Vapelicious?

[Faylool]

I absolutely agree that 24 mg will not be as relaxing as 12. This took me too long to figure out too! Due to this thread I'm not going to be vaping my plain nic DIY in the evening anymore. Only WTA premade at 12mg or lower or DIYWTA if its available. There IS the option to vape more as in chain vape restless stuff if I were to order 24 mg WTA premades and cut it in half doing my boost flavor thing BUT I won't until my finances say I must because its a hassle. Hope this makes sense. Yes I'd be getting half the WTA but I think lowering the nic in half will compensate for that a little and just a way to stretch the dollar. After all and still the snus and snuff are going to be the real deal and WTA is just keeping vape honest, meaning more natural so me, moi, do not get agitated and wigged out on too much nic.

 

[hittman]

Yes, including me. And I'm certain Dvap and I can discuss any mis-communication that may have arisen when we are here at the same time. He doesn't require anyone to have his back from me. I explained what disturbed me and there isn't any defending required.

That's fine. I was merely stating the obvious. You know, just thinking out loud. Trust me, I am well aware that Dvap is able to take care of himself.

 

[DVap]

This makes complete sense.

So if anyone claims that they can have xtra high WTA in an x mg nicotine dosage then what they really are saying is that they are giving you an x mg (100% WTA) isolate and calling anything 'high' 'medium' or 'low' WTA is really just diluting the WTA isolate with pure non-WTA nicotine.

My assumptions run in this direction, yes.

A telling factor would be price, if it's going way up, you're likely getting more.

 

[Mr.Mann]

So, if I were bottling the stuff, I would label the 20 mg/mL WTA exclusive e-liquid as: 20 mg/mL (100% WTA). I would label the other liquid as: 20 mg/mL (50% WTA).

I think since the D came back, we can now safely say that no vendor is selling WTA-exclusive juice (like in what was sampled in his original experiment) at any strengths (see D's post #170 for different strengths of WTA-exclusive liquid). And

[o]nce you make a non-WTA exclusive e-liquid, it is altered from the natural spread. I would have to assume that most all WTA e-liquid you can get is non-WTA exclusive.

If everything is on the up-and-up, the 95% nic/ 5% other minor alkaloids spread will not change in the initial extraction, but once "spiked" with nic, the 5% then shrinks depending upon how much non-WTA nic goes back in. This would not be the same as "in a cigarette" for the final product, no?

I think the different levels that Ethan offers has been thought of as, from what I gather, his WTA-exclusive liquid, i.e., from the initial extraction, was somehow different strengths e.g., low, medium, high, x-tra high. I think, I repeat, think that those levels are simply varying degrees of how much WTA-exclusive liquid he puts into any particular recipe. This would explain why his different levels cost more based on the amount of WTA because it is not constant as how Aroma chooses to do theirs.

Is this flawed logic?

 

[DVap]

Thank you for saving my life.

Not sure what to say... thanks for not dying!

 

[Mr.Mann]

I think the issue of "messing with the levels" was pertaining more to the WTA-exclusive natural spread and not the final product? And although the final product will have less than 5% minor alkaloids if mixed with non-WTA nic, I don't think it would be possible to have more than 5% minor alkaloids no matter the concentration per mg/mL.

 

[DVap]

I have a tremendous respect for Dvap, always have. Which is why I was really disappointed to read this, "while Ethan might be catering to the mutants who would otherwise be taking nicotine on an IV drip." I felt it was a cheap shot at his customers, me being one, and truthfully, I expected better.

The statement, "...while Ethan might be catering to the mutants who would otherwise be taking nicotine on an IV drip." can be rewritten with it's unambiguous intended meaning as "...While Ethan might be catering to the highly addicted individuals would would otherwise be smoking or vaping dangerously high levels."

You misunderstood my version of humor. Sorry about that.

I tend to call many of my friends and acquaintances here such things as, "Mutants, degenerates (especially the snus folks), and worse. It is good-natured teasing and I've found that it has been almost universally taken as such. It might sound silly or even childish, but that's me. I also use such terms generically.

So I apologize for my manner, which I guess can be misunderstood. If we're on the level now, that's good. If you still have a problem, then it's your problem.

 

[Mr.Mann]

In this land of RBA/genesis attys with everyone vaping 6 mg and 12 mg juices (12 mg can be considered high for that type of atty), I felt proud in that moment to think of myself as a mutant with my 32 mg juice (low TB level, LOL).

Hell, nowadays I can barely give away 18 mg juice and above!

 

[DVap]

I think the different levels that Ethan offers has been thought of as, from what I gather, his WTA-exclusive liquid, i.e., from the initial extraction, was somehow different strengths e.g., low, medium, high, x-tra high. I think, I repeat, think that those levels are simply varying degrees of how much WTA-exclusive liquid he puts into any particular recipe. This would explain why his different levels cost more based on the amount of WTA because it is not constant as how Aroma chooses to do theirs.

Is this flawed logic?

It looks solid to me.

Taking you at your word that Ethan's prices are variable solidifies my assumptions about how one vendor mixes WTA as opposed to the other.

I believe that Jerry's WTA liquids contain a constant level of WTA, with nicotine added if the customer wants the higher 24 mg version. I also believe that Ethan's WTA liquids contain variable levels of WTA. I'm not certain I've got the products pegged, but I'd bet at least my lunch money. Better yet, I'll bet Hittman's lunch money. Less exposure for me.

Which one is better? That's a trick question because it's the wrong question. Apples and oranges are both fruit, but they're different fruits.

It's a consumer driven market. Factors such as price, product, customer service, etc will drive the buying decision. I'm simply doing what I can to clear up the confusion and rampant speculation about the nature of the products themselves.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I'm simply doing what I can to clear up the confusion and rampant speculation about the nature of the products themselves.

I'd say that you did that well and with a quickness!

 

[hittman]

It looks solid to me.

Taking you at your word that Ethan's prices are variable solidifies my assumptions about how one vendor mixes WTA as opposed to the other.

I believe that Jerry's WTA liquids contain a constant level of WTA, with nicotine added if the customer wants the higher 24 mg version. I also believe that Ethan's WTA liquids contain variable levels of WTA. I'm not certain I've got the products pegged, but I'd bet at least my lunch money. Better yet, I'll bet Hittman's lunch money. Less exposure for me.

Which one is better? That's a trick question because it's the wrong question. Apples and oranges are both fruit, but they're different fruits.

It's a consumer driven market. Factors such as price, product, customer service, etc will drive the buying decision. I'm simply doing what I can to clear up the confusion and rampant speculation about the nature of the products themselves.

You know what? I'd give you my lunch money to bet on it. However, I don't know if anyone would accept a bet made with pennies.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I am now clear(er) on:

1) What the different strengths of the original experiment meant (varying strengths of mg/mL of the natural spread)
2) What WTA-exclusive liquid is (something I will never have LOL)
3) How it's possible for Aroma to have the same quantity/amount of minor alkaloids in 12 mg and 24 mg (I should've never increased my nic)
4) How it's possible for Ethan to have different WTA levels in conjunction with different levels of nic (varying degrees of WTA-exclsuive liquid)
5) What the natural spread is (95% nicotine / 5% minor alkaloids)
6) What the natural spread is not (basically, what we have available)

What I am not clear(est) on:

1) The actual strength of WTA-exclusive liquid that goes in any one juice (what is the strength it is diluted down to before its inclusion into the recipe?)
2) What types of tobacco are used per vendor and if/how much of a difference that makes to the product?
3) What is the underlying issue behind Vapelicious' order fulfillment?
5) How this thread managed to stay as calm and pleasant as it did? (incredible!)
6) Did the OP's question ever get answered?

 

[Faylool]

I'd like it twice if possible.

 

[hittman]

Mr Mann, if I understood correctly then in an exclusive liquid that was made at 20mg then it would be 1mg or 5% minor alkaloids. I think that's what you are asking in number 1. I could be wrong though.

 

[PLANofMAN]

What I am not clear(est) on:

1) The actual strength of WTA-exclusive liquid that goes in any one juice (what is the strength it is diluted down to before its inclusion into the recipe?)
2) What types of tobacco are used per vendor and if/how much of a difference that makes to the product?
3) What is the underlying issue behind Vapelicious' order fulfillment?
5) How this thread managed to stay as calm and pleasant as it did? (incredible!)
6) Did the OP's question ever get answered?

I might be able to add a bit to question #2. It's a video from a recent thread, here: Question about WTA's

The thread contains a discussion about Aroma's tobacco selection. I don't know if Ethan has ever revealed where he sources his tobacco from or what kind of tobacco he uses.

 

[firechick]

I tend to call many of my friends and acquaintances here such things as, "Mutants, degenerates (especially the snus folks), and worse. It is good-natured teasing and I've found that it has been almost universally taken as such. It might sound silly or even childish, but that's me. I also use such terms generically.

I freely admit to being a mutant degenerate who learned a great deal from the original thread, and appreciate all that DVap did to unravel the WTA mystery and set the ball rolling for more effective eliquid for those of us who couldn't quit with nicotine alone. There will always be fans of specific vendors and arguments over who is better.

Thanks again, DVap. And thanks again hitt for volunteering (my fellow degenerate ).

 

[Mr.Mann]

Mr Mann, if I understood correctly then in an exclusive liquid that was made at 20mg then it would be 1mg or 5% minor alkaloids. I think that's what you are asking in number 1. I could be wrong though.

Here's the thing, I am not even sure if that is what I am asking. See, when D first made the extraction, he said what he ended up with was

...alkaloids that I recovered from whole tobacco (whole tobacco alkaloids, as I called them), were an amber to copper colored liquid with a strong odor of nicotine... and in their purified form, quite capable of killing me a good number of times over.

then he

...diluted these alkaloids down to 30 mg with my favorite PG/VG blend...

My question is are the recipes that are available for purchase having WTA from the purified source or from a diluted source like 48 mg/mL, 30 mg/ml, 24 mg/mL? We've already established that whatever the strength prior to the recipe, after the recipe it's getting diluted due to nic spike, so I was just wondering how diluted it was before being added to the final product

Don't know if that question makes any sense. Kinda in the weeds on this one.

 

[redrose]

The statement, "...while Ethan might be catering to the mutants who would otherwise be taking nicotine on an IV drip." can be rewritten with it's unambiguous intended meaning as "...While Ethan might be catering to the highly addicted individuals would would otherwise be smoking or vaping dangerously high levels."

You misunderstood my version of humor. Sorry about that.

I tend to call many of my friends and acquaintances here such things as, "Mutants, degenerates (especially the snus folks), and worse. It is good-natured teasing and I've found that it has been almost universally taken as such. It might sound silly or even childish, but that's me. I also use such terms generically.

So I apologize for my manner, which I guess can be misunderstood. If we're on the level now, that's good. If you still have a problem, then it's your problem.

Nice save Professor! We're good. Thank you.

 

[snork]

My question is are the recipes that are available for purchase having WTA from the purified source or from a diluted source like 48 mg/mL, 30 mg/ml, 24 mg/mL? We've already established that whatever the strength prior to the recipe, after the recipe it's getting diluted due to nic spike, so I was just wondering how diluted it was before being added to the final product

Don't know if that question makes any sense. Kinda in the weeds on this one.

I don't think I'm understanding your question completely, but I can tell you this. When I saw that little ramekin of pure and deadly nicotine and TA at Jerry's lab I asked "Now what?" he said he had to dilute it and titrate it to whatever strength necessary (what constitutes necessary I don't really know) and that various batches had to be customized and tweaked because the TAs in various blends and batches of tobacco varied. Labor intensive and time consuming.

 

[hittman]

Mann, I think I understand what you are asking but I don't know the answer.

Dvap, you're up!