Vaping and fatty liver

[AXIOM_1]

If I had known that's what you meant I would have at least agreed. But honestly, it really didn't come off that way.

At any rate, water under the bridge, and we're good as far as I'm concerned.

LOL .... Brother, truly do NOT worry about it .... I have been operating PC's before there was ever an "official" internet... One of the problems with textual media (chat rooms, posts, emails etc) is that you do not get the full picture about what the other person may be trying to communicate with you... You can't see their body language or facial features... Too make matters worse, lots of people on forums do not know each other very well (unless they make an effort to do so)....

You know what is really funny? After I wrote my initial post, I re-read the post and realized that it sort of sounded "harsh" or a bit strange.... But I decided not to edit it or change anything because lots of members here know my character and so I "assumed" that it would not offend anyone and that they would know that I was talking about the subject of our strange addiction... Well, I assumed "wrong" it seems because you took it wrong.... That's okay Brother, because like I say, it is easy to do on the text-based sites..... It's all good Brother

 

[CCVapes23]

Since being diagnosed with fatty liver, I’ve only been having one to two stinkiest a day ( that’s really good for me ) and that one is usually in the morning and the other on the way home from work. Since eating ALOT of fruits and veggies, and working out 3-4 days a week, I’ve noticed that i’m breathing a lot better, my boot pressure has went down. It’s usually 145/82 now it’s around 120-125 over 75-82 range. Crazy how much smoking affects your body and vaping doesn’t as bad. It’s all about HARM REDUCTION. This just shows me that vaping IS better. I’ve also refrained from any alcohol or drugs since my diagnosis and I am feeling ally better. Im not obese or anything either.,. Just had a poor diet. I’m 6/2 223 but probably lower now since I haven’t weighed myself. Just thought I’d share!’ Thanks for all the support. Really is making it easier.

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[Eskie]

The link above isn't working so not sure what the new issue is.

I do not believe vaping is harmless. I do believe that labeling vaping as responsible for illness for which there is no evidence is harmful as it simply gives smokers another opportunity to pass on what might be a method of stopping that will not be tried due to unfounded fear.

You stated in your first posts that you were found to have fatty liver with abnormal liver function tests although "not high". You also said you drank 10-15 beers per day which is an extremely high alcohol consumption rate regardless of age. You also used other drugs of abuse. Both are more than sufficient to explain your liver findings, and it would be impossible to attribute any of that problem to vaping.

You were also diagnosed with Celiac disease (if I read that correctly). Celiac disease can cause many of not all thrvabdominal complaints you had along with the alcohol and drugs. Again, with that history attributing vaping as a cause would be medically and scientifically impossible. Only after an extended period of abstinence from all drugs, including alcohol, and an extended period of a gluten free diet with resolution of all your symptoms and only then challenging with using a vape with recurrence of all your problems could you even begin to tie them together and even then it's at best anecdotal.

As for the challenge for sugar craving, well I've gone from DIY no sweeteners for a period of time to commercial heavily sweetened juice and back again without any sugar craving, weight changes, or other issues. That lack of a difference is also at best anecdotal as it only applies to a single person, me. However, I would expect any large population study comparing the two looking for sugar craving or other changes attributable to sugar intake in a diet to show no difference. There aren't enough calories being ingested even vaping 30 ml a day to do that.

I'm sorry for your problems. I hope you can maintain abstinence and your body can heal. I hope a gluten free diet helps with your other abdominal symptoms. If you feel for you as an individual vaping to be a bad idea, don't vape. Of course I wouldn't advise you to go back to cigarettes but maybe a patch, gum, or Snus would be better for you.

As to anyone reading this thread and are concerned about vaping, there likely are some negative health impacts, but nothing that we know of that comes close to the harm of smoking.

Also a note as the OP is fairly young there has been a marked increase in liver problems including cirrhosis and death among young adults over the last 10 years. It is all attributable to excess alcohol consumption in the age
group. That same high alcohol consumption will cause fatty liver and elevated liver enzymes which do not necessarily always lead to cirrhosis, but the trend of increased liver disease among young adults is a public health concern.
Mortality due to cirrhosis and liver cancer in the United States, 1999-2016: observational study

 

[AttyPops]

The article/study you linked also implied that nicotine itself can cause a FL effect. It then went on and vilified vaping specifically.

It would have been better had they had a group that used 0MG/ML aerosol to isolate the nic variable.

 

[CCVapes23]

While sucralose might have some negative impact, it does not affect blood glucose levels at all... not a bit. It is not sugar and foods with sucralose don't add any sugar to your diet, but it is 600x sweeter than sugar. I can't see how it would have any effect on fatty liver disease.

I guess the other component of vaping to consider is VG, generally the largest component of ejuice. VG is commonly used as a low glycemic sweetener in food and has shown no appreciable impact on blood sugar levels. As far as I can tell there just isn't a correlation there.

I'm sure you've been tested, but make sure you're not a Type 2 Diabetic or borderline, commonly referred to as pre-diabetic (and if your doctor hasn't tested you already... get a new doctor). Type 2 diabetes is the number one cause of non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. If you haven't been tested in a while, please check that out. And if you drink alcohol... don't, but I'm sure your doctor has already warned you.

He checked for it, and he said triglyceride levels aren’t anything to worry bout. It was like 104 or something


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[chellie]

I think this is link referenced (link purposely broken to avoid ECF rules infraction, please adjust to see article):
https://www .endocrine.org/news-room/2018/e-cigarettes-may-lead-to-accumulation-of-fat-in-the-liver

The interesting thing about this article (which I'm not convinced is at all accurate) is that they are placing the results of high fatty liver results on nicotine and not any other component of vaping. I would think they might focus on VG and the sugars present rather than nicotine.

The 2 other things that make me dubious of the results is that the researchers only used mice missing a gene that makes them more prone to fatty liver disease AND they fed the mice a diet of high fat and cholesterol before starting the testing with ecig vapor (amount of vapor not specified). Also, there was no mention in the article of how the control group of mice fared with the aerosol saline solution, although the unsaid inference is that they were fine, even though they were fed the same high fat/high cholesterol diet. It would be interesting to see how a control group of healthy mice without missing genes would have been affected.

The second thing I question is the amount of vapor from ecigs used. They had a high enough concentration of ecig vapor to reach the same level of nicotine concentration in the blood as a typical smoker. I would think it would be an excessive amount of vapor to reach those levels since , at least in my own experience, it takes much more vaping to reach those levels. This is unrealistic in my opinion.

The above being said, I am not a medical researcher, just a guy with a mod in hand. But this seems skewed and rather questionable. Perhaps those with a better background in medical research, and more complete analysis of the finding, including the control group of mice could shed more light on this.

My takeaway is that if a human was missing this important gene, any lifestyle change would be something to consider carefully, but it doesn't mean that this result could be construed to be a problem for all.

I had many of the same thoughts --- overall flawed or skewed.

We are not allowed to post links?

 

[Fidola13]

LOL ... just stumbled upon this thread and I find it totally funny as to what some folks worry about....

I mean this site has loads of folks who smoked for many years, then quit, and are now vaping but yet they still worry about what vaping may be doing to them. What's wrong with this picture?? Then you have many members who have never smoked and have always just vaped... Some of them are worried as well.... Well then I have a simple solution for all of you ---> QUIT VAPING if it worries you so much...

OMG well put! This drives me nuts! So now all of a sudden people who smoked for 20-40 years are all obsessed with their health and every little pimple, sore throat and bowel movements. Good for them but honest to god some of the idiotic symptoms that people attribute to vaping is just downright ridiculous.

As you said, if they’re concerned that vaping is causing them harm then stop vaping.

 

[AXIOM_1]

OMG well put! This drives me nuts! So now all of a sudden people who smoked for 20-40 years are all obsessed with their health and every little pimple, sore throat and bowel movements. Good for them but honest to god some of the idiotic symptoms that people attribute to vaping is just downright ridiculous.

As you said, if they’re concerned that vaping is causing them harm then stop vaping.

EXACTLY!! I have a TRUE story to tell you ... Normally I do not air personal/private things for others to read but I don't get along with one of my Brother's and so I could care less as far as he is concerned ---> I have an older Brother who I talked into vaping about 4 years ago as I was concerned about his health because I noticed that he continuously coughed and hacked. I was aware of how long he smoked and so it bothered me.... You have to first understand that this particular Brother of mine had smoked since he was in the Vietnam war... In other words, he smoked for almost 50 years....

To make a long story shorter, he got very sick last year and ended up in the hospital.... After testing they discovered he had pneumonia ... It was also discovered that he had COPD... Well guess what?? He is blaming his COPD on the three short years that he vaped!! He is also blaming me for getting him to start vaping ..... The amount of DENIAL and BLINDNESS in some people is truly astounding..... I mean doesn't he think that the 50 years of constant smoking may have been what caused his COPD??

 

[AttyPops]

^^^

 

[Katya]

I mean doesn't he think that the 50 years of constant smoking may have been what caused his COPD??

This reminds me of a CDC recruitment flyer from some years ago. I found my old post--the link is dead, of course, but I copied the survey questions. We had a lot of fun here with this one:

"http://www.ecigadvanced.com/blog/wp...Campaign-Recruitment-Flyer-All-Conditions.pdf

We are also looking for ex-smokers (age 20–60) who: ... • For at least a year, used e-cigarettes or smokeless tobacco while continuing to smoke some cigarettes; and • Thought using e-cigarettes or smokeless tobacco to cut back on some cigarettes would be good for your health; and • Despite cutting back, you were later diagnosed with a serious health condition."

That was a real flyer. I'm not making this up.

 

[Eskie]

EXACTLY!! I have a TRUE story to tell you ... Normally I do not air personal/private things for others to read but I don't get along with one of my Brother's and so I could care less as far as he is concerned ---> I have an older Brother who I talked into vaping about 4 years ago as I was concerned about his health because I noticed that he continuously coughed and hacked. I was aware of how long he smoked and so it bothered me.... You have to first understand that this particular Brother of mine had smoked since he was in the Vietnam war... In other words, he smoked for almost 50 years....

To make a long story shorter, he got very sick last year and ended up in the hospital.... After testing they discovered he had pneumonia ... It was also discovered that he had COPD... Well guess what?? He is blaming his COPD on the three short years that he vaped!! He is also blaming me for getting him to start vaping ..... The amount of DENIAL and BLINDNESS in some people is truly astounding..... I mean doesn't he think that the 50 years of constant smoking may have been what caused his COPD??

It is part of the "I'm not responsible" syndrome. Why place the decision on yourself for choosing to smoke for 50 years when you can blame some newfangled device you were told to use to stop smoking? You were just fine before told you had to change your habits.

 

[AttyPops]

You were just fine before told you had to change your habits.

Yep.
Correlation =/= causation. Just because you recently switched doesn't mean it was the cause. Just coincidental. Had he not switched, he would have come up with the same problems.

 

[Fidola13]

EXACTLY!! I have a TRUE story to tell you ... Normally I do not air personal/private things for others to read but I don't get along with one of my Brother's and so I could care less as far as he is concerned ---> I have an older Brother who I talked into vaping about 4 years ago as I was concerned about his health because I noticed that he continuously coughed and hacked. I was aware of how long he smoked and so it bothered me.... You have to first understand that this particular Brother of mine had smoked since he was in the Vietnam war... In other words, he smoked for almost 50 years....

To make a long story shorter, he got very sick last year and ended up in the hospital.... After testing they discovered he had pneumonia ... It was also discovered that he had COPD... Well guess what?? He is blaming his COPD on the three short years that he vaped!! He is also blaming me for getting him to start vaping ..... The amount of DENIAL and BLINDNESS in some people is truly astounding..... I mean doesn't he think that the 50 years of constant smoking may have been what caused his COPD??

Oh jeez! Try to do something good and now somehow you’re the bad guy!

 

[AXIOM_1]

Oh jeez! Try to do something good and now somehow you’re the bad guy!

exactly.... But, he is that way with everything..... Always blaming everyone else rather than himself .... Some folks are just like that..... Oh any by the way, since this is a "fatty liver" thread, I was diagnosed a couple of years ago with a fatty liver, but it certainly was not due to vaping.... I am a wine-maker and so I sample lots of wine..... I also drink the stuff each day.... My fatty liver is caused from alcohol consumption and not vaping.... Prolonged alcohol consumption is the leading cause of a fatty liver.... Next in line is diabetes and the intake of unhealthy type foods.....

Maybe I should figure out a way to BLAME my fatty liver on my Brother

 

[Zazie]

exactly.... But, he is that way with everything..... Always blaming everyone else rather than himself .... Some folks are just like that..... Oh any by the way, since this is a "fatty liver" thread, I was diagnosed a couple of years ago with a fatty liver, but it certainly was not due to vaping.... I am a wine-maker and so I sample lots of wine..... I also drink the stuff each day.... My fatty liver is caused from alcohol consumption and not vaping.... Prolonged alcohol consumption is the leading cause of a fatty liver.... Next in line is diabetes and the intake of unhealthy type foods.....

Maybe I should figure out a way to BLAME my fatty liver on my Brother

That's easy: your fatty liver was caused by the stress he inflicted on you by blaming you for encouraging him to vape.

 

[Baditude]

One of my best friends from high school recently reconnected with me on Face Book. Being an advocate for vaping and harm reduction, I post a lot of pro-vaping studies. Well, this friend was a former drug abuser and smoker who has stopped both the drug and cigarette use which he attributes to his faith in God. He said that I should stop vaping altogether because I'm still using an addictive drug -- nicotine. He also accuses me of cherry picking the studies that I post to suit my agenda.

Long story short, we have debated a lot on FB. I have tried to explain that the majority of studies in the US were funded by Big Pharm and were flawed. The studies from the UK are more noteworthy and not fake news. He'll have nothing to do with it. He's stubborn and narrow minded.

I almost always follow the rule of never getting involved in discussions involving politics or religeon on Face Book, and I was doing pretty good for myself until he brought up his religious views. I told him finally that he is free to believe what he wants, but do not try to force his beliefs onto me. Life is too short to sweat the small stuff.

 

[Fidola13]

Tell him to stop drinking coffee, tea and sodas. Caffeine’s addicting and a stimulant as well.

 

[kross8]

95% of your health is directly related to whatever you consumed /exposed yourself to over the years .

But nobody wants to take responsibility of those actions,,, they just want a pill or procedure to fix the problem.

 

[Car147]

Ah i see this thread has crossed the pond, similar thread in a UK forum hmmmm.

 

[Baditude]

Tell him to stop drinking coffee, tea and sodas. Caffeine’s addicting and a stimulant as well.

Oh, I brought that up, too. I even sent him a Harvard Med School study that said eating red meat increases the risk of cancer and heart disease. He seems to be avoiding me now. (shrugs shoulders)

<----- words to live by