Vaping for Science!

[amandapalmtree]

Hi Guys!

I want to apologize ahead of time for probably sounding like a total dork

My name is Amanda, and long story short, I am a graduate student interested in e-cigs. I have a research study design that essentially is trying to look at what makes vaping so appealing to former/current smokers. I plan on having people come in for a lab session where they use an e-cig and I measure some variables before and after vaping.

I was hoping some of you could recommend what type of vape I should use. I at least know that I want a "second generation" device, as those are popular and familiar among vapers. I also need to change the juice for each person--I want to use different levels of nicotine, and also match menthol preference. I'm going to be running over 100 people in this study, so what I use has to be cost-effective.

After doing some research on what parts are available, it looks like I have a few options. I could get one that has a refillable atomizer/cartomizer/whatever, and get some rubber disposable mouthpieces to use with each person. I'm worried, though, that cleaning these things might be a pain, and in order to have each person get the purest juice when they come in, there would be a lot of cleaning. Another option is to use pre-filled disposable cartomizers, but I'm not sure that these work with the devices that are most familiar/cool with regular vapers. But I honestly have no idea! Battery life is not important, as the vaping sessions will be short and there will be plenty of time to recharge in between people. I do want something with good nicotine delivery, similar to that of smoking.

Do any of you have recommendations? Again, I need to adjust nicotine content and menthol flavor for each of over 100 people coming in, while being mindful of my budget. These folks will be experienced vapers with smoking experience as well.Thank you all so so much!

 

[AXIOM_1]

Hello Amanda! I always sound like a dork ... I will bump the answer to others who are more familiar with hardware than I am. Nice to have you here.

 

[johnkong]

I have no experience with RDA's but you could have different builds at different ohms and cleaning would consist of just putting a different build, cheaper and i think it be better and having a constant variable...

 

[RandyF]

Recommendations are difficult without knowing what results you are seeking and what your budget is. If you plan on using experienced vapers, then your results will be skewed, as they will already have strong opinions on whatever devices you give them.

 

[NoFumus]

I also need to change the juice for each person

I'm not sure I understand your model, and why you would change the juice for each person. That seems like a lot of variables for the sample size.

It's seems obvious (maybe not) that you'd want a variable voltage/variable wattage device, which would allow you to set the power pretty exactly. If you just needed a variety of nic/menthol, then couldn't you just have a variety of tanks set up with those levels, and use the drip tip covers for sanitary purposes?

 

[MaenadMoogle]

You might want to stop into a local B&M and see what they use to do tastings. I know the one I go to has tiny ego type batteries, small refillable tanks and rubber mouthpieces.

I guess I'm thinking say you have people come in by groups of 10. You would need 10 tanks, 10 batteries, 100 mouthpieces. Between each group you'd charge batteries and clean tanks/change coils and juice. It wouldn't be the easiest, BUT it would be the closest to what people who vape use. Not a lot of people still use the disposable carts.

You miiiiiiiiiight also see if a local B&M would be willing to loan you their tasting supplies. My only concern with that would be that since it's a scientific study that could be seen as a bias? (I'm an english major, not sure how strict you science types are about borrowing things for studies)

I guess I'm confused about the premise of your study too though. . . if you're already using experienced vapers, why provide vaping gear at all? lol

 

[dcfluegel]

kanger subox mini kits - the kanger subtank mini that comes with it is easy to clean, you have several different coil head options for testing (1.5 ohm, 1.2 ohm, .5 ohm) and tanks are pretty easy to clean, replacement coil heads not overly expensive - may be able to work out a 'bulk buy' with a vendor like sweet-vapes... and could donate used equipment to the pay it forward treasure chest here after the study is concluded, to help share the love forward

 

[amandapalmtree]

Thank you all so much! To clarify a few things:

I'm looking to see how experienced vapers with smoking history respond to the nicotine in e-cigs in an objective way. There's a lot of research in this field right now that is survey-based, which is asking people what they think or how they are feeling. I can't give too much away, but I have created a design that will measure how people are responding to vaping in a more objective way. My hope is with this information, it will help understand the mechanisms that have allowed so many people to quit smoking or cut back on cigarettes through vaping. It's challenging to directly study this, as you all probably know, because of FDA regulations and yada yada.

I'm hoping this will cost me around $10/person. Everyone will come in individually. I did have an idea that I could have multiple tanks with each combination of my specifications, and just change out the mouthpiece or whatever for everyone that comes in.

In a perfect world, I would have people use their own vape, but everyone uses so many different types of things that I need to control for this by providing a device to use so I know everything about it and it is the same for everyone.

Thank you all again for your help! I'm learning a lot

 

[MaenadMoogle]

Oy $10 a person could be difficult unless you set up a deal with a supplier.

 

[dcfluegel]

mm - at $10/ person, with 100 people, that gives you $1000 budget? 10 kanger subox mini kits, extra coil heads, silicone drip tip covers, juice, 20 batteries, charger would come in under that number, I believe

heck, if they are coming in individually, you could do it with a couple of subox kits, multiple extra tanks, batteries, charger, juice and easily come in under that number

 

[MaenadMoogle]

Right, I forgot about the NOT needing a separate set up for each person. lol. My brain isn't all here today.

 

[Racehorse]

I need to adjust nicotine content and menthol flavor for each of over 100 people coming in

Using the standard nicotine ejuices, you have 0, 3, 6, 12, 18 and 24mg.

I see no reason to have more than those, and you can probably knock off the 0mg since you are trying to study nicotine effect right?

Get from mt baker vapor or vape wild or somewhere cheap.

So all you need are 5 delivery devices, and maybe an extra in case one doesn't work properly......with each of those 5 nicotine concentrations.........and 100+ throw-away mouthpieces should be used to cover those for the 100x people.

If you can wait on shipment, some place like Fasttech in china will be cheapest way to order the hardware.

Heck, if you told one of the big vendors what you were doing they might even kick in the ejuice for ya.

 

[RandyF]

I would suggest bringing in a couple very experienced vapers with full knowledge of the study to help you. We can throw ideas out there all day about what we personally think is best, but you need whatever best fits your study parameters, which can differ greatly depending on the experience you want to create.

 

[djsvapour]

I didn't get the entire idea, but avoid cig-a-likes and get a generic eGo/evod set-up.

The "eGo" e-cig is the basic refillable, or 2nd generation device.

Personally speaking, I think getting high(er) power 3rd generation kit (if that's what all this hardware is called) is not the way forward.

100 x eGo and clearomiser set-up - that'd be my choice.

(Prefilled cartomisers are to be avoided i.m.o.)

 

[evan le'garde]

Thank you all so much! To clarify a few things:

I'm looking to see how experienced vapers with smoking history respond to the nicotine in e-cigs in an objective way. There's a lot of research in this field right now that is survey-based, which is asking people what they think or how they are feeling. I can't give too much away, but I have created a design that will measure how people are responding to vaping in a more objective way. My hope is with this information, it will help understand the mechanisms that have allowed so many people to quit smoking or cut back on cigarettes through vaping. It's challenging to directly study this, as you all probably know, because of FDA regulations and yada yada.

I'm hoping this will cost me around $10/person. Everyone will come in individually. I did have an idea that I could have multiple tanks with each combination of my specifications, and just change out the mouthpiece or whatever for everyone that comes in.

In a perfect world, I would have people use their own vape, but everyone uses so many different types of things that I need to control for this by providing a device to use so I know everything about it and it is the same for everyone.

Thank you all again for your help! I'm learning a lot

Maybe you could try that study right here, right now, in this thread. Everyone here is vaping as we speak !.

 

[evan le'garde]

What confuses me about independent studies of the effects of vaping on vapers is why those guys don't just come to a place like ECF and ask everyone here. ECF has got 228,518 members and there are no limits to how many studies could be going on in this forum. But for some unknown reason these folks who do these studies want to do it behind closed doors where no one can see. We would like to see these studies being done in real time on tens of thousands of vapers. If there were ever a perfect place to perform a study on the effects of the electric alternative then ECF is it.

I'm sure almost every ECF member would agree, and that's tens of thousands of committed vapers

If there is anything you want to know about my experiences of vaping i'd be happy to take part in your study right now.

I'd also like to add that if you need information to help you kick this study off then why don't you ask those 100 people for it ?. Seems silly to come to ECF and ask vapers for helpful information then not ask them, while you are here, about their experiences of vaping.

 

[Susan~S]

In a perfect world, I would have people use their own vape, but everyone uses so many different types of things that I need to control for this by providing a device to use so I know everything about it and it is the same for everyone.

In a perfect world, everyone using the same devise would work for everyone, as far as quitting smoking.

But that's not the case. The reason so many people are able to give up smoking (using e-cigarettes), is their ability to find a setup that works for them.

• Be it low powered or high powered (this greatly affects the amount of vapor put out & mg nicotine someone uses).
  
• Be it tight airflow or airy airflow
• Be it mouth-2-lung or direct to lung inhailing (and choosing the hardware that allows them to do one or the other or both)
  
• Be it regular nicotine or NET (naturally extracted tobacco) or some other type of nicotine (can't remember what that is).
• Be it PG/VG or just PG or just VG.

The reason so many have quit smoking (by vaping) IMHO, centers around choice & options.

There are 1000's of stories, all of them different. I've been vaping almost 9 years. Learned the "tricks of the trade" through youtube. Didn't have time for forums and what I was using was working great for me.

Joined ECF 1.5 years ago as I had a lot of time (my situation changed) and was interested in what others had to say. Spend most of my time here in "new members" answering questions and providing links on anything vape related: hardware, battery safety, DIY, juice.

 

[skoony]

a simple ego/vision style battery with a vision CE5 clearomizer and
or iclear16 at 1.8 to 2.1 ohms should be sufficient.
for in lab testing these would be affordable and usable
for anyone who vapes at least for the limited amount
of time they will be used in the lab.
an e-juice some where between 8 to 12 mg per ml
should be good enough to measure nicotine in the system
with out having to resort to any extravagant testing
techniques.
the more advanced box mods and such have a place in vaping
but your average vaper is not using them. at least 80% and probably
a lot more vapers do not use the more advanced systems despite
what you might glean from reading these forums.
regards
mike

 

[DoubleEwe]

@amandapalmtree
How many people will you be testing at a time?
- obviously you only need this number of sets of equipment.

You could try to approach a juice manufacturer to 'sponsor' the study, that would reduce costs considerably.

Also once you have decided on the equipment you will be using, you could also approach the manufacturer directly, explaining your plan and goals, being good for vaping in general and all that jazz, they may also help you out with reduced equipment cost etc.

Just some thoughts.

Any more information you can offer regarding the experiment?

 

[stevegmu]

It would seem more effective to have test subjects who are smokers who are not vapers, than those who regularly vape, to determine what is appealing. A simple survey among already vapers would answer your question...