folks vaping in TC mode are not calibrating their hardware properly and because of that their mods are not reading their coils at the right temperature. This can happen even with the best TC boards out there.

In both of these instances they don't know what their coil temps really are.

TC as it's done today is a fickle beast that requires a good understanding of how it all works and the conditions that need to be considered and handled to make it reasonably accurate.

Guys ... relax . Both of you raise some good points about this stuff but there is more to it than what is immediately obvious.

Vape on my friends

 

[Zakillah]

It has been proven IMO it is at that point still better for us than smoking, but it's still worse than what it could be if it was not degrading to the point of making nasties.

Its not possible to make a vape more dangerous then a cigarette.
Sure, you can generate higher Aldehyde emmisions for a puff; but will anybody keep vaping (semi) dry hits? No.
You cant produce high numbers (or even anything at all) of CO, Nitrosamines, Ammonia, PAHs, heavy metals, cigarette tar, etc; no matter how hot your vape is.

 

[dripster]

Well all I can say is you are a super special individual with the ability to 100% accurately detect coil temp by taste alone. However, telling everyone else that doesn't have a thermometer for a tongue that they will be able to tell just by taste when they have reached formaldehyde producing levels is completely incorrect and is doing them a disservice by giving them a false sense of security while possibly causing them to vape at less safe temps than they think they are.

I have seen posts here of people doing TC at 550F to 600F and saying they love the flavor at that level. They are definitely not tasting dry/burnt/formaldehyde taste but are not only producing formaldehyde at that level they may even be exceeding cigarette levels at those temps. If these people read your statements, and believed you, they would INCORRECTLY believe they are not getting any formaldehyde when in fact they are getting quite a lot. So I stand by my statement, if anyone wants to KNOW they are in the safER ranges they should use TC. If they don't care to know, or believe they have a thermometer tongue, then they are free to vape whatever.

I never said I'm able to 100% accurately detect coil temp by taste alone. Just that TC isn't required to be able to stay well below those coil temps, and, just because there will always be those who love the taste of burnt car tyres, doesn't mean every normal person does, nor does it mean normal people can't detect the difference between juice evaporated at normal temps and juice getting overheated.

 

[dripster]

My juice gets turned to vapor so fast it doesn't have time to form formaldehyde.

 

[dripster]

It has been proven that you can not taste when juice starts to degrade. It still tastes perfect to the vast majority of people. By the time that most people would taste a hint of degradation, it's way more than just starting.

If you can't taste the difference and you can't bump the watts down another notch after you can no longer taste the degradation, then you need to put your vaping setup behind the tyre of your car and drive backwards.

 

[ScottP]

I am not going to argue with you. I have gotten the truth out there.

 

[JJ Hair]

I am not going to argue with you. I have gotten the truth out there.

So I looked at the chart you posted and made the comparisn of my juices components 75/25 vg/pg and have been using tc at 500/550/80w which has been good or vaping at 60 watts which has an even fuller flavour but i have to assume is hotter than the above temps. So you believe that if there is zero burnt or unplesant taste that the measuremnt of toxin would be comparible to that chart? Sorry to bother you i just get confused when there are si many contesting opinions. My goal is simple. I have aqquired knwledge in battery safety. I know I am not over drawing from my batttery. I just want the safest vaping experince with the best flavour I can achieve. I appreciate your time soent posting in reaponse to my questions.

 

[tailland]

have been using tc at 500/550/80w which has been good or vaping at 60 watts which has an even fuller flavour but i have to assume is hotter than the above temps. So you believe that if there is zero burnt or unplesant taste that the measuremnt of toxin would be comparible to that chart?

Not everything that's bad for you tastes equally bad :ß

Spoiler

If you want to have some informational fun with degrading metal:
Take your self-built coil , dryburn it at moderate watts, watch what the heat-up pattern on the coil looks like. THEN, do the same thing but with much higher watts. You'll be surprised about how the heating pattern turns around, plus you can see the exact moment when the coil gives up on life. Because jet fuel and steel beams and shiet.

 

[tailland]

(del)

 

[ScottP]

So I looked at the chart you posted and made the comparisn of my juices components 75/25 vg/pg and have been using tc at 500/550/80w which has been good or vaping at 60 watts which has an even fuller flavour but i have to assume is hotter than the above temps. So you believe that if there is zero burnt or unplesant taste that the measuremnt of toxin would be comparible to that chart? Sorry to bother you i just get confused when there are si many contesting opinions. My goal is simple. I have aqquired knwledge in battery safety. I know I am not over drawing from my batttery. I just want the safest vaping experince with the best flavour I can achieve. I appreciate your time soent posting in reaponse to my questions.

PG and VG start to degrade at specific temperatures, not specific tastes. So if you are vaping at temps above the degradation points then yes you will be getting some toxins regardless of taste. Again still safer than cigarettes but not as safe as possible.

 

[JJ Hair]

PG and VG start to degrade at specific temperatures, not specific tastes. So if you are vaping at temps above the degradation points then yes you will be getting some toxins regardless of taste. Again still safer than cigarettes but not as safe as possible.

Ok thanks again for your time

 

[dripster]

PG and VG start to degrade at specific temperatures, not specific tastes. So if you are vaping at temps above the degradation points then yes you will be getting some toxins regardless of taste. Again still safer than cigarettes but not as safe as possible.

TC makes me want to smoke a cigarette. Ergo, TC is extremely very unsafe...

 

[dripster]

I am not going to argue with you. I have gotten the truth out there.

So then stop arguing with me. The simple truth is people can learn how to build coils that don't overheat the juice if the coils are positioned correctly in an atomizer the airflow in which is focused correctly onto the coils, just like people can learn how to make proper use of that combination of factors by controlling their draw strength properly; they just can't learn it from people like you because the other important truth is that's just what hogwash always tends to be like.