Speaking for me (25+ year smoker) and my mother (40+ year smoker who tried many things to try and smoke -- all of which failed), we have no desire or need to smoke traditional cigs since quitting last week. We normally would be off-the-walls by now but are calm and satisfied with our ecigs.
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What are you talking about. I have been vaping for 2 days now and I do not want a cigarette. In fact, IT IS A MIND GAME. It's ALL IN YOUR HEAD. YOU NEED WILLPOWER. If you lack willpower, then to back to smoking right now.
Only the strong survive...and don't die of lung cancer. Then again, WHAT DOESN'T CAUSE CANCER NOW A DAYS...
You need to not be so narrow minded. I, like many others I'm sure, was amazed at the original post made by Kate. It offered an answer for the torment I am currently going through. I've been vaping since March and haven't had an analog since the first of May. I would say that any physical habit had long been overcome.
I do not want to smoke, I need to smoke. When I first started vaping I was using 24mg nic juice. I was still having cravings after a month without a cigarette. I started having the classic withdrawal symptoms. So I increased the nic juice strength to slightly less than 36mg. This seemed to take care of the withdrawal symptoms but new health problems began. I began having IBS, acid reflux, and GURD. No amount of medicine my Doctor tried had any effect at all. I explained everything to my gastro doc and I told him that I was probably getting too much nicotine. That was the only thing that made cents. So i diluted the nic juice to about 18mg for 2 weeks and all the gastro ulcer and GURD are gone. But now the withdrawal symptoms have returned, including the depression.
These withdrawal problems are exactly why my past attempts to quit have failed. Somehow without cigarettes a chemical imbalance happens. I'm dammed if I do and dammed if I don't. Somehow I'm going to have to find a doctor who understands what I'm going through and has a solution. Otherwise I will have to return to cigarettes.
Kevin
While I have not had the irritability, restlessness, and general miserable disposition I've had previously when quitting analogs, I did gain about ten pounds, which is exactly as much as I gained when quitting analogs. This time, though, that weight gain isn't accompanied by a sour disposition that probably turned off more people than I know, and to my surprise, I've been propositioned more times since my weight gain than before it.
So maybe it's just me who has an unrealistic estimate of my ideal weight (I'm still well within recommended guidelines). But I'll take that in exchange for not coughing and hacking at night, keeping me awake, or burn holes in my clothes and upholstery.
You'll get my Prodigy when you can pry it from my cold, dead hands....
Cheers,
~~Cheryl
So maybe it's just me who has an unrealistic estimate of my ideal weight (I'm still well within recommended guidelines). But I'll take that in exchange for not coughing and hacking at night, keeping me awake, or burn holes in my clothes and upholstery.
You'll get my Prodigy when you can pry it from my cold, dead hands....
Cheers,
~~Cheryl
While I have not had the irritability, restlessness, and general miserable disposition I've had previously when quitting analogs, I did gain about ten pounds, which is exactly as much as I gained when quitting analogs. This time, though, that weight gain isn't accompanied by a sour disposition that probably turned off more people than I know, and to my surprise, I've been propositioned more times since my weight gain than before it.
So maybe it's just me who has an unrealistic estimate of my ideal weight (I'm still well within recommended guidelines). But I'll take that in exchange for not coughing and hacking at night, keeping me awake, or burn holes in my clothes and upholstery.
You'll get my Prodigy when you can pry it from my cold, dead hands....
Cheers,
~~Cheryl
I'm not sure what has changed to cause my problems. In 1973 when my wife got pregnant with our Son I was 22 and had been smoking since I was 13. I decided that I needed to quit. I set the pack of cigarettes on the top of my dresser and quit cold turkey. I had no problems at all with withdrawal. It just worked and I successfully quit smoking.
Six years later I was involved in a very stressful work situation and I got started again. Four times since that day I have tried quiting and everytime it ended just like this one is going. Right now I don't want a cigarette but I need whatever the cigarette provides that I am not getting. I wish I knew the answer.
Kevin
Hey Kevin;
I hear you loud and clear about the GERD(had an esophageal tear in 2000- which left me with GERD which was eventually stopped altogether with PPI's(proton pump inibitors) mainly Prevacid - It totally went away-even without meds- eventually, for years, UNTIL I started vaping). I couldn't figure this out, it didn't make sense when I did the math and figured out what I was vaping compared to what I was smoking, the overall daily nicotine amount was actually lower now that I'm vaping. It's not too much nicotine, well not exactly. I'm a pharmacist myself and I went to my family doctor and, together, we eventually came to a conclusion after a good deal of thought. Vaping, although similar, is not exactly the same as smoking. When you smoke, all the nicotine remains in the combustion gases and, therefore, the only route into your body is through your pulmonary alvoeli(lungs). However, Vaping produces a vapor(which is technically not a gas-smoke) it is a microparticulate liquid phase suspended in the air. The nicotine is dissolved within this suspension and, therefore, deposits not only in ur lungs, but also along your entire upper respiratory tract(mouth, gums, tongue, larynx, pharynx-you get the picture). As with saliva and mucous, you end up SWALLOWING this deposited nicotine(which is something that would not happen when smoking). So it's not the level of nicotine, but the fact that, when you swallow, it it making direct topical contact on the cells of your lower esophageal sphincter, causing the smooth muscle of the sphincter to relax, which is what is actually, directly, causing the heartburn. One thing I did notice that confirmed this, at least in my opinion, was when I would get an accidental mouthful of eliquid from a flooded atty. A good portion of this(no matter how much I tried to spit out) was swallowed, and would almost immediately cause GERDlike discomfort.
What to do about this?
#1 Stop vaping and go back to smoking(Not an option for me)
#2 Try your best to avoid any situation where you directly taste eliquid in your mouth(flooded atty's, etc...) along with
#3 Go back on whatever GERD therapy worked for you in the past. Whether that be dietary measures or drug therapy. For me one 20mg omeprazole(prilosec) tablet daily totally stopped the GERD symptoms. For you it seems you may want to get a bit more aggressive with the pharmacological/dietary therapy. Talk with doctor and explain the situation with him. He/she may be able to come up with a viable alternative now that you think you may have pinned down the cause. Good Luck.
markarich159,
Thanks for your insight on this. I am currently taking the maximum dosage of Zegred (or however you spell it) and watching what I eat. I will take notice of the accidental contact with the juice. I have the reflux under control now but my nic withdrawal symtoms have returned. I'm going to slightly increase my nic juice strength for the next few days.
I have to beat this thing somehow. I have had such an improvement in my health since I quit smoking I hate to think I might have to go back. I tried to quit smoking in 1986 and failed. That triggered the chemical imbalance that began my acid reflux problems. I had a gastric ulcer, peptic ulcer, and nothing we tried would make it go away. Finally my MD prescribed Doxepin. Like a miracle the reflux went completely away. I had no further problems with reflux until 2004. I had a 5 line heart bypass in 2004. I tried to quit smoking after surgery for about 4 months. I was assalted so hard with withdrawal symptoms that I gave in and went back to smoking. Failure is a bad emotion to deal with. That attempt at quiting triggered the acid reflux return. I had pneumonia from acid aspiration twice. We tried everything and finally the maximum dose of Nexium seemed to take care of it. I did develop pre COPD as a result of all of this too.
The current attempt at quitting has now triggered the return of the acid reflux and I am already taking the maxium dose of Zegred. The lung problems has completely gone away. I feel better overall physically since quitting smoking. If I can just lick this gastro problem.
I have an appointment with my GP tomorrow. I hope he can think of something else we can do.
Thanks for your insight.
Kevin
Thanks for your insight on this. I am currently taking the maximum dosage of Zegred (or however you spell it) and watching what I eat. I will take notice of the accidental contact with the juice. I have the reflux under control now but my nic withdrawal symtoms have returned. I'm going to slightly increase my nic juice strength for the next few days.
I have to beat this thing somehow. I have had such an improvement in my health since I quit smoking I hate to think I might have to go back. I tried to quit smoking in 1986 and failed. That triggered the chemical imbalance that began my acid reflux problems. I had a gastric ulcer, peptic ulcer, and nothing we tried would make it go away. Finally my MD prescribed Doxepin. Like a miracle the reflux went completely away. I had no further problems with reflux until 2004. I had a 5 line heart bypass in 2004. I tried to quit smoking after surgery for about 4 months. I was assalted so hard with withdrawal symptoms that I gave in and went back to smoking. Failure is a bad emotion to deal with. That attempt at quiting triggered the acid reflux return. I had pneumonia from acid aspiration twice. We tried everything and finally the maximum dose of Nexium seemed to take care of it. I did develop pre COPD as a result of all of this too.
The current attempt at quitting has now triggered the return of the acid reflux and I am already taking the maxium dose of Zegred. The lung problems has completely gone away. I feel better overall physically since quitting smoking. If I can just lick this gastro problem.
I have an appointment with my GP tomorrow. I hope he can think of something else we can do.
Thanks for your insight.
Kevin
Hey Kevin:
Zegerid is simply Prilosec(Omeprazole) and Sodium Bicarb combined(It's also an immediate release formulation, so it might not be lasting throughout the entire day depending on how you're taking it). You may want to ask your GP to try a run of Prevacid or, better yet, Kapidex(which is just the more active isomer of Prevacid- and controlled release for all day protection). I've tried them both, and Prevacid/Kapidex has always worked much better then Prilosec/Zegerid for me. Doxepin can be used(as an off label indication) for Gastrohyperacidity disorders because of it's fairly strong Histamine(H2) receptor blocking(that's how agents like pepcid and zantac work). The prevacid/Kapidex effect, in theory should be much stronger then doxepin's effect, but each person is different. If it worked in the past, you may want to try the Dozepin again. But whatever you do, make sure you stay away from smoking again(due to the COPD and Heart problems). Sit down with your GP and together you'll figure out a plan to stop the Gastro side effects. Good Luck
Zegerid is simply Prilosec(Omeprazole) and Sodium Bicarb combined(It's also an immediate release formulation, so it might not be lasting throughout the entire day depending on how you're taking it). You may want to ask your GP to try a run of Prevacid or, better yet, Kapidex(which is just the more active isomer of Prevacid- and controlled release for all day protection). I've tried them both, and Prevacid/Kapidex has always worked much better then Prilosec/Zegerid for me. Doxepin can be used(as an off label indication) for Gastrohyperacidity disorders because of it's fairly strong Histamine(H2) receptor blocking(that's how agents like pepcid and zantac work). The prevacid/Kapidex effect, in theory should be much stronger then doxepin's effect, but each person is different. If it worked in the past, you may want to try the Dozepin again. But whatever you do, make sure you stay away from smoking again(due to the COPD and Heart problems). Sit down with your GP and together you'll figure out a plan to stop the Gastro side effects. Good Luck
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Boy, I'm glad to have you as a friend.
When the reflux symptoms returned in 06 the gastro Dr. immediately prescribed Nexium which my insurance company objected to (because that drug was being over-prescribed) and they agreed to asaphex , I'm not too good at spelling medication, which seemed to work. Then the insurance company decided that prevacid was the current proper drug. Later they went back to Nexium and I began taking 40mg af nexium and that worked until this recent episode about 1 month after I quit smoking in May of this year. I had several GURD events in June and July that's when I was put on Zegerid and it actually worked for a month. My GP then upped the Doxepin to 300mg and that worked for a couple of weeks. That's where I am now.
I will mention our conversation tomorrow when I see my GP. Maybe he will want to try Kapidex. Something has to work! My heart doctor in 2004 looked me right in the eye and said that if I didn't quit smoking I would not live more than 10 years. That was just 5 years ago.
Kevin
Ask your GP about possibly switching to Prevacid/Kapidex and then adding on a traditional H2 antagonist(Pepcid or Zantac - both have cheap generics that ur insurance should not have a problem with adding on as dual therapy). Doxepin does the same thing as Pepcid/Zantac but has many more side effects. I've seen this dual therapy work with many patients with recalcitrant GERD.
Nexium is to Prilosec what Kapidex is to Prevacid(the exact same chemical just the more bilogically active isomer). Aciphex and Protonix round out the group(they're all chemically known as PPI's-proton pump inhibitors). As per clinical studies, Prevacid/Kapidex is supposedly found to be the most effective. Again, good luck.
Nexium is to Prilosec what Kapidex is to Prevacid(the exact same chemical just the more bilogically active isomer). Aciphex and Protonix round out the group(they're all chemically known as PPI's-proton pump inhibitors). As per clinical studies, Prevacid/Kapidex is supposedly found to be the most effective. Again, good luck.
I had a good visit with my GP today. We made a lot of progress discussing my nicotine issues. I'm going to switch to the generic version of Zegerid. He agrees that I should keep trying to reach the optimum dosage of nic juice. He suggested that I might try to supplement my nicotine with a patch or gum to see if this would help me determine the proper dosage. It's nice to have a doctor who is open to trying alternatives methods to quit smoking.
Kevin
Kevin
This is a very fascinating thread. Not to get too OT about the MAOIs and such, but I posted this link on another thread that I found, about freebase Nicotine:
Freebase Nicotine The Cigarette Drug | Revellian
It's also being discussed on the pH values/harshness thread. Might be something to also consider.
Freebase Nicotine The Cigarette Drug | Revellian
It's also being discussed on the pH values/harshness thread. Might be something to also consider.
Well I haven't smoked in over A week, and I don't miss it at all, now that I'm vaping.
So far for me it has been completely sufficient means of replacing tobacco cigs. The first two days when I had my regular cigarette rituals carved into me, I would instinctively think "Oh, I need a cigarette, then I quickly trained into the grab the vaporizer and toke away." Like on my drive to and from work. I vape as soon as I get in the car, stop toking on it where I would usually flick the ..... Hold it until I got to the next "checkpoint" to get lit up and start vaping until I arrive at my destination. I had read how people were complaining about cigarettes were nasty after just a few days off of them. So I got my GF to let me take a drag off of hers and it was freaking nasty. I really don't want to taste that again. I thought it was all fluff about it being nasty after just a short period, and figured it would be like a touch from heaven but alas it was nasty. Not to mention the winter is coming and I can vape INSIDE. Then I also like all the flavor options. Vaping is like 100x better than analogs by a mile.
I'd agree Kevin that is the crux of the issue. I'm also inclined to believe as TB has mentioned, that the common denominator here or the missing link ifyou will, may be found in carbon monoxide. Which in combination with nicotine make the tobacco cigarette one potent device.
In fact the more I investigate this, the more convinced I am. If you think about it, the buzz one experiences on tobacco cigarettes, the lightheadedness, if you will, (especially noticable after the first tobacco cigarette of the day) doesn't have as much to do with nicotine as it does with nicotine in combination with carbon monoxide which causes oxygen starvation while delivering concentrated nicotine in a rapid space of time (milliseconds) Something significant happens on a cellular level to the brains pleasure receptors. The same effect is just not achievable by the very nature of the e-cig due to non combustion properties. However as a nicotine delivery device it excels.
But this is not enough because it doesn't tickle the pleasure receptors which we as lifelong smokers got used to, which over time no matter how many e-cigs or snus one uses, I submit that cellular memory triggers cravings in many former users for the tobacco cigarette/pipe/cigar.
Read the following article and subsitute Tobacco Cigarette Nicotine for ....... and you get the picture.
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Vaporista,
That was an eye opening article. It fits right in with our discussion. I wonder if a lot of us are going to fail in our attempt to quit long term. I am well aware that I am addicted to cigarettes and like drug and alcocol addiction it is a life long addiction. It would be nice if they could develop a magic pill we could take to end this problem.
Kevin
That was an eye opening article. It fits right in with our discussion. I wonder if a lot of us are going to fail in our attempt to quit long term. I am well aware that I am addicted to cigarettes and like drug and alcocol addiction it is a life long addiction. It would be nice if they could develop a magic pill we could take to end this problem.
Kevin
I've heard nicotine is the only chemical to latch to the brain. Have not done research myself to verify, nor plan to do so in the near future. If someone else wants to, I would suggest it. Taking cigarettes out of the picture, every other craving I've had were due to recent dosage. Such as fast food, pills, alcohol, weed, chocolate, etc. Hell, sex even. After a few weeks, if I go without them, I could care less about the next time I get the next fix. Cigarettes on the other hand...the most I've gone is a year and half, and still craved it. For me, it's the physical act...and probably the nicotine alone. Old habits die hard, I still the back door to let my dogs out in the morning even though I haven't owned a dog in over a year.
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